Resto-Mods & Modern Hot Rods

[Guest]

Ask yourself this question. Your at a car show or watching Barrett Jackson on TV, there is a '68 Camaro restomod with a giant crate motor and an original Z28 setting side by side - which gets you more excited?

Easy. The restomod. Original Z/28 Camaros are a dime a dozen at car shows. Then, you have to be an expert to spot the clones. No two restomods look alike or have the same modifications. Originals all look alike, except different colors.

[Longbox55]

I see it the other way around. The resto mods all look alike to me. Same mods, same boring crate engines, same boring colors, same boring oversize wheels with rubber band tires. A genuine documented Z/28, which were not as common as one would be led to believe (7199 in 1968), grabs my attention far more than the cookie cutter resto mods.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Longbox55

[turbo nova]

Reliability> It seems that this word is sometimes misunderstood in rodding circles. My 1949 Mercury M-47 pickup has been around--in stone stock form--for 66 years with most of its life spent doing farm work as a farm truck. Anything that can survive a 40+ year work life like that is, in my opinion, reliable. My parents and grandparents travelled cross country in those old crates...with no cel phones.They made it home alive. While I have always preferred originality of old vehicles (the people who designed them went to college), a 49 Ford sedan with modern underpinnings, a newer engine ( not necessarily EFI), AC and radials is pretty nice to operate for hours on end during a highway excursion. I spent my youth hunting the low spots of highway ruts with Bias Ply tires and worn steering gears and while it may be a trip to the past, as I age I am finding that I prefer to do less work and enjoy the scenery, not the temperature gauge. (Disclosure: My M-47 is apart completely, right down to ziplocs full of valve keepers, but it will go back together stock. My wide whites are NOS Bias ply and the steering gear is the OEM impaler-style. It rides like a manure spreader...shifting the old floor shift 3 speed is like stirring a wheelbarrow full of rocks...it steers like a fine Russian tractor... but there will be no LS engine, overdrive or AC--don't need it since the college graduates designed a cowl vent that not only looks cool, but it works.The only major change will be a 12 v conversion and I built my own converters for the stock gauges and fuel sending unit.)

But that's me. Tastes and opinions may vary and that's what makes going to a car show interesting. If everyone liked the same things, car shows could be condensed to a trip through a mall parking lot on a Saturday where we could all look at beige and silver cars with no soul or character that are all shaped the same. This is an interesting discussion...

I understand your point of view and agree to a degree, none of them would exist if they were all that bad when new, the issue now is the fact that 99% of the replacement parts are made in india, pakistan, china, etc. and are not even close to the fit, finish, and quality of original parts.

The use of these cars has changed far beyond theyr intended purpose, most of the iron being discussed here was built for utility on poorly made roads and to be easily repaired. They were never intended to go 75mph for a hundred miles at a time on paved roads. The users have changed a lot as well, The guys who had 55 chevy's as theyr first car didnt care about wind noise, comfy seats, cell phone chargers etc., most of the guys who have reached a point in life that they enjoy old iron and have the means to afford it arent going to be happy for long in car that has any of the previously listed items.

I can understand the the passion for traditional style as well, I used to be one of those guys and still enjoy it but there is only so many ways to build a 32 ford and the cost of correct parts has reached a level most can never afford and your location in relation to a strong car scene can compound that cost.

To restore a car IMO and in the opinion of those I know that do that as a specialty is to put it back as original, not better and not worse, if the gaps were bad and they had over spray all over the engine bay than thats what they do when they go back together with them. I cant do that as it would drive me batty lol, and IMO for an average car to be a viable candidate for a resto it would be so nice and complete many would think you were crazy to do it but for the average mustang, camaro, cuda thats the only way to make it viable as tracking down all the correct parts from date coded glass to NOS exhaust tips, wheels, etc. the cost can easily triple that of the value of the finished car and money is what it all comes down to.

As far as seeing cars modified I have no issue with it as the fact is most were in a state of disrepair and if its rare enough darn near anything can be repaired or replaced, Its far better to see one on the road rather than rotting or crushed to me.

this is an average example of what I do lately, stock looking muscle era., it wasnt finished in this pic so dont crucify me to bad on the emblems, hood bezels etc.

