What's next for the automobile?

[sfhess]

that is true too! Especailly in a Sport like mine with ground effects and a wing The Fusion is pretty squared off.

I have been very happy with my 6 and wouldn't trade if for any other like sedan in it's class.

Um, I meant that the other way, tongue-in-cheek too.........

My Fuse has a little wing on the trunk, and the Sport Appearance Package: "black chrome" grille, 17" wheels, Black interior with red accents and stitching. Very cool. Fun in the mountains.

Any engine or suspension mods on your 6?

[CAL]

Um, I meant that the other way, tongue-in-cheek too.........

My Fuse has a little wing on the trunk, and the Sport Appearance Package: "black chrome" grille, 17" wheels, Black interior with red accents and stitching. Very cool. Fun in the mountains.

Any engine or suspension mods on your 6?

Nah, it's a lease with 2 payments left. I wasn't sure if I was going to keep it, but now I am pretty sure I will. It books for over 11k and I owe $7800 on it with less than 30,000 miles, 27777 to be exact. I am probably going to lower it now and do some wheels.

[Rob Hall]

I've thought buying a Prius for a commuter car...3 of my coworkers have them, and I know many people back in Denver that have them. My Jeep on a good day gets 19mpg, so I'm spending about $70/week for gas now, which isn't bad, as I was spending $45/week for gas last year. My next new car will probably be something smaller and more efficient...maybe the new diesel Jetta. I don't like really small cars, though, but the Jetta is a reasonable size.

[Gregg]

I put my order in for a Smart car, but now they say it's a 12-16 month wait!!!!!!

Oh well...

[lordairgtar]

Pushing hybrids and electrics aside for a moment, I see nothing wrong with V8s but the writing is on the wall folks. Let's discuss street rods for a bit. What looked cooler than an old track roadster with a hopped Model A 4 banger with split exhaust and twin carbs on the side? That look could be achieved today with a modern double over head cam 4 cylinder, a neat looking side pipe on one side and a couple of Weber fuel injection units poking out the other side. That reeks with nostalgia. I've often looked at the kid's Probe engine and thought that.

Everyone talks of how the big three got slapped upside the head in regards to those big trucks and SUVs not selling. Some say Detroit didn't heed the call. Bull! Those efficient cars were out there, but no one bought them in favor of the big dinosaurs. Why? Because we were sold a bill of goods, that's why. As the industry saw that the vehicles that used to be the domain of contractors and farmers become popular with the soccer moms and others of that ilk, they went with it thinking they were following the trend of what was to be. Because the automakers quit making the full size cars after 1977, the people started looking at the available stock for one reason and that was safety. Perceived safety in a well built large heavy vehicle. Remember the Mercedes advert a few years ago with the talking baby in the M class? He pretty much says that dad bought the M class for his protection. People felt safe in the big Mercedes', Caddys, Lincolns, Caprices and so on. When a family goes to the dealer, the sales person will push the safety aspects to who, not the dad, but mom. Of course mom looks at dad and lets him know that we have to have a safe vehicle. The bigger cars (or SUVs and trucks) are safer in the minds of a lot of people. Whether that is true or not, does not matter. Perceived safety, like quality or sex appeal in an auto, is more often based on what people can see, not from a stat sheet. Just like when GM made it's first small Caddy, the Cimmaron. Basically a small Chevy, but you add some leather and some shiny wood grain on the dash and it looks like luxury and quality in a small size.

The small efficient cars are out there, we the people who buy cars just have to change our mindset. I have a 2007 HHR Panel. Rated at 30 mpg on the highway, I still got about 47 mpg on on trip I made by purposely babying the throttle. And yet, the power is there when I needed it. It's a very fast car (trucklet?) that can haul all my DJ equipment with nary a complaint and handles quite well. An turbo'd HHR did 155 miles per hour at Nurburgring during testing. That was with a 2.0 liter engine. Read article below in link.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_li...hhr_ss_car_news

[Guest zebm1]

I'll tell yall what's gonna happen. We're all gonna have identical towncars powered by 2 cyl. engines that won't go any faster than 45 mph. Then ifn you want to go cross State, since we all have identical cars, yu'll have a front and rear bumper hitch, kind of like a freight train coupler, then they will hook ya to a gawdawful huge semi-truck in strings of 15 to 30 cars. Then that gawdawful huge semi cab will be towing you in a tiny 45 mph car at 120 mph on tha Interstate.....with your nether orifice sucked down into your bucket seat with enuff force to cut holes outa tha seat padding and your eyes as large as pie plates. And of course, by tha time you reach your destination, you will have voided all of the contents in your bladder and colon......

