rel14 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 I'm in southwest florida . and its 40's. this is crazy for us,, I need some global warming. Feel sorry for all them north of me, My kids in Ga. said it will back to 17 by Wednesday.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) It's a real shame that local weather is often confused with global climate. The FACT IS that the average temperature of the all the world's atmosphere and oceans IS WARMER than it used to be. Glaciers ARE melting. Ocean levels ARE rising. But where YOU are at any given moment may not seem like it. Weather patterns are changing as the atmosphere warms up. Storms are becoming more frequent and severe. It's a fact, but exactly WHY it's happening is still being argued. The planet's climate has been very much warmer than it is now in the past, and also very much colder, and humans HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. https://www.nrdc.org/stories/global-warming-101 Edited January 14, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
426 pack Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Up in the great while north (BC Canada) all through December it was above 0 for us and now for the past 3 days it’s been -30. It is very strange wether this year. I don’t believe in global warming. The weter just dose what it wants when it wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) 48 minutes ago, 426 pack said: ...I don’t believe in global warming. The weter just dose what it wants when it wants. Saying you don't believe in "global warming" is a lot like saying you don't "believe" in gravity. Read the first-hand science BEFORE it's been spun by the media and politicized. And LOOK at, STUDY and UNDERSTAND the satellite photos. The atmosphere IS WARMER THAN IT WAS NOT TOO LONG AGO. It's real, and it's not a matter of belief. Edited January 14, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Watch this NASA video that shows the dramatic reduction in Arctic ice over the last 20+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 5 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said: It's a real shame that local weather is often confused with global climate. The FACT IS that the average temperature of the all the world's atmosphere and oceans IS WARMER than it used to be. Glaciers ARE melting. Ocean levels ARE rising. But where YOU are at any given moment may not seem like it. Weather patterns are changing as the atmosphere warms up. Storms are becoming more frequent and severe. It's a fact, but exactly WHY it's happening is still being argued. The planet's climate has been very much warmer than it is now in the past, and also very much colder, and humans HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. https://www.nrdc.org/stories/global-warming-101 Well, the weather sure becomes the focus of the climate change debate when it advances the advocates position! Every time a weather event happens, it's all due to global "climate change", (which had to be changed from "global warming" because it no longer adhered to the game plan) You'll never convince me that climate change is a problem, let alone whether it exists or not. As far as I'm concerned, it's just the latest hysteria that the dooms day crowd exhumes every 20 or 30 years. A few decades ago, it was the next coming ice age, followed by the freak out over the deterioration of the ozone layer, & now this. 30 years from now it will be something else. I know, call me a "climate denier", I just call them how I see them. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Saying you don't believe in "global warming" is a lot like saying you don't "believe" in gravity. Read the first-hand science BEFORE it's been spun by the media and politicized. And LOOK at, STUDY and UNDERSTAND the satellite photos. The atmosphere IS WARMER THAN IT WAS NOT TOO LONG AGO. It's real, and it's not a matter of belief. Have you ever heard the phrase, "you can't believe everything you read"? That applies to "science" that has all kinds of opportunities to become corrupted as well. I know the climate change advocates like to look down their nose at people that don't necessarily agree with their science, but you have to concede that scientific "theories" are just that.....theories, & they are proven wrong & change all of the time. Seems to me, it wasn't all that long ago, the big bang theory was all but settled science..........Hmm, guess not! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 2 hours ago, afx said: Watch this NASA video that shows the dramatic reduction in Arctic ice over the last 20+ years. And you will notice that they put much less emphasis on, & offer fairly vague explanations as to why over the same period of time, the Antarctic has accumulated a record amount of ice. "It's a bit of a mystery" they say. Hmm, couldn't be that your theory needs a little more scrutinization before you claim that we are all going to be charcoal briquettes in the next 10 years, could it? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rel14 Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 OMG let me get this right,, the hotter it gets ? the colder it gets ? and the ice is melting ? Hmm that means I'm going to get heat stroke, and die of frost bite, if I don't drown first,, that's cool, beats getting cancer, or a heart attack, Sorry,, IN GOD I TRUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said: Have a nice day. Edited January 14, 2018 by Casey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrObsessive Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 5 hours ago, rel14 said: Hmm that means I'm going to get heat stroke, and die of frost bite, if I don't drown first,, that's cool, beats getting cancer, or a heart attack, Sorry,, IN GOD I TRUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Here is the evidence of climate change according to NASA. I assume we all still trust NASA unless it has been taken over by a Chinese plot too. https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Driver Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 I don't implicitly trust NASA. I'm with Steve G. on this. What does all of this climate variation mean? Is the only answer to drastically curtail human activity? Who's to say what the correct temperature ought to be at any given place and time? I get