What do model builders overlook that could improve their models?

[jbwelda]

I am really bugged that one of my recent builds exhibits one of the previously mentioned problems...darn tires don't fit the rims or at least they don't seem to but I know they did, at one point. its painfully obvious and the worst part is they are epoxied on there tight; add to that that the wheels themselves are wrong for the car so the whole thing is a mess. and don't think that I don't know about it! right now I am wondering how successful I might be dremelling out the inside of the wheel around the aluminum tubing axle. its gonna have to be that drastic because otherwise too much force on the wheels is going to tear the interior apart and I don't want that. I have tried all the gentle ways I can think of to at least coax that tire up onto the wheel. the more I look at it the more likely it is I will have to tear it apart and redo it, somehow.

bummer. well, ya live and ya learn.

jb

[MyBradKeselowski]

How about front and rear side marker lights?

I have seen so many models where the builder will have the side marker lights painted or they will BMF

them. 1:1 cars don't come from the factory with paint on the side marker lights they are all amber and red.

PLEASE !! PLEASE !! Let's paint those side marker lights !! It also makes the model more realistic.

[blunc]

hey now...don't go raging on painted marker lights, some builders are having fun painting them body color.

(don't mind me, I just felt like poking some thin skinned porcupines...I can feel their quills standing up already.)

[blunc]

I am really bugged that one of my recent builds exhibits one of the previously mentioned problems...darn tires don't fit the rims or at least they don't seem to but I know they did, at one point. its painfully obvious and the worst part is they are epoxied on there tight; add to that that the wheels themselves are wrong for the car so the whole thing is a mess. and don't think that I don't know about it! right now I am wondering how successful I might be dremelling out the inside of the wheel around the aluminum tubing axle. its gonna have to be that drastic because otherwise too much force on the wheels is going to tear the interior apart and I don't want that. I have tried all the gentle ways I can think of to at least coax that tire up onto the wheel. the more I look at it the more likely it is I will have to tear it apart and redo it, somehow.

bummer. well, ya live and ya learn.

jb

JB, if this is a finished build, I suggest noting the problem and move on to your next build. this is a minor issue that occurred after the build was done...no need to fix unless you're gonna put it in the GSLMCC.

I have read that some tires will react/melt to the plastic in the wheels unless the wheel plastic has been sealed or blocked with BMF, this may be what happened.

[Tom Geiger]

How about front and rear side marker lights?

I have seen so many models where the builder will have the side marker lights painted or they will BMF

them. 1:1 cars don't come from the factory with paint on the side marker lights they are all amber and red.

PLEASE !! PLEASE !! Let's paint those side marker lights !! It also makes the model more realistic.

Like this? I'll add a tip. Both the side light and tail light are BMFed and then colored with a Sharpie. Note that a Sharpie just on the body color won't look right since the green underneath will still be seen under the thin ink. So that's why I BMF the piece first.

[Tom Geiger]

I am really bugged that one of my recent builds exhibits one of the previously mentioned problems...darn tires don't fit the rims or at least they don't seem to but I know they did, at one point.

JB, if this is a finished build, I suggest noting the problem and move on to your next build. this is a minor issue that occurred after the build was done...no need to fix unless you're gonna put it in the GSLMCC.

I have read that some tires will react/melt to the plastic in the wheels unless the wheel plastic has been sealed or blocked with BMF, this may be what happened.

I have also noticed this on a couple of 25 year old builds. One is AMT and the other Revell and both were modern era pressings, new kits when built. I have noticed that the tires have shrunk on the rims, sitting back exposing the lip just like in your photo.

I don't think this is the same thing as the ancient tires that melted rims etc. This is shrinkage in the tire itself as the vinyl dries out, not the tire causing a reaction to other materials touching it.

[MyBradKeselowski]

At least you painted them and they look realistic...lol

I like the color on the Chevette makes it look like that time period.

Great looking Chevette ! !

:rolleyes:

[WigWag Workshop]

Talk about a can of worms here!

Missed details (and I confess to them, OK?)

1) Wheels: Valve stems AND valve caps, along with wheel weights (you know, those lead weights for balancing wheels!)

2) Exhaust hangers--those extensions which keep exhaust pipes and mufflers from simply rattling loose and dragging on the pavement!