So of course tha semi-driver will drop you off at tha "Cleaning Station" ........

And then.....you will continue on to visit Grandma and Grandpa.......

[Modelmartin]

I'll tell yall what's gonna happen. We're all gonna have identical towncars powered by 2 cyl. engines that won't go any faster than 45 mph. Then ifn you want to go cross State, since we all have identical cars, yu'll have a front and rear bumper hitch, kind of like a freight train coupler, then they will hook ya to a gawdawful huge semi-truck in strings of 15 to 30 cars. Then that gawdawful huge semi cab will be towing you in a tiny 45 mph car at 120 mph on tha Interstate.....with your nether orifice sucked down into your bucket seat with enuff force to cut holes outa tha seat padding and your eyes as large as pie plates. And of course, by tha time you reach your destination, you will have voided all of the contents in your bladder and colon......

So of course tha semi-driver will drop you off at tha "Cleaning Station" ........

And then.....you will continue on to visit Grandma and Grandpa.......

Aw, Zeb! You're all wet! The cars will enter vacuum tubes and we will be sucked along at 300 MPH and then shot out into sidings filled with recycled packing peanuts when we reach our destinations!

Andy

[Rob Hall]

Aw, Zeb! You're all wet! The cars will enter vacuum tubes and we will be sucked along at 300 MPH and then shot out into sidings filled with recycled packing peanuts when we reach our destinations!

Andy

Or we will see after the motor law alloy air cars and turbine freights, and the outlaw rebels will drive red barchettas..

[gregbbear]

Turbo Fours sound good to me! The mustang SVO was a great car. One of the best handling factory mustangs in history. It was just a little before its time. It seems to me, that weight is the biggest killer though. I think that enhanced use of composites is a good idea to help, but has been somewhat cost prohibited. It is getting better though. The automatic transmission is considerably heavier than a manual too. What is that they say? 100 pounds is equal to a horsepower in weight reductions?

I think that the domestic manufacturers are very capable of making fun, affordable and efficient cars. They just have to WANT to do it. Meaning, the bureaucrats way outnumber the John Coletti's. Cars such as the SVO, SVT focus or even the Cosworth Vega were just too small of market to bring the price down. If people start trading in their super-duties, then it will help. Mass marketing brings the cost down.

And for you V8 guys. Without cost as an object, I believe that the corvette z06 has good gas mileage. Being a smart-ass? No. It is an excellent example of how weight, low parasitic drag, and aerodynamic drag really help. And it is smoking hot looking too.

I just beg the automakers, US and otherwise, No Front Wheel Drive! Yuk! Don't make me make a restomod out of a vega!

I do wonder why the Taurus has a smaller, albeit way more powerful and efficient engine than the 6 cylinder mustang?????

By the way, you guys are a hell of a lot of fun! Jairus, you rock!

Later,

Greg

[MonoPed]

Turbo Fours sound good to me! The mustang SVO was a great car. One of the best handling factory mustangs in history. It was just a little before its time...

Very true!! I got to drive a couple SVOs before I became "MonoPed" and ridden in a couple afterwards, and they were the most interesting variants of the FOX body Mustang by far. Even the Turbo Coupe variants of the FOX body Thunderbirds were intersting rides. Give me a 2500lb two door, four place (small back seats a given), RWD car with a turbo 4 banger making +/- 250bhp, and I'd be happy... for awhile, at least

[MrObsessive]

I just beg the automakers, US and otherwise, No Front Wheel Drive! Yuk! Don't make me make a restomod out of a vega!

Amen to that! Now mind you, I drive a FWD (Saturn Ion Coupe)-----but I really wish someone would take the bull by the horns and come out with a fun, affordable, small RWD car! I like the Saturn a lot.............though it makes me wonder what they could do with the Sky's RWD Kappa chassis as far as a fun sporty 2d or 4d model.

I'm tired of the goofy, long front overhang styling of way too many FWD cars!

Four cylinders notwithstanding, if it's got reasonable power, and has nice proportions/great styling, I'll buy it!

[Modelmartin]

Hey Guys! Don't be hating on FWD cars, now! Ever since I bought a 78 Scirocco in 81 I have really enjoyed fwd cars. They are just different than RWD. I had my share of small and big block Chevelles before that and those were fun too. Gobs of horsepower and tiresmoke were enjoyed by myself many times. The most fun car I have owned was my 60 MIni with a 70 1 litre with twin SUs. It had 165 SR10 tires and I could get a little tire smoke off of them.

With an open mind you can have fun with just about anything that moves.

