jbwelda

cheers spotty, sounds like you and me think along the same lines when it comes to cars! I took some pics of the southeast finecast V8 kit and the mini exotics lotus twin cam as seen in the thames, and will post them in the car kit reviews forum later this evening. keep your eyes peeled, you may be the only one interested! oh yeah forgot to mention, do post pics of your jag powered one, love to see it. I wish I had put the V8 into the Thames but I don't think I had it at the time and I wanted to semi recreate a car I saw over in London a few years ago.

bmw dixi eh? http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=52586&hl=dixi the fan belt material is just Tamiya tape colored with a sharpie. not great but it serves the purpose. the rover/morgan/mg motor is from southeast finecast of England, white metal and about the price of a whole kit if I remember right. worth it for the valve covers and Morgan exhaust system alone. exhaust system can be adapted to many uses: or used as intended: thames panel roughly as suggested in this thread:

Somewhere here I recently read that the reissued AMT 40 Ford had a Buick Nailhead engine as an option, and as I have recently been hankering to build one of those, and I happened to have just that kit on the shelf (for conversion to R&R Resin El Matador by the way), I dug it out and took a look. Not much to write home about but the shape seemed decent and I always loved the vertical valve covers so why not. I don't have anything to put it in at the moment so I just used the kit supplied engine stand (a true classic) and set it on the shelf with some other engines (eg: Morgan/Rover/MG variant of similar design later lightweight Buick V8, and Revell front mount blower 283 from Mooneyes Dragster). Heres some pics some descriptions of what got used where: some stuff used: parts by parks turned aluminum pulley set detail master turned aluminum distributor (correctly wired to keep Don on his toes) Replicas and Miniatures of Maryland 6-2 bbl carbs, manifold and curved intake stacks scratchbuilt generator and bracket with parts by parks pulley tony nancy nailhead exhaust pipes, tips drilled and only white glued on in case I want to use the motor for a build with more conservative exhaust system wired and fuel lines plumbed though no carb linkages (just got a magnifier visor though so might start attempting that fine of stuff soon but no way am I attempting moving butterflies) man these macro photos are BRUTAL! posed with its British cousin: thanks for looking and any comments cheerfully fielded!

