Acrylics for car finishes?

[Daf57]

Hi all,

 

Made the move to acrylics (Vallejo, Tamiya, etc...) some time back - due to ease of clean up and indoor use. It works well, for me, for my mecha and ma.k models. But not so much for realistic auto body finishes. It's a much less durable finish and I can't seem to manage the sanding/polishing - even with multiple well cured coats the least bit of sanding will quickly get you back to plastic. That's even with a clear coat and very fine sand paper. Without the sanding/polishing it dull at best.

Has anyone been able to get a good factory shine using acrylics? Or should I go back to the enamels for that purpose?

Thanks!

Daf

[Miatatom]

I tried them and went back to lacquer for the bodies. I use acrylics on the chassis and interiors.

[Bainford]

I mostly use enamel for bodies and sometimes lacquer. Acrylic paint has many fans in the model world so, figuring it was high time I gave it a try, I painted a recent build with Tamiya acrylic (white). It will probably be the last time. I had multiple issues, some during polishing. I was able to achieve a decent finish, eventually, but during the wet sanding process (I  do the first part of the polishing with Micro Mesh pads) I would leave significant thumb and finger prints in the paint which became softened from the polishing water. In fact, any time I handled the polished body, especially if I had to grip it for a few minutes, the moisture from my fingers would leave fingerprints etched in the paint. I also found that decal solvent would mark the paint to the point that only polishing would remove it.

There were other issues as well which I documented, but I don't have my notes with me right now. Bottom line; if any alternatives exist, I won't be using acrylics for painting bodies again.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Bainford

[Daf57]

Hey thanks, guys. I had the same issues with the softening along with the other issues I mentioned. I think I'll go back to enamels/lacquers for high gloss finishes. Maybe it's possible with acrylics but it's certainly more trouble than worth.

 

Thanks again!

Daf

[rsxse240]

All Testors acrylic, wetsanded and polished.

The trick was to get enough layers to build up a workable thickness.  But the key is to have a perfect base on which you are spraying over.  Make sure your primer coat is flawless and smooth, not just out of the can.  Then wetsand your base color after it has been thoroughly cured.  Acrylic paint sprays so thin that it takes forever to build up a good workable surface but it has so many advantages over enamel and lacquer paint.  But there are drawbacks too like: clean up, clogging up your airbrush, learning to use it, just to name a few pros and cons.

[Daf57]

Thanks, Ken! That looks great!

[Bucket T]

I've had good luck with Createx and FasColor acrylics.  Can't remember what rattle can clear I used tho but it worked just fine.

[Miatatom]

1 hour ago, Bucket T said:

I've had good luck with Createx and FasColor acrylics.  Can't remember what rattle can clear I used tho but it worked just fine.

I wrote that I don't use acrylics but I have used Created with sucess. If they're acrylics, they don't spray like it. Hybrid acrylics?

[Cornpatch]

 I use Createx or Wicked Colors all of the time. Couple of reasons, 1. can paint in the basement with out any smell going through the house.  2. ease of cleanup.   Between the 2 paints I can get almost any color that I want.

 I also use Createx clear and it's just like any other clear, put it on let it dry and polish it out. Createx also makes a dull coating for when you want that flat look.

 Createx is airbrush ready and can be sprayed right from the bottle. It's good for people that don't have a place to paint in the winter. I used it when we lived in an apartment building with never one complant.

[Miatatom]

From my experience, when using any of the Createx or Wicked paints, they should be reduced with 4012 reducer as well as 4030 balancing clear. That's what the Createx people recommend on their website for spraying onto hard surfaces. I follow their directions and it works for me.

[John Pol]

5 hours ago, Cornpatch said:

 I use Createx or Wicked Colors all of the time. Couple of reasons, 1. can paint in the basement with out any smell going through the house.  2. ease of cleanup.   Between the 2 paints I can get almost any color that I want.

 I also use Createx clear and it's just like any other clear, put it on let it dry and polish it out. Createx also makes a dull coating for when you want that flat look.

 Createx is airbrush ready and can be sprayed right from the bottle. It's good for people that don't have a place to paint in the winter. I used it when we lived in an apartment building with never one complant.

I just bought some Auto Air so your saying you don`t have to thin it at all I have Paasche H airbrush if so what preasure do you use for it?

[aurfalien]

Well, I've tried to gently wet sand Vallejo and Tamiya acrylics but acrylics seem a bit rubbery/latexy.

I suppose if you do a perfect spray then one would never ever need to sand/polish.

I only wished that I were that good.

 

[Dave G.]

1 hour ago, John Pol said:

I just bought some Auto Air so your saying you don`t have to thin it at all I have Paasche H airbrush if so what preasure do you use for it?