Andy

[MrObsessive]

I don't dislike FWD..................I'm just not crazy about the proportions on most of 'em. Must the front wheels be so close to the leading edge of the door making the front end so ungainly looking??

Hey if American designers could once upon a time do this gorgeous FWD design..............

Why are we now saddled with goofy proportions such as this??.............

That Avenger could seriously use a good wheelbase alignment!

I know styling is subjective..............I just hate the legroom cutting designs of a lot of FWD'rs today.

[Nick F40]

Bill, that is EXACTLY why I love the old school Imports, the REAL Imports. I would love to drive a RWD Celica or RWD Honda or a RWD Nissan or a RWD Toyota. or a..............

Why does the Fusion have the same grill style and name as the razor?

Edited June 29, 2008 by Nick F40

[gregbbear]

Thanks Monoped! You are speaking my language. I too like the turbo coupe. My dad had a red one that had matching trim, leather interior, and a T5 manual transmission. Truly a beautiful car.

And Mr Nick, I am sorry if you thought I was making fun of imports. I love cars despite their origins. I would prefer that American manufacturers did better, because that means Americans working. So many of the so-called imports are made here anyways. Personally, I think that if executives in the big 3, had to be accountable like the Japanese exec's, and had a fraction of the dedication that they do, well, we can dream can't we? It is just that so few Japanese, and American for that matter, platforms are RWD. And no, not because of burn out ability! I don't mean to be a FWD hater, but one of the fun things about driving a car is making it go around corners. Most of the FWD cars I've driven are plagued with horrendous understeer, less ability to use brakes in a corner, and torque steer. I guess I could learn how to tune around it. Different approach to sway bars and spring rates maybe?

As for the current Mustang, I am afraid it has gotten too porky for a turbo four. All the others are lux cars. Yes, I know the Benz derived 300/charger/magnum, but they are waay too heavy to fit the bill.

In conclusion, at least I can cram whatever I want under the hood of my 1/24 cars! And no, I am not a loser sitting on the net on a Sat night, it is called work. I also hope that I have not inadvertantly offended anyone. I really enjoy yall's cyber company, be safe.

Greg

[Joe Handley]

Or we will see after the motor law alloy air cars and turbine freights, and the outlaw rebels will drive red barchettas..

Nice...Rush!

[MrObsessive]

Bill, that is EXACTLY why I love the old school Imports, the REAL Imports. I would love to drive a RWD Celica or RWD Honda or a RWD Nissan or a RWD Toyota. or a..............

Ahhh yes.............I can remember when they were ALL (save for Honda) rear wheel drive, and they were everywhere during the '70's-'80's. I once owned a '76 Toyota Corolla back in the early '80's and while it was not a fast car by any means, it was definitely tossable as it was RWD with a 4 spd.

And I had plenty of legroom without the wheelwells sticking inside the footwells!

Ahhh memories!...............

[MonoPed]

I too had a mid 70's 'Yota, a '76 Celica GT liftback, kinda looked like a 3/4 scale 69-70 Mustang. Also had a '75½ Datsun 280Z (first of the fuel injected Z's), and an '83 Mazda RX7 (GSL trim, with 4whl discs and a 3.93:1 limited slip dif). I gotta say, those cars weren't nearly as powerful as my Mark VIII, they were loads more fun to drive, with te RX7 being the most fun... gotta love 7,000rpm shifts in a rotory powered rice rocket :-)

[Rob Hall]

My only personal experience in owning a small car was my '84 Ford Escort diesel I had in high school & college.very basic inside, but somewhat fun to drive on the windy, twisty Ohio backroads, drove fine on the freeways and got an amazing 55 mpg when driving back and forth between S. Florida and eastern Ohio.

If I got another small car, two that I like are the Mini Cooper S and VW GTI...haven't driven either, but I did ride in a GTI recently and it seemed fun, drove a rental Jetta a few months in Ohio and it was quite nice. I've been driving SUVs for almost 15 years (Ford Bronco II followed by a Grand Cherokee), so going small would be quite a change for me.

Edited June 29, 2008 by Rob Hall

[MrObsessive]

I too had a mid 70's 'Yota, a '76 Celica GT liftback, kinda looked like a 3/4 scale 69-70 Mustang. Also had a '75½ Datsun 280Z (first of the fuel injected Z's), and an '83 Mazda RX7 (GSL trim, with 4whl discs and a 3.93:1 limited slip dif). I gotta say, those cars weren't nearly as powerful as my Mark VIII, they were loads more fun to drive, with te RX7 being the most fun... gotta love 7,000rpm shifts in a rotory powered rice rocket :-)

Brian, I got an interesting RX-7 story for you........