3) The wires hooking up headlights and turn signals

4) Gearshift linkages

5) headlight and other underhood wiring harnesses

6) Speedometer cables

7) Tail light wiring

8) brake lines, including the flexible hoses from frame or body to backing plates

9) emergency/parking brake handles at the dashboard

10) gearshift linkage

11) Clutch and brake pedal linkage

12) Fuel lines from tank to fuel pump, fuel pump to carburetor

13) Power steering lines

14) Brake lines (even ,master cylinders and the lines from that!) to wheel cylinders

15) PCV lines

16) Underhood wiring harnesses in general

17) On opening doors, the rather thin (no more than 3/8 inch edges of the door skin rolled and crimped.

18) Door lock buttons

19) Headlight wiring inside front fenders

20) Hood latches and hinges

21) Front seat adjustment levers when opening the doors]]

22) B- and C-pillar shapes when opening doors

23) headliner shapes

]

24) Internal windshield/back glass/door and quarter window reveals

25) Dome lights when the kit does not include them

26) Vacuum lines for cars having vacuum-operated windshield wipers

27) Windshield wiper motors on the likes of Model A's through 1936 Fords

28) Mechanical brake pull rods and cross-shafts of stock Model T's and Model A's

29) Speedometer cable

30) Rotary door lock details

31) Black rubber windshield wiper elements

32) Choke cables

33) Heater control cables

34) Air conditioner lines

35) Power steering hydraulic lines

36) Heater lines

37) Temperature instrument line

38) Oil pressure line

39) Ammeter wire

40) Automatic transmission dipstick

41) Engine oil dipstick

42) Heater hoses

43) Exhaust pipe/muffler clamps

44) Exposed headlight and taillight wiring on pre-1935 cars

45 Horns on cars which model kits omit them (and the wiring)

46) Bijur chassis oiling systems on Classic luxury cars that had them

47) Leather or metal "wraps" on leaf springs for luxury cars from the 20's and 30's

48) Underhood wiring harnesses in general

49) Ignition wires to ingition coils

50) Wires to generator or alternator

I've probably missed a bunch, so feel free to add to the list!

Art

This is an AWESOME check list! Not saying that everything on the list, would be done on a single build, but adding a few of these on different builds. This post opened my eyes, and has provided some inspiration to try some of these.

[sjordan2]

One thing I would add to Art's excellent list is to use a very fine-point pen to add rubber seals around window frames, exterior and/or interior, but only when they're visible on the 1:1 car; depending on kit scale and practicality, it would be cool to do the same with felt window channels.

Just remember, the idea of this thread is to propose – but not at all to demand – that there are all kinds of optional steps that can be done to come as close to a 1:1 car as possible, but not as a necessary thing. All of these observations come from studying the real cars to begin with.

Edited August 11, 2014 by sjordan2

[VW93]

An excellent thread with a lot of great tips.

I've picked up a few tips that I'll try to incorporate on my next build.

[John Goschke]

On replica stock American cars or period builds before 1963; CLEAR front parking light/turn signal lenses, AMBER for 1963 and after (with a few exceptions where the BULB was amber and the lens clear.)

Check your references!

[zenrat]

Don't forget to put some cigarette ends in the ashtray.

[ZTony8]

Drive shafts! I don't know how many cars I've looked at while judging contests that don't have the drive shafts installed.Beats me why the builders thought that leaving it off would make a better model.

[Tom Geiger]

Drive shafts! I don't know how many cars I've looked at while judging contests that don't have the drive shafts installed.Beats me why the builders thought that leaving it off would make a better model.

Maybe they're planning on towing it?

[jbwelda]

>Don't forget to put some cigarette ends in the ashtray.

only try to make them to scale...those look to be about an inch diameter!

jb

[Belugawrx]

>Don't forget to put some cigarette ends in the ashtray.

only try to make them to scale...those look to be about an inch diameter!

jb

Nice try tho

I like 'em.........

The filters are the true shade of nico burnt orangey yellow...!!

And they are premium smokes with the hollow filter!!!

Nice job

Cheers

[southpier]

no roaches?

[Belugawrx]

no roaches?

C'mon man!...

you know those go under the seat!?!

