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Scalefinishes says there basecoat and enamels no longer compatible with tamiya primer?


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Haven't used Tamiya primer with basecoats, but have used Mr surfacer and others with no issues.  So I'm wondering what the compatibility issue is all of a sudden? He's also offering a free bottle of his primer with orders until July 31st because he no longer recommends his paint with ANY other primer.  Thoughts & Opinions?

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Sounds like a little testing might be called for, using different primers. It might cost a few pennies for the basecoat, but in the long run, it might keep trouble down to a minimum.

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18 minutes ago, Dpate said:

Haven't used Tamiya primer with basecoats, but have used Mr surfacer and others with no issues.  So I'm wondering what the compatibility issue is all of a sudden? He's also offering a free bottle of his primer with orders until July 31st because he no longer recommends his paint with ANY other primer.  Thoughts & Opinions?

I don't know what the issue might be, but I've used Scale Finishes lacquer base coat over Duplicolor primer on numerous occasions.

They're probably just trying to avoid complaints about incompatibility, even if it's not necessarily a problem.

You know how people can get when they screw something up.

They like to find someone other than themselves to blame.

This way they can say "I told you so".

 

I'll still be using the same primer I always use.

Call me a risk taker! :D

 

 

 

Steve

 

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5 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

...You know how people can get when they screw something up.

They like to find someone other than themselves to blame.

Surely adults don't do that...

Oh, wait...

Never mind.

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3 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Surely adults don't do that...

Oh, wait...

Never mind.

I remember a thread on this very board not too long ago where a guy messed up a Testors enamel paint job and then went on and on for days about how terrible the paint was and how it "HAD" to be "bad paint", and then proceeded to ask for, and then entirely ignore everyone's advice on airbrushing.

I wonder what happened to that guy.

It was sooooo much fun!! :lol:

 

 

 

Steve

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I can see the hotter automotive lacquers maybe upsetting the milder primers like Tamiya. But not so much the enamel. As to Duplicolor that's made to be under hot automotive lacquer anyway.

I suspect Mr Color to be a bit hotter than Tamiya as well.

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1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I remember a thread on this very board not too long ago where a guy messed up a Testors enamel paint job and then went on and on for days about how terrible the paint was and how it "HAD" to be "bad paint", and then proceeded to ask for, and then entirely ignore everyone's advice on airbrushing.

I wonder what happened to that guy.

It was sooooo much fun!! :lol:

 

 

 

Steve

BTW, it was Rustoleum.

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I've never had luck with enamel over lacquer primer.  No matter how much prep I'd put into getting it ready for paint (wet sanding the primer), the lacquer primer would seem to let the enamel top coat soak in, leaving it dull.  My solution was to use lacquer with lacquer, enamel with enamel.

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8 hours ago, Dave G. said:

I can see the hotter automotive lacquers maybe upsetting the milder primers like Tamiya. But not so much the enamel. As to Duplicolor that's made to be under hot automotive lacquer anyway.

I suspect Mr Color to be a bit hotter than Tamiya as well.

I've actually used my tamiya white primer I've had for awhile now on a current build I'm working on.  I'm using almost all MCW paint on it as well and no issues at all.  So is scalefinises hotter than MCW?

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8 hours ago, Mark said:

I've never had luck with enamel over lacquer primer.  No matter how much prep I'd put into getting it ready for paint (wet sanding the primer), the lacquer primer would seem to let the enamel top coat soak in, leaving it dull.  My solution was to use lacquer with lacquer, enamel with enamel.

Is there such a thing as "enamel primer".  It seems to me that it would not be a good primer if you had to wait for weeks for the it to harden.  Remember. enamels have multiple stages of "drying". First, the solvent evaporates, then the binder hardens over time by a chemical reaction with the surrounding oxygen.  Primers (in my experience) all dry very fast.  Actually I suspect that primers are their own type of coatings. They are neither lacquers or enamels.

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36 minutes ago, Dpate said:

I've actually used my tamiya white primer I've had for awhile now on a current build I'm working on.  I'm using almost all MCW paint on it as well and no issues at all.  So is scalefinises hotter than MCW?

No I doubt it, they're both automotive grade to my knowledge.

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27 minutes ago, peteski said:

Is there such a thing as "enamel primer".  It seems to me that it would not be a good primer if you had to wait for weeks for the it to harden.  Remember. enamels have multiple stages of "drying". First, the solvent evaporates, then the binder hardens over time by a chemical reaction with the surrounding oxygen.  Primers (in my experience) all dry very fast.  Actually I suspect that primers are their own type of coatings. They are neither lacquers or enamels.

There definitely are enamel primers.