nervous and skeptical when authority figures threaten legal action against ''deniers" of any kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 If anyone here has actually READ and UNDERSTOOD hundreds of pages of PRIMARY documents related to "climate change" (NOT the mindless crapp spun and twisted and politicized by the media and various special-interest groups), as I have, they're in a position to have a valid "opinion", or at least one that's defensible in logical terms. Otherwise, ignorance is bliss. Here's a place to start educating yourselves... https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=papers+on+climate+change&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjdgP7u4tfYAhVBY98KHWOQAGIQgQMIJzAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 10 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said: And you will notice that they put much less emphasis on, & offer fairly vague explanations as to why over the same period of time, the Antarctic has accumulated a record amount of ice. "It's a bit of a mystery" they say. Hmm, couldn't be that your theory needs a little more scrutinization before you claim that we are all going to be charcoal briquettes in the next 10 years, could it? I don't know exactly where you're getting your information, but either it or your interpretation of it is flawed. According to NASA in 2017... "Over the past nine years, NASA has been studying how ice has evolved and changed through sophisticated instruments that measure snow depth, ice elevation and thickness, surface temperature, bed topography and other characteristics of sea ice, ice sheets, and glaciers. According to NASA, the current mission targets "sea ice in the Bellingshausen and Weddell seas, and glaciers in the Antarctic Peninsula and along the English and Bryan Coasts." Researchers have used the IceBridge data to study what is perhaps an irreversible decline of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet that is directly contributing to rising sea levels." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 11 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said: ...Seems to me, it wasn't all that long ago, the big bang theory was all but settled science..........Hmm, guess not! Do you actually understand the "big bang theory"? Do you understand its derivation from observable red-shift phenomena? Do you understand the recent interpretation of observations at CERN and papers from a couple of theoretical physicists that question the theory's validity? For the time being, the "big bang theory" is still the best we've got. But a "theory" is never "settled science" until repeatable and observable results confirm it with enough frequency to give it apparent validity. We can NOT, obviously, go back to the instant of creation and directly OBSERVE what happened, so no matter how convincing ANY theory of the origin of the universe may appear to be, it will remain a theory. On the other hand, verifiable and repeatable measurements, and countless photographs and satellite images show undeniable evidence that the atmosphere of the planet IS WARMER than it was 50 years ago. This is observable FACT. The only THEORY involved is WHY it's happening...is it the result of natural forces we don't yet fully understand, or is human activity at least partially to blame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Ace-Garageguy said: I don't know exactly where you're getting your information, but either it or your interpretation of it is flawed. According to NASA in 2017... "Over the past nine years, NASA has been studying how ice has evolved and changed through sophisticated instruments that measure snow depth, ice elevation and thickness, surface temperature, bed topography and other characteristics of sea ice, ice sheets, and glaciers. According to NASA, the current mission targets "sea ice in the Bellingshausen and Weddell seas, and glaciers in the Antarctic Peninsula and along the English and Bryan Coasts." Researchers have used the IceBridge data to study what is perhaps an irreversible decline of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet that is directly contributing to rising sea levels." I got that information from one of the other Nasa videos posted on the same page that "afx" posted. Question for anyone who lives on the coast. Anybody seen these "rising sea levels? I can never understand how people can voice their disdain for government, claiming that they're all crooks & idiots, but when it comes to government backed researchers, they're absolute geniuses. I believe we all know where these "genius" researchers get their funding to do their research & then we believe that they're somehow supposed to be unbiased? When you have leftist governments providing funding & expecting certain outcomes in order to receive continued funding, can we really expect anything other than flawed outcomes. You can believe these researchers if you want Bill, but just because they have a PHD next to their name & are all looking for outcomes to meet their & their bosses expectations, it doesn't mean they're correct. I've seen these types of issues hyped into a frenzy before, only to turn into a big "nothing burger" down the road. I find it a little disturbing that spokespersons like Al Gore can get filthy rich selling worthless "carbon offsets" so he can fly around to his global warming conferences in private jets & live in extravagant houses & then tell me that I need to get rid of my SUV & buy an electric car because "I'm" destroying the planet. Bugger off Al Gore!! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 1 minute ago, StevenGuthmiller said: I got that information from one of the other Nasa videos posted on the same page that "afx" posted. Question for anyone who lives on the coast. Anybody seen these "rising sea levels? I can never understand how people can voice their disdain for government, claiming that they're all crooks & idiots, but when it comes to government backed researchers, they're absolute geniuses. I believe we all know where these "genius" researchers get their funding to do their research & then we believe that they're somehow supposed to be unbiased? When you have leftist governments providing funding & expecting certain outcomes in order to receive continued funding, can we really expect anything other than flawed outcomes. You can believe these researchers if you want Bill, but just because they have a PHD next to their name & are all looking for outcomes to meet their & their bosses expectations, it doesn't mean they're correct. I've seen these types of issues hyped into a frenzy before, only to turn into a big "nothing burger" down the road. I find it a little disturbing that spokespersons like Al Gore can get filthy rich selling worthless "carbon offsets" so he can fly around to his global warming conferences in private jets & live in extravagant houses & then tell me that I need to get rid of my SUV & buy an electric car because "I'm" destroying the planet. Bugger off Al Gore!! Steve Although I agree in principle with many of your statements, I have looked at and interpreted MYSELF hundreds of photographs taken of glaciers all over the planet 50 years ago, and recently. MY OWN EYES SHOW ME UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE. Far as sea levels go... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/10/five-pacific-islands-lost-rising-seas-climate-change https://threegenerationsleft.wordpress.com/2017/03/22/the-effects-of-rising-sea-levels-on-island-nations/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Driver Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Bill Engwer, I have to admire your pursuit of knowledge. This climate science is very esoteric stuff. Been reading an exchange between a climate scientist and a skeptical one. The pro-warming guy is very good and data driven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JollySipper Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Is it at all possible that we are closer to the Sun than we were? Maybe just a cm would cause a change in climate. The spheres in our Solar System are on a huge "blanket", with the Sun in the center......... eventually all the little spheres roll into the bigger one........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 We're basing all of this hysteria on what has happened in the past 50 or so years. A tiny blink of an eye in historical terms. I concede that there were probably some changes in the climate over the past 100 years. & there were most definitely changes in the 100 years before that, & the 100 before that, & there will absolutely be changes in the next 100, but to get the entire population of the planet all worked up over something that we have no control over & cannot change is ridiculous in my mind. Governments all over the world are clamoring to "save our planet" & all of the "fixes" require us, the little guy, to give up our freedoms & our money. They like to claim that they can "fix" our climate issues if we just offer up our lives for them to control. Really? This coming from the same people who can't even come close to figuring out how to fix the more relevant & immediate issues that face all of us today? Bullocks!! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Although I agree in principle with many of your statements, I have looked at and interpreted MYSELF hundreds of photographs taken of glaciers all over the planet 50 years ago, and recently. MY OWN EYES SHOW ME UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE. Far as sea levels go... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/10/five-pacific-islands-lost-rising-seas-climate-change https://threegenerationsleft.wordpress.com/2017/03/22/the-effects-of-rising-sea-levels-on-island-nations/ Then you have also read the follow up to the first article stating that the sea level rise on those islands has been twice as much as the rest of the world. Hmm, funny......how could that be? Well, of course the author still attributes it partially to global warming, but there are other factors a well. Just another example of how everything depends on what you read, & how you "choose" to interpret it. I'm never going to convince you Bill that your position is incorrect, just as you will not convince me that mine is wrong. I know that the climate change believers like to belittle those who are skeptical by insinuating that we are all a bunch of pea brained, knuckle dragging troglodytes, but that's ok with me. When the planet spirals into Al Gore's vision of an un-inhabitable toaster oven with boiling seas, then I will admit I was wrong. Until then, I will not lose even one wink of sleep over the issue. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said: We're basing all of this hysteria on what has happened in the past 50 or so years. A tiny blink of an eye in historical terms. I concede that there were probably some changes in the climate over the past 100 years... So, right there you make a strong case for the argument that human activity is responsible, at least in part, for the MEASURABLE rise in mean atmospheric temperatures, which has been FAR MORE RAPID since the dawn of the industrial revolution (with humans burning fossil fuels) than any of the accepted scientific research techniques indicate happened previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said: ...Just another example of how everything depends on what you read, & how you "choose" to interpret it... ...I know that the climate change believers like to belittle those who are skeptical by insinuating that we are all a bunch of pea brained, knuckle dragging troglodytes, but that's ok with me... ...When the planet spirals into Al Gore's vision of an un-inhabitable toaster oven with boiling seas, then I will admit I was wrong... As I said earlier, until you've read and interpreted hundreds of pages of RAW data, as I have, and have looked with an open mind at hundreds of images of retreating glaciers...both things you've failed to address in any of your "arguments", I'll accept that you have a valid position from which to even FORM AN OPINION. Boiling seas? Nobody has ever so much as insinuated that, but gross exaggeration, typical of many deniers in many areas...not just this one... is no substitute for valid argument techniques based on evidence, logic, research and knowledge, coupled with critical thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xingu Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 I am going to close this one down right here. There will be no winner in this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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