At this point let me talk about the engine for the build...the natural path at this point is of course to go with the Revell parts pack 283 Chevy which was also included in the actual kit and matches the real car motor in most all aspects. So that's what I started with. Long story short, numerous problems were encountered along the way: the motor appears pretty complex on the trees, with a bottom flat part including molded in crankshaft (yeah real useful...maybe diorama material), two upper block parts, left and right, and two heads on top of them. Now the problem is one of foresight: I found if you line the two upper block parts up with the bottom part in the back, the front edges don't even come close to mating. if you line the two upper block parts up with the bottom in the front, the bell housing will not snug against the rear of the block properly. note there are no locating tabs to help out here. so I located the upper parts halfway front to rear on the lower part. this left a big horizontal seam across the front of the motor and along its sides. I hoped this would be hidden by the big blower plate that goes on the front of the motor. wrongo boyo. as my daddy used to say, if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride. but it took me a while to realize how funky the front of the motor looked and by then I had mounted the heads (molded in valve train detail, again not of much use short of a diorama) and painted the block Testors Daytona Yellow ( a color I think I will end up using for the body, though originally I was going to use Tamiya chrome yellow but I think the Daytona yellow is a better match for the real car...but I digress continually). At this point I started becoming concerned about the length of this motor/supercharger/transmission combination. The blower supplied with the motor was longer than the engine block! looked totally out of scale (though as an afterthought if you look at photos of the original real thing, that blower IS pretty darn long!). and the transmission totally looks like a street rodder tranny and not likely the sort of thing that was in the original dragster (don't have a good photo at hand to illustrate what I mean) and it was WAY too long to fit comfortably between the motor and the passenger compartment and leave room for the rear axle. So I considered cutting off the end section of the trans as a compromise and so that was my active plan to combat that problem. I guess I haven't mentioned there is a crossmember for the frame that fits between the motor and the blower, and thereby places the motor fore to aft in the frame, and for which there are no locating tabs and barely a hint of where it is to go in the instructions. and that a moon tank has to fit on the mounts forward of the motor, and the motor should be running a horizontal fuel pump in front of the blower. In all fairness I should point out that I was planning on using a 9" Ford style rear end I found in my parts box, on the mistaken assumption that the photo I posted above of the reproduction was the actual real thing. as it turns out, and as evidenced by the hot rod magazine photo from above, a halibrand qc was indeed appropriate, Revell is correct, and the QC is definitely shorter than the 9", when measuring from wheel centerline to the nose, and that would gain a good 1/8" inch in length available to the drivetrain ahead of it. here is a photo of the two pieces, the qc has not yet been trimmed for width and the 9" was only roughly trimmed. oh, that is a toothpick shoved up the, uh, nose of the item on the right and for position only. all that adds up to pretty much more length than there is in the frame from the firewall to the front axle and from the firewall back to the rear axle. but as I mentioned I imagined I could so some skillful sculpting to reduce length and/or mount the moon tank up over the fuel pump like it appears the modeler whose build I featured above had done. but that appears to be only correct for the repro car and not the original which as you can see in the photos above of the real cars. I mounted the blower and discovered that my placing the heads midship on the length of the engine block had caused the hoses (always the curse of this particular set up in my model building, as a kid I NEVER could get these things lined up and looking nice) to sit back of the holes for them by about 1/16" (same distance the heads are offset from front of block) and I therefore had to cut off the mounting pegs and kinda sorta center them over their female recepticles and then use some epoxy to kinda blend them in more. sigh. theres a lesson there somewhere. then one morning I sat back and took a good look at the engine. that big horizontal crack really bugs me and its not covered up at all. and that blower looks way out of scale with the motor (though as I mentioned maybe not). and I am going to have to hack that stupid (actually very nicely detailed) transmission off and that's gonna look dumb no matter how much epoxy I try to use to blend in. then I fit it in the frame and some rather unseen shortcomings became apparent and this is a good time to use the picture is worth a thousand words parable: along about now I start thinking maybe there are some other projects that I should be attending to, so I build a simple little engine stand, set the motor on it and set it aside, but I do bring it to our model club meeting and put it on the table. Fellow correspondent here, Don V, of the House of Jaguar, happens to mention, in the nicest way possible, how that motor isn't going to do justice to what I have been talking of the rest of the project, and I had to agree with him. so on the stand it rests in a line with some other motors in the display case, and meanwhile I need to figure out what exactly to do for a motor, there have gotta be some narrower options and perhaps a better suited transmission in a kit on my shelf. few more pics of the motor on the stand just for the heck of it: one last thing, go look at the rear facing photos of the reproduction cars exhaust pipes. what do you see? little moon eyes plugs up inside each exhaust pipe. that's what I want. at this point I can definitely add some building tips for the next modeler who wants to build this motor, either for a separate project or for this dragster: 1 line up all the engine parts to the FORWARD edge of the motor, and then seal and sand the seam out of existence. 2. be prepared for no defined attachment points, and perhaps use white glue the first time through for external parts of the engine. 3. next time I would proceed with the blower and pipes by positioning the heads as described in no 1, then attaching the pipes to the manifold using epoxy and finish and paint at this point. to align them with the blower without committing yourself to an exact position, because at this point everything is very fiddly and you have the glue the pipes UP UNDER the manifold overhang, which I find very difficult to do without making a mess of it, I would white glue the blower to the front of the engine and align your hoses, epoxy them to the manifold, then epoxy the blower to the front plate and slide the manifold front to rear to get the pipes into alignment with their holes on the intake box, right side of blower. 4. also be prepared for a LOT of sprue damage clean up in the most inopportune places and a lot of parts just not fitting very well given the thick chrome finish (unfortunately the real thing had significant chrome plating that has to be replicated). 5. consider finding a shorter, more drag race correct, transmission 6. be prepared to deal with the length problem as well as the width problem.i would probably try to narrow the motor injector stacks but there isn't much wiggle room on that side or the other which is pushing the frame edge too. and the block itself is very very close to too wide to fit comfortably in the frame, plan accordingly and not sure what to suggest for this problem. as to the length the transmission change should cover it for the back but in the front youre going to have to decide if you want to run a correct fuel pump or do as the instrux suggest (by omission) and leave it off. Or raise the tank above the built in mounts and let it sit above the pump. 7. even though the exhaust system looks gnarly, it actually goes together very nicely. I didn't drill out the tips, just blackened them with a sharpie. they are small and delicate so a steady hand is going to be the only way. knowing these "gotcha"s in advance will allow one to build a nice motor from the Revell parts pack but as for this one, its onto the shelf and the search begins for a replacement. alright thanks for hanging in there and will be continued.

killer!

