why have new cars gotten so expensive 1:1 scale

[Ace-Garageguy]

27 minutes ago, highway said:

Central America is just a region, NOT a continent, and regardless Mexico is still NOT part of the Central American Region. 

 

Since almost every gadget including new cars come with some sort of GPS, it doesn't surprise me that most can't even find their way home without them and don't have the basic skills to read these funny and odd drawings I posted called MAPS!! 

 

Nobody said it WAS a continent, and whether Mexico is part of the region or not kinda depends on where you get your map.

        

                                                                    

And many maps group them together as "Mexico and Central America", as distinct from "North America".

Edited April 1, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Lovefordgalaxie]

Things are getting off topic here quite fast. 

The Americas are one single continent, that has being divided in South America, Central America and North America by convention, and not by physical divisions. 

Convention, is an agreement between countries to accept something as a fact. 

Example, zero degree longitude is represented by the Greenwich Observatory in the UK. That was accepted by all, and it's used to determine coordinates worldwide. 

Example: if you are in a place where your clock shows 10:00 o'clock at the exact same time it's 12:00 o'clock (noon) in Greenwich,  you are two hours behind or 30 degrees of longitude West. Your latitude, by other hand will require a sextant, some calculations and a shipping almanac for the seasonal corrections to determinate. 

Before the advent of the Panama Canal, one could actually walk from the very southern Chile, to the polar cold of northern Alaska, in just one giant continent, divided by convention in three Americas. 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Lovefordgalaxie

[Erik Smith]

Price is determined by the market. People are willing to pay $50,000 dollars for a full size truck, so they sell them for $50,000. It doesn’t matter what policies add to the price, if people aren’t willing to buy something for a price, they won’t make it. 

Financing, however, has made people more willing to spend large sums of money to drive what they think they need to drive. As a dealer once told me, “financing makes a poor person rich”. Not literally, but you know what you need to do to keep up with the neighbors...

Edited April 1, 2018 by Erik Smith

[Ace-Garageguy]

6 hours ago, Lovefordgalaxie said:

 

The Americas are one single continent, that has being divided in South America, Central America and North America by convention, and not by physical divisions. 

Before the advent of the Panama Canal, one could actually walk from the very southern Chile, to the polar cold of northern Alaska, in just one giant continent, divided by convention in three Americas.

 

I don't know what they're teaching in schools in South America, but the convention when I was in school in North America (and today) is that North and South America are TWO SEPARATE CONTINENTS, with Central America being a "region", a part of the North American continent, often including Mexico, sometimes not...depending on the purpose and originator of the map or the discussion in question. Taken together, North and South America are referred to as "the Americas", but distinct as members of the accepted "seven continents, 5 oceans" view of the planet.

(And though you can obviously walk from the eastern edge of Asia to the western edge of Europe, they're still considered to be two distinct continents)

Below, sourced from    http://www.7continents5oceans.com/

North America

North America is a continent which lies wholly in the northern hemisphere. It is bordered by Arctic Ocean in the north, Atlantic Ocean in the east, Pacific Ocean in the south and west, and South America and Caribbean Sea in the south east. North America lies almost wholly in the western hemisphere. North America covers almost 4.8 percent of the earth’s surface and comprises around 16.5 percent of the whole land area on earth. North America is home to nearly 565 million people. About 7.5 percent of the world’s population lives here. It is the third largest continent in the world by area and fourth largest continent by population. Most of the land and area of the continent is dominated by Canada, United States of America, Greenland and Mexico. There are also many smaller states in the Central America and Caribbean regions.

South America

South America is a continent located in the western hemisphere with most of its land area lying in the southern hemisphere and a relatively small portion in the northern hemisphere. It has Pacific Ocean to its western side, Atlantic Ocean in the north and eastern side, and North America and Caribbean Sea in the North West side. With an area covering 17,840,000 square kilometres and a population of more than 3 billion, South America is the fourth largest continent in terms of size and fifth in terms of population. South America is home to twelve sovereign states and two non sovereign states. It is generally considered to be a subcontinent of the Americas.

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Rob Hall]

Reality is complex.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 minute ago, Rob Hall said:

Reality is complex.

[Xingu]

1 hour ago, Erik Smith said:

Price is determined by the market. People are willing to pay $50,000 dollars for a full size truck, so they sell them for $50,000. It doesn’t matter what policies add to the price, if people aren’t willing to buy something for a price, they won’t make it. 