Back in the late '80's when I had my '69 AMX, I was cruising around town one summer night after work (I worked at a hospital then on second shift). I was about to cross a bridge (Over the Susquehanna river) in town when a young girl comes up next to me in a first Gen. RX-7 ('79 maybe?). She was revving up the little rotary like she wanted a street match, so I was like "Yeah right!"

Anyway, the light turns red and I left her immediately at the light (I had a 390 in my AMX).........after about a 1/4 mile over the bridge, here comes this RX-7 gaining on me! I had it floored it at that point------I don't know how fast we were going across that bridge (120 maybe?) but I could never get more than 2 car lengths ahead of that Mazda!!

I won the street match at the end of the bridge, but I had a lot of respect for those tiny rotary's after that!

Interestingly, the car didn't seem to be running out of steam so who knows how fast that thing could have gone had we not run out of road to the next red light!

Of course today, you couldn't do that because there's so much traffic now...........plus I was in my late 20's then so I'd like to cut 'er loose every once in a while------but that little car really surprised me!

[Jairus]

I also drove a 77 Toyota Corolla for a number of years. Great milage but the road noise was awful loud even for the loud stereo I installed.

Had the little 3KC motor (slated to the left) with 5 speed and I went through two transmissions, 3 clutches, 4 waterpumps, 6 batteries and 4 sets of tires just to drive it 230,000 miles. Oh... and one head gasket! Never had to replace the alternator thankfully because it was buried under the intake and exhaust manifold.

I also had two snow tires mounted on rims in the trunk during the winter months. I got so that I could swap the wheels with the stock jack in less than 20 minutes!

Fun car, but like Bill said, not real powerful and an adequate handling car. Really could have used a turbo, chopped springs, and wider tires. Unfortunately it got so hard finding parts toward the end that I was considering swapping out the whole engine and tranny for something more current like a 86 Corolla GSX twin cam with fuel injection.

Sold it at a garage sale for $250.

(Got more for the Yamaha dirt bike! )

[Biscuitbuilder]

I also drove a 77 Toyota Corolla for a number of years. Great milage but the road noise was awful loud even for the loud stereo I installed.

Had the little 3KC motor (slated to the left) with 5 speed and I went through two transmissions, 3 clutches, 4 waterpumps, 6 batteries and 4 sets of tires just to drive it 230,000 miles. Oh... and one head gasket! Never had to replace the alternator thankfully because it was buried under the intake and exhaust manifold.

I also had two snow tires mounted on rims in the trunk during the winter months. I got so that I could swap the wheels with the stock jack in less than 20 minutes!

Fun car, but like Bill said, not real powerful and an adequate handling car. Really could have used a turbo, chopped springs, and wider tires. Unfortunately it got so hard finding parts toward the end that I was considering swapping out the whole engine and tranny for something more current like a 86 Corolla GSX twin cam with fuel injection.

Sold it at a garage sale for $250.

(Got more for the Yamaha dirt bike! )

I had three Toyota's, '77 Corolla SR5 Liftback (obliterated in a crash with a Mustang II AND a utility pole), replaced that with the same thing, only in a '79 (drove that one 200,000 miles, with two sets of brakes and 3 sets of new tires), and an '81 SR-5 long bed pickup (that one went 140,000 miles on one set of tires, and one timing belt--gave it to my nephew in 1992 and he drove it another 10 yrs--oh, did I mention that the pickup also toted an 8' bunk-over-cab slide in camper for nearly 50,000 miles on vactions and weekend getaways?).

Both Corolla's were great cars--fun to drive, comfortable, with more than enough Oomph in their little hemi-head 4-bangers. That pickup with the camper up? Many was the time I out powered V6 S-10's and Rangers carrying essentially the same camper uphill down in Southern IN. All I did to prep the truck for the camper was to add AirLifts and a sway bar to the rear suspension (forgot to bleed down the air bags once, after dropping off the camper at home--talk about a kidney-buster!

It's funny almost, with all the stick shift cars I've had over the years, that I have never, EVER had to replace a clutch--and I never drove any one of them easy. Must have been something to do with my learning, at an early age, the art of proper downshifting when coming to a turn, even approaching a stopsign or stoplight I guess. Also saved a lot on brakes that way as well.