I dont know why this is all in the blue quote window ?

Edited February 18, 2015 by turbo nova

[turbo nova]

Ask yourself this question. Your at a car show or watching Barrett Jackson on TV, there is a '68 Camaro restomod with a giant crate motor and an original Z28 setting side by side - which gets you more excited?

if its an investment, stock is where its at, personally I want FAR more power than anything ever offerd

[Bernard Kron]

Having "resto-mod-ed" a tiny antique British sportscar I totally get it. And indeed I like a tastefully done muscle car. I think the GTO you're showing is very nice and have no problem with it at all. Sign me up! But as the object of my creative passion I'm coming from a different place. And that's where model cars come in. Discussing what people are doing in the 1:1 world is relevant and appropriate, but it begs the question of what to do when modeling cars. Some of us model our 1:1 fantasies and desires, some of us model our work vehicles, and some of us meticulously document history and childhood memories. But, as I mentioned earlier, what is somewhat unique in the car modeling hobby is the opportunity to do none of these things and just indulge our unfettered creative urges, whether it's "Imagineering" a semi-realistic hybrid of stylistic and mechanical elements, or even creating unrealistic and fantastic cartoons of vehicles that never could possibly exist.

[turbo nova]

thats why I love plastic, you can do anything and it doesnt matter and you dont need to take out a second mortgage to do it, I feel about the same way in 1:1, if its fun do it, theyr just metal glass and rubber.

[Tony N]

Wow have we all forgotten Stop Light racing ! That;s why cars were modified! I own a 04 WRX Wagon and it can smoke almost every 50's 60's and 70's Muscle car made, just look at the quarter mile time's.

When you pull up to a light with a old muscle and some kid in a Evo or a new Mustang pulls up next to you, They will just laugh at you and blow your doors off . New cars are just faster and handle better now and the brakes are great.

That why old guys with money, will bring an old car into the 21st century and don't forget pride in your old car. My brother has a 69 Z28 with factory rear disk brakes which make it 1 of 200. It just sits in his garage because it's to rare to drive. I don't see the fun in owning something you can't drive.

[High octane]

Stop Light Racing has died a LONG time ago, and it would NEVER be the same today no matter what two cars are at the light. Been there, done that.

[maltsr]

I'm not American and wasn't there in the '50's, but what were hot rodders doing putting them new fangled Olds and soul-less small block Chevies in their cars? Why didn't they stick with the flatheads that were used in the good old days of hot rodding in the '40's?

[Joe Handley]

I'm not American and wasn't there in the '50's, but what were hot rodders doing putting them new fangled Olds and soul-less small block Chevies in their cars? Why didn't they stick with the flatheads that were used in the good old days of hot rodding in the '40's?

Because at that time, newer and more powerful was better, now it this new fangled high tech junk that don't belong on a car like that.

[turbo nova]

because driveable 200 hp flatheads are rare, 300hp flatheads are unicorns

[alan barton]

Seems like only a handful of respondents on this thread are actually driving the aforementioned old cars. I have been driving my 29 Model A Roadster hot rod for just over thirty years and about 300,000 miles, for many years as my only car. We're talking peak hour freeway traffic, towing a trailer full of rubbish to the tip, building materials, my next project on a four wheel trailer etc etc etc. Not to mention five trips across Australia, probably one of the loneliest drives on the planet. If it wasn't for my "boring" "cookie cutter" "souless" "too modern" 350 Chevy ('wrong brand") Turbo 400, HK Holden independent front end, 9" rear on coil over shocks and radial tyres with front disc brakes, that car would have spent most of that time in the garage.

Now, I have driven a stone stock, magnificently restored Model A phaeton. One word. SCARY! Just trying to keep it in it's own lane was a challenge. Brakes, ideal for slowing down from a leisurely pace on an empty road but when some back-to-front cap wearing 18 year old at the peak of human intelligence changes three lanes to drop in front of you and then stands on his four wheel power assisted disc brakes gripping the road with sticky radial tyres, your life flashes before your eyes!!!!!!!