Here is a suggestion for you. Get yourself two little mixing cups. In one put in some milk. In the other put in some AutoAir of the color you want to use. Get yourself a mixing stick, a length of sprue tree will be sufficient. Mix the milk around, slosh it up the sides of the cup, watch how it runs back down, note the film it leaves behind on the cup sides, drip it off the end of the stick, really look it over as you do this till you know what it looks like. Now do the same with the paint ( any paint you go to use not just this auto air, least till you get used to that consistency). You want the paint to be the same viscosity as the milk, thin accordingly until it acts like the milk. Regular milk will work but the perfect consistency/viscosity is 2% milk. And I don't care if the paint company says it's ready to spray or not ! Like Badger Synylrez is ready to spray and it will spray, but really it's a bit too thick. It will spray but it will spray better thinned a little bit.

 

Pretty sure you will find AutoAir needs some thinner ( their own dedicated thinner) and will work best with some 4030 added first, up to 15% or so ( aids in sticking to plastics and flow out on hard surfaces).. In a Paashce H 30 psi, no less than 28 psi working pressure. So if you get a drop in pressure at 30 psi  when you push the air button that drops the pressure below 28 psi with air flowing, boost the pressure up a lb or 2 till your flowing or so called working pressure is 28 or higher..

End of suggestion.

[Miatatom]

1 hour ago, Dave G. said:

Pretty sure you will find AutoAir needs some thinner ( their own dedicated thinner) and will work best with some 4030 added first, up to 15% or so ( aids in sticking to plastics and flow out on hard surfaces).. In a Paashce H 30 psi, no less than 28 psi working pressure. So if you get a drop in pressure at 30 psi  when you push the air button that drops the pressure below 28 psi with air flowing, boost the pressure up a lb or 2 till your flowing or so called working pressure is 28 or higher..

End of suggestion.

Sounds like good advice.

4 hours ago, Miatatom said:

From my experience, when using any of the Createx or Wicked paints, they should be reduced with 4012 reducer as well as 4030 balancing clear. That's what the Createx people recommend on their website for spraying onto hard surfaces. I follow their directions and it works for me.

As I posted above, you have to thin this stuff.

Use their thinners.

Use them like they say to use them.

Don't look for shortcuts with this stuff.

Mix it and spray it like they say to.

Once you spray it on, you CAN NOT sand it until you cover it with some sort of clear.

Those are not my opinions, they are the directions that the folks at Createx put on their website to explain how to use their products. They work and they're good. Here's their website. https://createxcolors.com/ There's a couple of hours of reading and videos that will tell you everything you need to know about their products. I have absolutely zero financial interest in Createx nor do I know anyone that works there. They just make good paint that work for a multitude of applications. Pretty cool stuff really.

I've been on an extended honey do list project and haven't built anything lately (before summer). I finished the paint on a 917K Porsche at that time and it turned out great. The decals were another story.  It was my first time using Createx products, not counting a couple of trial and errors that failed. Another bonus of Createx, it strips easy if you mess up. Whenever I get back to the bench, they'll be my go to paint.

[Cornpatch]

I have to go along with the other gentleman,  Yes I do thin the Createx and Wicked using Createx's own thinner.

Really it depends on what I am panting and how I am painting it. If I am air brushing it. yes I thin most of the colors. If I am brushing it on no I don't thin it.

 I also use a couple of different Paashce Air Brushes. As far as air pressure goes I spray between 30 and 32 and sometimes I will go up a notch or to.  Also have to go along with with the steps that  Mr Shirley said to do. Createx and Wicked are great paints if you use them the right way.

[Dave G.]

I've gone more and more to craft paints since diving into acrylics over the last 18 months or so. Stynlrez primers and usually Liquitex gloss varnish clear coat. But by adding 10% or so of Liquitex satin varnish into many of several different craft paints I find that to improve flex and adhesion/chip resistance. I heat set it then put it aside overnight before continuing on.. The finish on a car body is accomplished with clear coats with acrylics though, don't try to rub out the color coat. If someone wants to have a color buffed up and no clear coat stick with solvent based paints, at least IMO so far.

Interiors I add a little more varnish to the paint to get the flat acrylics to the sheen I want, then that I do not clear coat.

For thinning craft paints I've made my own thinner after experimenting with various brands and other peoples formulas etc. They spray pretty nice when mixed right and shot in proper temps and at correct pressure. The thinner is fine in the paints but Liquitex clear coat requires it's own airbrush medium as they call it because it will haze with other stuff and might fish eye as well, depending on the product used in it.. So on the acrylic front I'm going more and more this way. I've left most of the hobby brands behind at this point, not to say I won't ever use them but so far, why ?. However, what I do may not be everyone's cup of tea, I realize that.

I also spray nail polishes which is lacquer. I'm working on a less fussy lacquer thinner for them. Right now what works best is Kleen Strip hardware store medium dry thinner. I'm going to add a little xylene to that to slow the dry some more and see what happens. I decant Rustolium clear lacquer and spray that with the airbrush when I want a clear coat. Thus far with this set up I've gotten spectacular results on my test prescription bottles but not painted a model with it yet. But you have to get the pressure and distance just right, hoping slowing the dry will be more forgiving. Why nail polish ? Because there are a few colors I see nowhere else and they gloss up gorgeous.