They were tough little vehicles as well. The '77 got rear-ended in the fall of '78 by some teenaged kid driving his Dad's brand new Buick Regal--stripped the rubber stripe off the rear bumper, buckled the right rear quarter in about an inch or so--the Buick? TOTAL loss, as it shoved the A posts back far enough to jam the doors so the only way they could get him and his girlfriend out was with Jaws of Life (they both survived to recover) Got it back from the body shop a week before Christmas, and on the Sunday after, it got T-boned by a Mustang II that came charging out of an apartment complex, which tore both front subframes off, and then slid into a utility pole--totaled. Replaced that with the new '79--great little car, just enough noise in it to be fun, engine loved screaming out in the 3 lower gears too. The truck? That one did everything we ever asked of it, the camper, hauling jobs for relatives, merchandise pick up trips to hobby wholesalers in Chicago monthly. Under warranty, Toyota replaced two seats when the upholstery failed twice within the first 6 months, the cab never rusted, but that "Made in East LA" pickup box finally rotted badly by 1990. Great vehicle.

Biscuitbuilder

[CAL]

Brian, I got an interesting RX-7 story for you........

Back in the late '80's when I had my '69 AMX, I was cruising around town one summer night after work (I worked at a hospital then on second shift). I was about to cross a bridge (Over the Susquehanna river) in town when a young girl comes up next to me in a first Gen. RX-7 ('79 maybe?). She was revving up the little rotary like she wanted a street match, so I was like "Yeah right!"

Anyway, the light turns red and I left her immediately at the light (I had a 390 in my AMX).........after about a 1/4 mile over the bridge, here comes this RX-7 gaining on me! I had it floored it at that point------I don't know how fast we were going across that bridge (120 maybe?) but I could never get more than 2 car lengths ahead of that Mazda!!

I won the street match at the end of the bridge, but I had a lot of respect for those tiny rotary's after that!

Interestingly, the car didn't seem to be running out of steam so who knows how fast that thing could have gone had we not run out of road to the next red light!

Of course today, you couldn't do that because there's so much traffic now...........plus I was in my late 20's then so I'd like to cut 'er loose every once in a while------but that little car really surprised me!

Yeah, surprising little cars and motors. I have owned a couple rotarys if it had been an FD3S you probably would have been beat, as it had about another 120 bhp up from 135 in the 1st gen to nearly double at 255bhp or a Type A which has a whopping 280bhp. A worn out FD3S would still go sideways in a straightline in second and third gear and scratch fourth and fifth. That's with a 1.3 liter! and they were tiny, 300lbs and about the size of a milk crate. The whole car only weighted 2800 lbs. They didn't have much torque but RPM galore easily reving to 9000rpm until it just ran out of air volume. Only 2 moving parts in a rotary, no valve train, cams, or any of that useless junk

The Rotary powered 787B is still the only Japanese car to win overall at Le Mans.

Edited June 29, 2008 by CAL

[MonoPed]

Brian, I got an interesting RX-7 story for you...

...but that little car really surprised me!

Bill,

Mine was essentially stock with the timing bumped as far as I could and still run smooth. I also hacked out the four (yes, four) cat convertors and straight piped back to a dual outlet muffler. My car saw 7,000 rpm nearly everytime I sat in it and never complained. Once, I missed the 2-3 upshift, hitting the side of the gate with my right foot burind in the go pedal - I buried the tachometer, which read to 8,000rpm. It never shook, sputtered, smoked or came apart. Once the revs got back to around 6,000, I grabbed second gear and went on. Oh, and without the cats, it could belch flames out the tail pipes at will :-)

[Nick F40]

I too had a mid 70's 'Yota, a '76 Celica GT liftback, kinda looked like a 3/4 scale 69-70 Mustang. Also had a '75½ Datsun 280Z (first of the fuel injected Z's), and an '83 Mazda RX7 (GSL trim, with 4whl discs and a 3.93:1 limited slip dif). I gotta say, those cars weren't nearly as powerful as my Mark VIII, they were loads more fun to drive, with te RX7 being the most fun... gotta love 7,000rpm shifts in a rotory powered rice rocket :-)

Well those Celicas in those years were known as the japanese Mustang. And that kind of sounds like my dad, he had a 76 Celica and a 280Z and loved them and said while they weren't that powerful they HANDLED which I would want and he said he had fun.

Sounds like an RX7 i'd be interested in huh?

Chris you are VERY lucky and I agree on the FD3S, they are fast lil buggers, I see plenty with 13B and 20B Bridgy's. I want one now.

Bill that is the coolest story I think you ever told, except for the squirrel and that is too cool, those rotorys really fly for how little they are and for how light but than again not many moving parts.

All these Mazda stories are getting to me, I'll have to look for one in my PA car shopping magazine.