Cheers

[southpier]

decals: trim the clear border away!

just like plastic flash, the clear outline of the decal backing is a jump-out-lookit-me on the finished surface.

doesn't have to be trimmed exactly the shape of the design, but remove enough from the easy areas to break up the outline.

[microwheel]

OK, I'm sure I'll open a can of worms here, but I thought I'd chime in with my two cents worth. There are a lot of great tips and advice in this thread that's for sure. But there also seems to be a bit of bashing directed at those who love detailing and those that don't. Here is my feelings on both.

I remember as a kid back in the mid 60's, my brother and I buying a tube of testors glue and a few model kits and building them right out of the box with no paint and no cleanup work for flashing and ejector pins, or mold lines. Heck we never thought to even buy one of those cheap plastic throw away hobby knives. I mean we twisted the parts off the trees and glued em together. We didn't even care about fit. Afterwards when we got them built we would play with them like match box cars (for those of you that don't remember match box cars.. think hot wheels). That was the extent of what we knew about model cars.

Fast forward to my early 30's back in the late 80's. A friend of mine was into building model Semi Trucks. He would pretty much build them out of the box, but he would by spray can paint and at least paint the bodies with that, and then the old little bottles of testors paints and brushes for hand painting the smaller stuff. But still there was lots of flashing and mold lines everywhere. I still knew nothing about model building, but he got me interested in trying to see what I could do. So I bought a couple of model car kits, a hobby knife, some spay can paint, a few paint brushes and little bottles of testors pants, and sat down one evening and built one of the model cars. I placed news paper on the kitchen table and sprayed the body, and when it was dry to the touch, I built the kit up. At that point I had no cares about finger prints in the paint, flashing, or mold lines.

I had another friend come over the next day, that I never knew was into building models, that sat down and told me about a club he was in for model car builders (at that time I didn't know they existed), and we talked for hours that evening about the hobby. I joined the club that weekend and attended the meeting with him. I even took my recently built glue bomb with me to show them what I had done. They didnt pick apart my model and tell me how crappy it was, instead they gave me pointers and ideas on what things I could get to make my basic model building skills better. And that was the key.... They concentrated on help with my basic skills.

Now all these years letter, I have found out a lot through trial and error as well as from help and tips from other model builders who have shared their techniques with me. Over the years, I have built for contests, for myself, and even been commissioned by others to build for profit. Back in the early to mid 90's I had builds covered in model car magazines,, custom car magazines, hot rod magazines and even been judged by some top notch pro real car builders, such as Boyd Coddington. But none of that meant as much to me as seeing the finished product of something I did with my own two hands sitting on my shelf, or hearing my wife tell me she likes how it turned out.

What Im getting at is this. If, all those years ago, the guys in that club would have picked my glue bomb apart, and did nothing but made fun of, or told me how bad it was, I would have walked away from the hobby never to return.

There are a lot of, new to the hobby, builders, here on this site, and at the local hobby clubs, and even at contests (as it was for me once). And for me, even though I have been doing this for a long time, I still am learning something all the time about building models, and a lot of it comes from trying new things, and failing at it at first. Some of these new builders will learn, just like some of us that have been doing it for awhile, give them time to develop and encourage them. When they try their hand at extra detailing, remember, they will get better. If your an experienced builder, don't forget where you were when you started. The model industry is struggling to compete for the young people these days as it is. Especially with the video game market and smart phones, and Facebook.

When you see someone who isn't as skilled as you, who posts their model on here or elsewhere, or are at a contest and see a model that you feel doesn't deserve to be on a table beside yours, just remember, you were that person once. And we need all the new modelers we can get to keep the hobby going.

I still make my share of mistakes model building, and I don't claim to be as good as some I see on here, but I keep learning and I keep building for the love of it and so do all of you who build, be you a top level highly skilled detailer, or the modeler who loves to build out of the box.

So to the skilled detail builders, I say, if you don't want someone that doesn't add a ton of detail to their models, telling you, your not having fun, and your over doing it, then don't knock them for not adding the level of detail you think they should. Give then tips, help them learn. But don't complain about what they aren't doing yet. Or what they might leave out, or what they might have forgot to do. Giving them tips helps them, bashing their builds doesn't.