Financing, however, has made people more willing to spend large sums of money to drive what they think they need to drive. As a dealer once told me, “financing makes a poor person rich”. Not literally, but you know what you need to do to keep up with the neighbors...

That's part of the problem. If folks don't want to pay the excessive price for a car/truck, they don't lower the price, they discontinue the model (at least sometimes they do). I drive a 2011 Ford Ranger for work and I really like that truck. Perfect size for driving/parking in the DC area. Ford did away with them (in the US) and you were pretty much forced to buy a full-sized truck. Now they are going to bring them back and it looks like they are going to be quite expensive and larger (more of a mid-sized truck now).

All of the GM and Ford vehicles I have purchased since the early 2000's have been with 0.0% interest from the manufacturer (including the Callaway Corvette I owned). Unfortunately, my wife likes imports which I have rarely seen offer 0.0%. I have gotten 0.9% and 1.9% on her Volvo and Nissan. I know they have a lot of money built into the price of a new vehicle, but I negotiate until I am happy with the deal. I will walk out of the dealership if needed. Generally, within a day or two I get a call to come back in and talk some more. I almost always get what I was looking for (which is a reasonable price for the vehicle) and still get them to throw in a freebie or two, even if it is only a shirt or a free tire rotation.

[Snake45]

For the purposes of this conversation, I propose that "North America" has been definitively and legally defined: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement

[Lovefordgalaxie]

4 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

 but the convention when I was in school in North America (and today) is that North and South America are TWO SEPARATE CONTINENTS, with Central America being a "region"

(And though you can obviously walk from the eastern edge of Asia to the western edge of Europe, they're still considered to be two distinct continents)

Agreed, that's the convention they teach in the former British Colonies. I use the term continent to  represent the same land mass, what the Americas are. It was divided, by convention, like you said. The idea of seven continents was created by convention. 

In school I learned the America is one continental mass, containing two sub continents. 

For example, I have a Encyclopedia Britannica from the 50's that says the Americas are one continental mass, divided by convention in two sub continents. 

It's all a question of nomenclature, and what convention you want to accept. 

From the Encyclopedia Britannica, and what I learned in school:

"Depending on the convention and model, some continents may be consolidated or subdivided: for example, Eurasia is most often subdivided into Asia and Europe, while North and South America are sometimes recognised as one American continent."

That citation was copied on Wikipedia (surprise surprise, they copied a citation from a 60 year old book):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continent#/media/File:Continental_models-Australia.gif

The British usually referred to Africa as a Sub Continent. It's all over the classic literature. 

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Lovefordgalaxie

[Pete J.]

To get back on track, there have been rumors for the last several years that Toyota will bring the HiLux to the US.  I even saw a recent report that The EPA had received two new diesels from them and they were being certified for sale in all 50 states.   I can only hope that they do bring that smaller truck in.  Rumor also has it that the first ones will be from the factory in Argentina.  

[Erik Smith]

1 hour ago, Pete J. said:

To get back on track, there have been rumors for the last several years that Toyota will bring the HiLux to the US.  I even saw a recent report that The EPA had received two new diesels from them and they were being certified for sale in all 50 states.   I can only hope that they do bring that smaller truck in.  Rumor also has it that the first ones will be from the factory in Argentina.  

I beleive the chicken tax will hit those trucks - won’t it? 25% tariff. 

I have bemoaned the lack of basic truck or SUV for years. It doesn’t take much travel outside the US to see vehicles that you think “why the heck isn’t that avaialable?” For instance, four door small trucks - for years the were never imported even though Toyota made them for 20 years before they started selling them here - and then only higher end models. Or base model Land Cruisers? I drove one Down Under - Manual trans, 6 cylinder diesel, manual windows, full floater axles - nothing even close here - except a fully loaded, bloated, super high end SUV. 

6 hours ago, Xingu said:

That's part of the problem. If folks don't want to pay the excessive price for a car/truck, they don't lower the price, they discontinue the model (at least sometimes they do). I drive a 2011 Ford Ranger for work and I really like that truck. Perfect size for driving/parking in the DC area. Ford did away with them (in the US) and you were pretty much forced to buy a full-sized truck. Now they are going to bring them back and it looks like they are going to be quite expensive and larger (more of a mid-sized truck now).