If you want to look at and appreciate an old car for the technology and looks of its day, restore it. If you want to enjoy driving, protect your family and others on the road and be a responsible citizen, hot rod it!

Don't forget, if there is ONE example of a particular car restored somewhere in the world, THAT"S ENOUGH! Turn the rest into hot rods and have some fun!

Cheers,

Alan

[W-409]

Ask yourself this question. Your at a car show or watching Barrett Jackson on TV, there is a '68 Camaro restomod with a giant crate motor and an original Z28 setting side by side - which gets you more excited?

Very easy! The original Z28 would be neat one to watch, but that Resto Mod would make me turn around not to see it. That original car would not have to be a Camaro to be more interesting than a Resto Mod Camaro - a bone stock Chevrolet Chevette would be much more interesting for me, too.

[FASTBACK340]

Crate motors have no identity, no soul. There's a reason we remember engines like 440 six packs, 327s, flatheads and HiPos. They are identifiable in how the engine looks like and the car it belongs too.

Really?

http://www.classicindustries.com/product/mopar/parts/mn1970.html

[FASTBACK340]

Funny how one group of enthusiasts will support building rusty BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH out of booger-welded junk, yet some people will question 4 wheel discs and a Tremec 5 speed in an old GTO.

"Back in the day" ( I think it was a Tuesday….) we would yank out a small eight and install the biggest engine we could find. That was Hot Rodding, back in the day.

Well, it's TODAY and when a customer walks into my shop, usually they don't want finicky multi-carb intakes and solid lifters and points. They want a reliable-as-gravity cruiser. That's why we do so many LS3 swaps and 4 wheel discs.

Here's a `65 Lincoln getting LS3, Air Ride, and big disc's all around.

Ever drive a stock `69 GTO with drum brakes and a torquey V-8? This puppy rolls like a a Lexus with a complete CPP suspension, Wilwood 4 wheel discs, and a Tremec 5 speed behind the mildly warmed over 400.

And this…. THIS. This is just plain sexy…..

[Lownslow]

torqs lol the cop out wheel of muscle cars

[FASTBACK340]

BTW: I went to a show this past July in Hicksville, Long Island. If the were 300 cars, it seemed line 180 were Mustangs. Out of them about 75 were Red. The only way to stand out in a crowd like that is to set your car on fire. Maybe….

I've gotten to the point where I can appreciate a correct restoration. We have a customer with a V code `70 `Cuda that wanted his turn signal switch replaced because the one in the car was from a different year and the part number tag on the harness was visible under the dash. We also had to replace ONE bumperette bolt because the marking on the head was different from the other 3 (correct) bolts. The incorrect bolt had 3 evenly spaced slashes with an L inside a circle that was a HAIR LARGER in diameter than the others….side by side you would notice it. Again, a different year bolt found it's way on, and he noticed it. Never mind the templates to reproduce undercarriagemarkings when it was restored …..

All versions have their place in the hobby. Variety is key.

[FASTBACK340]

torqs lol the cop out wheel of muscle cars

GTO has Torques, The Cougar Bullit wheels, the Lincoln stock.

What, everything should have Cragers? THE "cop-out" muscle cars wheels….

[gtx6970]

I like them all. From OE factory stock to full on modern / updated drivers.

'IF' ,,,,, I build another car . It will be all old on the outside and all modern underneath. Including a modern A/C system

At my age I no longer feel the need to have nothing but lots of horsepower and yet little to no brakes to stop it with .

[FASTBACK340]

Notice the `50 Olds in the background of the Cougar? No torque thrusts on that. It's not a resto-mod either. It's a kick-your-butt Hot Rod.

I just realized, This Sonny Byrant 600+ cube big block is fuel injected…..

[Bernard Kron]

A purely aesthetic challenge to the builders of modernized classics I'll pose is as follow: Accepting that all the standardized Rest-Mod techniques vastly improve the performance and drivability of these old cars, and that the overwhelming majority of them either are invisible or can be easily made so, the one thing that spoils them to my eye are the modern low-profile tires and out-sized wheels. I've noticed a genuine attempt to moderate them by using wheel designs that mimic older styles of wheels, but the overall proportion and configuration of these modern wheel/tire combos just doesn't look quite right to my eye in the wheel wells. Is their anything that can be done about that?