And for those of you who build more simplistically, believe me when I tell you, those of us who like to go all out and add lots of detail on a model, are having our share of fun doing it as well. We have gotten where we are, by trying new things and testing new products, and researching subjects to build. We are here to help you if you want it. Just like we help each other to continually improve.

This is just my two cents, and I know its a little off the main thread topic. It just bothered me to read some of the back and forth bashing that was going on. And I wanted to remind everyone that we are in this hobby, all of us, high level detailers and basic builders alike, for the love of it.

Edited August 14, 2014 by microwheel

[DR JAY]

I didn't see this mentioned (If It was, I must have missed it!), but something I call "The Reality Of Scale" is sometimes lacking. I am still sometimes guilty myself, but am unaware until I look at pictures I have taken of my work.

Specific areas have been mentioned--hoses and high tension leads (Plug wires...) that look HUGE are the most common issues, but I would like to add some others..

Aftermarket/scratchbuilt parts out of scale--Those Accel "Supercoils"--you know; the large yellow ones with the tan tops that were originally used on large gas powered buses and were grey--shouldn't be larger than the 4 barrel carb on the intake manifold. Those coils look great when detailed, but when attached to a 1/25 engine they look somewhat cartoonish. Same goes for Multiple spark ignition boxes. I am cheap, so I try to build that stuff myself. I have had to make more than one attempt at stuff like that sometimes due to the almost-finished product being too large or small . Aftemarket pulleys look good, but when the machined aluminum part scales out to something that sticks out to the point a fan no longer fits or it looks like the front of an AMC 327 engine, my eye is immediately drawn to the inaccuracy. The same goes for rubber o-rings for belts...belts aren't round or thicker than heater hoses.

Vent Windows--Shouldn't be body colour. Also, they are always cast too thick and with no detail. Sand 'em down a bit so that they aren't the same width as the A pillars. Even a vent window latch would be a welcome addition.

Roll cages that are too large and don't fit right-- I build primarily vintage drag and Stock car models and know how much work it is to build cages from scratch, so why not make it fit snug inside the roof and A pillars. Using the "Right" diameter tubing also ensures that the cage doesn't look like it was made from drive shafts.

Too Much Detail--when items are out of scale to start with, adding too many of them makes the result look like a Deals Wheels model. I understand the need to make a model "Pop" on the table for judging, but in my eye too much of anything tends to be gaudy--not flashy. Brake plumbing is a welcome addition to any model, but no manufacturer used tubing that scaled to 1/2 inch or fitting nuts that scaled to 3/4 inch in 1:1.

And, Finally;

Not Going "All The Way" with detail that has been started--You've made shift linkages, carb linkages and wired the engine...BUT: the "wiring" terminates at holes drilled into the firewall or component itself...there are no terminals or nuts, just a red bell wire, insulation and all, pushed into the top of a battery or the back of an alternator, and usually the wire is way too big. Shifter and carb linkages are a cool scratchbuilt detail, but a piece of wire bent at a "Curved" 90 degrees and stuck in a hole drilled in the carb or transmission side cover detracts from the overall appearance, especially if the throttle linkage is larger than the heater hoses.

Now: this is just a response based on personal taste and observation, not an attempt to bash anyone's work or skills. This is a hobby, after all, and should be fun. My personal preferences come from a lifetime around automobiles, both stock and performance, as well as 25 years as a professional technician. I choose to add all of the detail that a 1:1 car has and that doesn't mean that everyone should do the same. I have tried to build box-stock, but even the addition of plug wires led to more details and before I knew it I was sitting at the bench adding ignition keys and headlight wiring and circuit breakers. I believe that anyone following this thread could take a tip or two to improve their builds for themselves but they should always remember that unless it's a build for a contest table, they are building for their own reasons and satisfaction. Condemnation from so-called "rivet counters" about not adding details they themselves would is of little consequence. After all; WHO actually built it? Keep improving detail to enlarge your arsenal of skills for future builds, not to appease the critics. I believe this thread to be beneficial to everyone, both novice and hobby room hermit.

[Tom Geiger]

I didn't see this mentioned (If It was, I must have missed it!), but something I call "The Reality Of Scale" is sometimes lacking. I am still sometimes guilty myself, but am unaware until I look at pictures I have taken of my work.

