Question about Monogram 29 Ford pick up motor.

[w451973]

Is the motor in the Early Iron 29 Ford an Olds or a Cadillac ? I thought it said Olds on the box but heard it's actually a Cadillac. I'm more familiar with the 60-70's Olds motors. Not so much with the earlier ones.

[Greg Myers]

[Greg Myers]

[Greg Myers]

[Greg Myers]

Edited September 12, 2014 by Greg Myers

[Greg Myers]

However, it does say here it's an Late Model Olds http://www.showrods.com/showrod_pages/boss_a_bone.html

[Greg Myers]

can this be far behind ?

[Brett Barrow]

Little Deuce restoration? I wrote it on Revell's suggestion sheet every day we were at IMPS Nationals.

[w451973]

Thanks Greg. I did'nt know that kit was made in so many variations. Do you have any more pics or info on that Deuce ? That looks cool.

[unclescott58]

So is it a Cadillac motor always? Or is there a variation with an Olds motor? I'm still not clear on this.

Scott

[Greg Myers]

I'd say it was your call. The early Cads and Olds looked similar. They were certainly totally different engines. With the distinctly marked Cadillac Valve covers you get the Cad. The other ( basically the same engine) with the custom chrome valve covers you could call it an Olds.

The kit engines are all the same except for the Valve covers and induction systems. Later kits had a tunnel ram with two four barrels.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Greg Myers

[Greg Myers]

Except for the Vavle cover bolt pattern.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Greg Myers

[Mark]

Monogram called it an Olds for the Tom Daniel redesign (Boss "A" Bone), and again for the Early Iron Series issue. The early Olds and Cadillac engines don't look all that different, though. Unlike the Tom Daniel redesign of the Little Deuce, where they called a Pontiac engine a "Boss 302 Mustang" mill...

[oldnslow]

Looks like the easiest way to identify the engine (from the pics shown) is the head bolts at the center exhaust port. The Caddy has a bolt on each side of the port, while the Olds has a bolt in the center.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Looks like the easiest way to identify the engine (from the pics shown) is the head bolts at the center exhaust port. The Caddy has a bolt on each side of the port, while the Olds has a bolt in the center.

Actually, the easiest way to differentiate between Gen 1 OHV Olds and Caddy V8 engines is the water crossover / thermostat housing at the front of the engines (the big giveaway that's missing in Greg's blue engine photo). The Caddy has it bolted to the front of the heads, like zo...

...while the Olds has it as an integral part of the intake manifold, bolted on top of the heads, like zees...

Edited September 14, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Tom Geiger]

Here's the later version of the valve cover. It has the Cadillac bolt pattern on it. We'll never know if losing the Caddy scripts was a royalty thing or a design thing...

[unclescott58]

This is the type of stuff I love to read and discuss. It's always interesting to see the amount knowledge people on this web site have. I'm impressed. The water cross over pipe looks like the quickest and best way to identify the Caddy from the Olds. The bolting down of the valve cover is a good second. The two good shots the model engine here, both look like Cadillacs to me. Especially the one with the Cadillac script on the valve cover.

Scott

[unclescott58]

By the way, I wonder if the model designers/toolers back in the day would have ever imagined that their work would be scrutinized like this. Considering they were mainly designing these models for kids, I'm impress with how correct they worked on getting the details right on some of these kits. Look at the Blue Beetle's Cadillac mill. Could it be better detailed? Yes. But notice, how much they did get right.

Scott

[VW93]

From what I've heard the loss of the Cadillac script was due to a licensing issue. Supposedly it wasn't an issue with GM but with Ford.

[unclescott58]

From what I've heard the loss of the Cadillac script was due to a licensing issue. Supposedly it wasn't an issue with GM but with Ford.

Very possible. Revell's '49 custom Mercury comes with a Caddy engine. But, no mention of it in the instructions or on the value covers.

Scott

[Art Anderson]

From what I've heard the loss of the Cadillac script was due to a licensing issue. Supposedly it wasn't an issue with GM but with Ford.

Probably not, as most licensors, including the US "Big Three" have licensed model kit engines of their brands, yet installed in a hot rod or custom car of a competing make for years and years now. More that likely, it was either a decision made at a reissue time, likely that Monogram or Revell decided that for cost reasons, paying a royalty for the Cadillac script on that engine simply made no financial sense ("How many more kits will we sell because the valve covers say 'Cadillac' is a type of question I heard frequently when in product development for Johnny Lightning diecast cars, believe it or not!).

Art

[FordRodnKustom]

I used the valve covers from the AMT 59 El C when I built this semi clone many years ago.

[w451973]

So it is a Cadillac as it originated. Good to know.