Edited February 18, 2015 by Bernard Kron

[FASTBACK340]

I like them all. From OE factory stock to full on modern / updated drivers.

'IF' ,,,,, I build another car . It will be all old on the outside and all modern underneath. Including a modern A/C system

At my age I no longer feel the need to have nothing but lots of horsepower and yet little to no brakes to stop it with .

I'm with you Bill. If I was building my Barracuda today it would be a 6.1 Hemi with a Tremec 5 or 6 speed….. 25+ MPG, cruise all day, A/C, P/S, etc….

Don't get me wrong, I love my car the way it is with 3 carbs and manual steering and brakes. It's a muscle car. If I was building it today, it would be a long-distance cruiser. 4:10's and no A/C are rough for long trips. I'm not a kid anymore!

[goldfinger]

Doesn't this come down to what the individual wants from his car? one person may want to replicate the ride of his youth, another may want the look of an older car with all of the modern conveniences or handling of a modern car. Others may build to visually impress with lots of chrome and massive blowers etc. Unless you are permanently destroying a rare one off one of a kind car, does it matter ? There are zillions of perfectly restored model A's and zillions of "traditional " rods out there too. If someone builds one that's to his liking does it matter?

Just one more thought. look at any era of hot rodding or car customization and what do you see? hot rodders sticking newer bigger powerplants in their cars! That's what we do! there is no rule book , just make it stop and go better and faster! nowadays we try to make them turn corners too. All I am saying is that sometimes we are a little too quick to say what is right or wrong with someone else's project . we can like or dislike , but outside of basic mechanical common sense and safety considerations its up to the individual.

[FASTBACK340]

A purely aesthetic challenge to the builders of modernized classics I'll pose is as follow:. Accepting that all the standardized Rest-Mod techniques vastly improve the performance and drivability of these old cars, and that the overwhelming majority of them either are invisible or can be easily made so, the one thing that spoils them to my eye are the modern low-profile tires and out-sized wheels. I've noticed a genuine attempt to moderate them by using wheel designs that mimic older styles of wheels, but the overall proportion and configuration of these modern wheel/tire combos just doesn't look quite right to my eye in the wheel wells. Is their anything that can be done about that?

Point taken, as things can go to extremes (Wheel size on DONKS…. spoiler size in Imports…… Most rust and garbage welded onto a Rat Rod…..) but listen to yourself. Step back and read what you posted about tire/wheel size.

That's what the Greasers said when everyone was bolting Cragers on their cars in the 60's with the tires sticking out way past the fenders. Think THOSE "proportions" looked "right"? I grew up in the era of Hush Thrush mufflers, Gabriel Hi-Jackers, and L-60's on 10" Cragers. Those things handled like a shopping cart! Think the de-cambered Import look is twitchy at speed? Try driving at speed with the tail end of your Chevelle extended to the limit ripping out the upper shock mounts.

That's OK….. Todays kids will be talking about Old School resto-mods as him & his buddies are changing the Dilithuim Crystals in his illegally modified G'vernment issued transportation module in the future….

[W-409]

A purely aesthetic challenge to the builders of modernized classics I'll pose is as follow: Accepting that all the standardized Rest-Mod techniques vastly improve the performance and drivability of these old cars, and that the overwhelming majority of them either are invisible or can be easily made so, the one thing that spoils them to my eye are the modern low-profile tires and out-sized wheels. I've noticed a genuine attempt to moderate them by using wheel designs that mimic older styles of wheels, but the overall proportion and configuration of these modern wheel/tire combos just doesn't look quite right to my eye in the wheel wells. Is their anything that can be done about that?

Great point on the tires and wheels. They just simply never look good in my opinion, I think tire needs to have high sidewall profile to look right.

John posted about those Cragars and tires sticking out of the fenders. Personally I'm not a great fan of that style, but sometimes it works. Still those tires have sidewall profile and they look like car tires instead of rubber bands.