One of my most indispensable tools is my 1/25 scale ruler. Measure something 1:1 from real life, then copy it onto plastic using that 1/25 scale ruler. You are on your way to making an exact scale replica. It's actually much easier than approximating. In this photo I was making 17" long window frame pieces. All ten of them were right on the money!

You are right, there are so many things people do out of scale. From approximating when they scratch build, to buying 1/12 scale doll house accessories... yea, I've seen those. I remember a car with a HUGE newspaper and other accessories. And please watch your wire sizes... nothing like the guy who took apart a calculator and is using that wire for plug wire... (good 'enuf, it's what I had) well, now you have garden hoses running to your plugs. You'd be better off NOT wiring the engine at all.

And I always approach people in a non-judgmental way to help them with their models... "Yo Bozo! Get over here, this looks like crud, what's wrong with you?"

Edited August 14, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[Pete J.]

Scale is a funny thing! In my experience, just because something measures the exact dimension of the real deal doesn't mean it will "look right". Sometimes it looks too large and other times too small. This often times occurs because we view things at significantly different angles and distances on 1:1 items than we do on models. For instance, to get a true view of an engine of the real deal car, you may get closer than two feet from what you are viewing. Scale that down to a model and your eyes are 2 inches away. You just don't get that close to a models unless you are building it. Like it or not, our eyes distort things. You will often hear people refer to this as "Scale effect". It happens to solid objects as well as paints. In paints we perceive the color as darker than what we might see in real life through the filters of light passing through air and differences in light sources.

Now lets throw the camera into the equation. The problem with trying to look at scale in photographs is that most often photos tend to flatten round objects. This is because we tend to place the light source coming from the same direction that the camera is pointing. Without that shading they look wider than they do when we view them in real time. Look at almost any photo on this web site and see if you see ignition wires that don't have shading across their width. Most look like a uniform color across their width which makes them appear wider in the photo.

Here is an example: I know this is an airplane and it really isn't a good example on a car forum, but look at the rigging. To my eye it looks much too thick for the aircraft. It is .010" stainless wire. This is a 1:72 scale model so it scales up to just under 3/4" which is very close to the real deal. The problem here is the photo. The wire either reflects most of the light or blocks it so what you see in the photo is the full width which looks too wide in the photo. In person, with proper shading it looks like the very fine wire that it is and looks to scale. Photos don't always see what the eye sees.

Lastly, we most often look at models from above. Where we to do this in real life, it would be like being on a ladder or cherry picker. In real life we most often see vehicle from about chest height or lower. Again a change of perception. For this reason one of the best model companies in the world, Tamiya, will tell you that they change the dimensions of their bodies to accommodate this distortion.

Let me finish with this. I am not disagreeing with Tom by any means. Starting with something that is as close to correct scale is a great thing and being way out of scale is really an obvious thing. But I am saying that you can't stop there. I personally believe that we are creating art, not replicas. The difference being that we are in the business of creating things that fool the eye into believing that it is seeing the real deal. There are may tricks that we can use to do this. I am always perplexed when I see a modeler ask how to bend tubing for gas and break lines. Why would you want to use tubing if you can't see the hollow ends. Unless you actually plan on running fluid through them then wire works much better. Again, fooling the eye. So, in general, you need to have a good eye for what you are doing. Scale size is a great place to start, but keep in mind that if it doesn't look right, then adjust it.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Pete J.

[Scale-Master]

Back to Andy's statement, I for one absolutely do build for myself, for enjoyment. Why else would we build unless it was a job?

Do I always build to the same level of detail? No, and that is part of "building for myself".

Do I build for the challenge? Sometimes.

Just to play around? Sometimes...

Now using the "I build for myself" term as an excuse when confronted with errors or poor workmanship? That is not the same as what I'm referring to.

[Pete J.]

Back to Andy's statement, I for one absolutely do build for myself, for enjoyment. Why else would we build unless it was a job?

Do I always build to the same level of detail? No, and that is part of "building for myself".

Do I build for the challenge? Sometimes.

Just to play around? Sometimes...

Now using the "I build for myself" term as an excuse when confronted with errors or poor workmanship? That is not the same as what I'm referring to.

+1