[Goodwrench3]

On 1/8/2019 at 11:08 AM, Cornpatch said:

 I use Createx or Wicked Colors all of the time. Couple of reasons, 1. can paint in the basement with out any smell going through the house.  2. ease of cleanup.   Between the 2 paints I can get almost any color that I want.

 I also use Createx clear and it's just like any other clear, put it on let it dry and polish it out. Createx also makes a dull coating for when you want that flat look.

 Createx is airbrush ready and can be sprayed right from the bottle. It's good for people that don't have a place to paint in the winter. I used it when we lived in an apartment building with never one complant.

 

What kind of airbrush are you using with the Createx ?   needle ?   air pressure  ?

I'm trying to switch to acrylics in the winter because my wife has had 3 sinus surgeries and cannot tolerate ANY whif of solvent based paints.

Thanks

 

[Miatatom]

I spray Createx and Wicked paints with a Procon Boy PS290.

[aurfalien]

On 1/1/2019 at 6:57 PM, Daf57 said:

Hi all,

 

Made the move to acrylics (Vallejo, Tamiya, etc...) some time back - due to ease of clean up and indoor use. It works well, for me, for my mecha and ma.k models. But not so much for realistic auto body finishes. It's a much less durable finish and I can't seem to manage the sanding/polishing - even with multiple well cured coats the least bit of sanding will quickly get you back to plastic. That's even with a clear coat and very fine sand paper. Without the sanding/polishing it dull at best.

Has anyone been able to get a good factory shine using acrylics? Or should I go back to the enamels for that purpose?

Thanks!

Daf

Well, I'm contemplating Mission Models Paints;

https://web.ipmsusa3.org/content/mission-models-paint-thinner-polyurethane-primer-and-paint-part-1

https://dnmodels.com/all/mission-models-us-acrylics/

I've read a few sources stating that more colors are planned.  My only reluctance is that all of the positive reviews of this paint are by builders of military subject matter.

And automotive finishes are very different then military finishes.

Edited January 31, 2019 by aurfalien

[Tommy124]

Has anyone used the clear coat from Mission Models so far?

https://www.missionmodelsus.com/collections/clear-coats

I have heard only good things about these colors. Myself, I did only do a test spraying yellow so far, but that was nice and easy...

 

Edit: I saw Brian's post just now... 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Tommy124

[aurfalien]

11 minutes ago, Tommy124 said:

Has anyone used the clear coat from Mission Models so far?

https://www.missionmodelsus.com/collections/clear-coats

I have heard only good things about these colors. Myself, I did only do a test spraying yellow so far, but that was nice and easy...

 

Edit: I saw Brian's post just now... 

Do you mind posting some pics?

Do you see it as a good automotive finish?

[Tommy124]

Nothing to show about that, Brian. As I said, I just sprayed some yellow onto a spoon, to see how smoothly the paint will flow through the AB and if the finish is really "eggshell" and hard, as they say. It is and the spraying was fine. I bought a bunch of colors in the second step last summer but for some reason have not done more intensive testing so far. One major point for me will be the gloss coat. What's the finish like, is it sandable, polishable etc.? I should take the opportunity now... 

[aurfalien]

18 minutes ago, Tommy124 said:

Nothing to show about that, Brian. As I said, I just sprayed some yellow onto a spoon, to see how smoothly the paint will flow through the AB and if the finish is really "eggshell" and hard, as they say. It is and the spraying was fine. I bought a bunch of colors in the second step last summer but for some reason have not done more intensive testing so far. One major point for me will be the gloss coat. What's the finish like, is it sandable, polishable etc.? I should take the opportunity now... 

Ah yes, this will be invaluable info.  I look forward to what you find.

From what I've read, one can wet sand with 3200 grit and higher.  Apparently there polyurethane mix is a must.

[Cornpatch]

13 hours ago, Goodwrench3 said:

 

What kind of airbrush are you using with the Createx ?   needle ?   air pressure  ?

I'm trying to switch to acrylics in the winter because my wife has had 3 sinus surgeries and cannot tolerate ANY whif of solvent based paints.

Thanks

 

I use a couple of different Paashce Air Brushes      1 has a #3 needle in it and the other one has a # 5 needle.  My air pressure will be between 25 and 32 depending on what I am painting. I usually try to thin the paint down to the same as milk but that don't always happen.  Sometimes I just use it straight from the bottle. But that's what works for me, you just have to remember that everybody has their own way when using an air brush.

                                                                                  Jeff

[Intmd8r]

On 1/5/2019 at 1:23 AM, rsxse240 said:

Then wetsand your base color after it has been thoroughly cured.  

I am in the process of experimenting with Testors Acrylic paint and sharing the some of the frustration in the post.  What has been you experience with curing time?  I know elements like temperature and humidity are a factor, but I'm looking more of a baseline to start with.