All of the GM and Ford vehicles I have purchased since the early 2000's have been with 0.0% interest from the manufacturer (including the Callaway Corvette I owned). Unfortunately, my wife likes imports which I have rarely seen offer 0.0%. I have gotten 0.9% and 1.9% on her Volvo and Nissan. I know they have a lot of money built into the price of a new vehicle, but I negotiate until I am happy with the deal. I will walk out of the dealership if needed. Generally, within a day or two I get a call to come back in and talk some more. I almost always get what I was looking for (which is a reasonable price for the vehicle) and still get them to throw in a freebie or two, even if it is only a shirt or a free tire rotation.

True - the market is manipulated by the companies. They limit competition, I guess. Probably a book (or many books) somewhere about how we’re getting screwed by crooked corporations and government servants colluding...

I always wondered if my thought process about finance rates made real sense...

If the rate is below actual inflation, is it better to finance a loan at that low rate then to actually save the money over time then buy? If you save money, depending on interest gained, I guess - you loose some to inflation - but if you are paying for five years on a loan at 0 or 1%, your payment is actually going down over that time because of inflation...?

I’m obviously not an accountant or economist...but...?

[Lovefordgalaxie]

Guys, lets go back on topic, before the thread gets locked. 

On the car prices, I noticed something interesting. 

Here in Brasil, the prices usually have less to do with what actually costed to build the car, and more with the taxes, and with the target market. 

Example: 

Back in 1989, Fiat found out that cars with engines of 1000cc and smaller had big tax reductions. They immediately launched the Uno Mille. It was a regular Fiat Uno, but with their old 1050cc engine reduced to just under 1000cc. 

It was useless to talk about power, the car had any, but sold in huge numbers. It created a new segment, the so called 1.0 cars. 

They soon dominated the market, as they were very cheap. 

Thing is, without the heavier taxes the cars with larger engines had, the car didn't have to be very simple to be cheap, but since the target market was the buyer of cheapo cars, cheapo they were. 

The Uno Mille didn't have a passenger side sun visor, didn't have a glove box cover, no radio, no carpeting, bare steel wheels, and so on. Even the right side mirror was optional. Even tough, the car costed the same as a regular Uno, less the extra taxes. Fiat was selling a bare bones car, fo a lot more it was worth, and people would buy it as it was "cheaper".

They had a target market, and made use of it. 

 

[Lovefordgalaxie]

 

[iamsuperdan]

A lot of people (not just here, but in general) seem to equate size with value. We see the comments all the time. "Oh the Colorado is the same price as a Silverado. Why buy the Tacoma, when you can get the Tundra for the same price?"

The smaller truck suits many people's lifestyles better. Maybe they don't tow, or require lots of payload, or they live in an apartment with a parkade. But they still need something that can easily carry a couple of mountain bikes, or large dogs. Or whatever.

You get all of the same features, but in a smaller package. Yes, it's the same cost, but you're not really comparing the same things. A 1/4 ton truck is not the same as a 1/2 ton, which in turn is not the same as a 3/4 ton. And you can get a half ton for almost the same price as a 3/4 ton these days.

 

ANyway, that was kind of off topic, but it's more on topic than the geography lesson. 

[Art Anderson]

I've been sitting here, smiling away!  When I spotted this 2000 V6 long box Dakora on the little used car lot that's just a block up the street from me, stickered at $4400, with stated mileage less than 25K, I looked it over, then sat back, and watched it for about 2 weeks, finally walked, chatted with the dealer (a guy I've know for nearly 50 yrs), made him an offer of $4-grand,  took a fairly long test drive, and came home with it. It runs like a scalded dog,  iron V6 has more than enough power, starts at the turn of the key.   I generally don't drive more than perhaps 3500 miles a year.  Looked at the title history (original owner kept it garaged in a small town not far from me, turned out to be a neighbor of a long-time model car buddy--who vouched for the great care given it.  It's just now turned the OD past 30K, so I figure I got a great deal on it.  Great on the highway too.

Art

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, Art Anderson said:

I've been sitting here, smiling away!  When I spotted this 2000 V6 long box Dakora on the little used car lot that's just a block up the street from me, stickered at $4400, with stated mileage less than 25K, I looked it over, then sat back, and watched it for about 2 weeks, finally walked, chatted with the dealer (a guy I've know for nearly 50 yrs), made him an offer of $4-grand,  took a fairly long test drive, and came home with it...

 

Yessir. THAT'S how you buy a truck.