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1 hour ago, Dave G. said:

No I doubt it, they're both automotive grade to my knowledge.

Now i got to buy more tamiya primer so i can do some testing - because this just seems weird to me.  Unless tamiya is changing up the formula and we just haven't got a can of it yet. 

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1 hour ago, peteski said:

Is there such a thing as "enamel primer".  It seems to me that it would not be a good primer if you had to wait for weeks for the it to harden.  Remember. enamels have multiple stages of "drying". First, the solvent evaporates, then the binder hardens over time by a chemical reaction with the surrounding oxygen.  Primers (in my experience) all dry very fast.  Actually I suspect that primers are their own type of coatings. They are neither lacquers or enamels.

Yes, there ARE enamel primers.

When I started painting real cars, cheap shops were still using synthetic enamel topcoats, and some of the primers were enamel.

Vintage Wizard Automobile Enamel Primer Can Car Advertising Western ...      image.jpeg.2ce71f702f7f334b43e08033165a69fc.jpeg

Enamel primers are typically NON-sanding, because of their drying characteristics.

I've had all kinds of problems trying to topcoat a urethane repair when some doofus had previously shot hardened acrylic enamel or acrylic urethane over a synthetic enamel primer.

You can get away with it once, sometimes, but when the repair topcoat hits it, the previous topcoat wrinkles like you shot paint stripper on it.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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3 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Yes, there ARE enamel primers.

When I started painting real cars, cheap shops were still using synthetic enamel topcoats, and some of the primers were enamel.

Good to know, but is that something that nowadays is also sold in spray cans?  That can looks to be 70 years old!  I don't recall anybody mentioning (in our model car circles) stating that they specifically were using enamel primer.   Usually just generic stuff from car parts stores, Walmart, or other similar source, or some hobby primer made by one of the hobby companies.  None (as I recall) seem to mention what type of primer they are.

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7 minutes ago, peteski said:

Good to know, but is that something that nowadays is also sold in spray cans?  That can looks to be 70 years old!  I don't recall anybody mentioning (in our model car circles) stating that they specifically were using enamel primer.   Usually just generic stuff from car parts stores, Walmart, or other similar source, or some hobby primer made by one of the hobby companies.  None (as I recall) seem to mention what type of primer they are.

If you have a lifetime of experience, all you have to do is smell it to know what it is.

Paint product labeling actually used to be better, but since most consumers don't have a clue as to what enamel or lacquer or much of anything else is, the can labeling is getting dumber with every passing year...along with the consumers.

Lacquer primers used to say whet they were, but today, not so much.

And all that differentiates lacquer from enamel is the carrier and the binder.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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Next time you are at a paint store, check out all of the spray can primers...you're bound to find enamel.

Testors used to sell a Model Master primer which was enamel.  Pactra had a very dark gray called Hot Rod Primer.  I have three or four unused cans that are getting the occasional vigorous several minute shake, and I'll be trying one out as soon as I come up with a worthy project.  That primer might get a dull clear coat over it, but not paint.

 

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5 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

If you have a lifetime of experience, all you have to do is smell it to know what it is.

Well then, we'll just have to trust our noses. :)

Funny that in all those years with plenty of often started threads about which primer is the best, nobody seems to have mentioned enamel vs. lacquer primers.

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3 minutes ago, Mark said:

Next time you are at a paint store, check out all of the spray can primers...you're bound to find enamel.

Ok, so no specific example, brand or type.  I don't recall anybody on the forum ever mentioning or worrying whether the primer was enamel or lacquer. And like Ace mentioned, I doubt the label will state which primer is inside.

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Just now, peteski said:

Well then, we'll just have to trust our noses. :)

Funny that in all those years with plenty of often started threads about which primer is the best, nobody seems to have mentioned enamel vs. lacquer primers.

Almost all the "sandable" automotive rattlecan primers are lacquers.

And the subject of one-part putties, just thick lacquer primers, has been discussed to death.

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2 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Almost all the "sandable" automotive rattlecan primers are lacquers.

And the subject of one-part putties, just thick lacquer primers, has been discussed to death.

Sure (that was my thought all along - for the reasons I explained earlier), but here the "enamel"seems to be the buzzword of the day.

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Every so often, someone here or elsewhere discovers an enamel primer, when they try to shoot lacquer on top of it.

The cheap store brand primers, and the basic Rust-Oleum (non-automotive) primers are enamel.

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Just now, Mark said:

Every so often, someone here or elsewhere discovers an enamel primer, when they try to shoot lacquer on top of it.

The cheap store brand primers, and the basic Rust-Oleum (non-automotive) primers are enamel.

Yup. 

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