>did you replicate someone's real car? only in my mind!

Its magic! plus at 150 kph in 1/24 the hood doesn't budge! yeah it would, originally I was going to use hood pins in the four corners but didn't get enthused enough to follow thru. problem with hood straps is there wouldn't be anywhere to strap to unless you went all the way down to the remnant of the original fenders but that might actually look ok. know where to get any appropriate photo etch buckles?

> I do think you are being a little over critical of a model kit molded in an era when they were considered toys. I don't. I am just telling what I am running up against. These parts pack kits were never known to be anywhere near perfect and as pointed out elsewhere at some time, they didn't really fit without a lot of fiddling. So I was prepared for that, I am just telling it like it is. >Some modifications to old race cars are done because if you want to race the thing it still has to pass safety >tech and track insurance rigs. Again, I think maybe you are not seeing what I was trying to point out, and that is when someone says the reproduction is "dead on" to the original, which I read more than once in researching the car and in fact actually believed before beginning, it should be "dead on" or that term just doesn't mean anything. And in this case the original and the reproduction are quite far apart, and that is what I meant to point out. I do realize there are reasons for these discrepancies but the fact remains: they are quite different in some fairly major ways. That said there is always the possibility that the "original" evolved after certain photos were taken and that evolution could have taken the original closer to the repro than early photos show. Just wanted to clear those things up, I am not here to downgrade Revells offerings of the 60s, I think everyone knows the deal there and even today demanding a given kit actually reproduce the prototype seems too much to ask. But some of this might come as a surprise to someone thinking of building this car. I know that I have seen numerous references to "I think I will do a quick build of that Mooneyes" and I intend to point out that perhaps this is not the best subject to do a quick build of. Same goes with evaluating a build of it like the one I posted above; many might look at it and think "that's a pretty nice box stock build" or "I could put that thing together in a few hours" and not realize the research and work that obviously went into it. Thanks for wading through my posts though, I am getting a bit long winded in this thread but that will taper off shortly when I catch up with where I am at and then put it on the shelf for 6 months!

In my rush to get something done I broke out the airbrush and shot the chassis with Tamiya Acrylic Yellow and it looked pretty good, so I shot some Pearl Clear on it just for kicks and glitters...this was before deciding I needed cross hoops and braces of course. A little out of sequence but here is a shot of the dashboard in the cowl, after trimming the central section out leaving only the sides in place to replicate the dash area on the real thing. As it turns out, all this will be trimmed away eventually anyway and replaced with bits of plastic and aluminum attached to the cross hoops. notice also the wedge of plastic behind where the drivers head would be, it was lopsided from the package with the right side way lower than the left, so I evened it up with scrap plastic before painting. Then, after looking at it, and the reference drawings, and wondering what the heck is THAT supposed to be, I finally decided to just trim it out, and replace it with a new chassis tube, made from brass rod. before, you can see what I am talking about a little better in this shot: here is what had to be trimmed and how it ended up: I have since added the upright tubing (I KNEW I wasn't going to be able to trim it out of the wedge and make it look convincing but it was worth a try I guess) but don't have a photo handy with it in place. Well I'm sure all this is boring everyone so I will wind up on the chassis by saying I still need to bend a forward chassis hoop for the front of the cowl, as well as some smaller braces for the upholstery along with trimming them with some small bits of screen, need to clean up the joints of the cross brace for the steering gear, also if you look at the photos of the real deal you will notice some of that rear tubing is gusseted and I am going to copy some of that as well. I've already begun with the aluminum firewall...after those items are sorted and mounted I will redo the paint with my airbrush and move on. Oh one more thing: if you look at the photos of the real original, you will notice the cowl lines up with the upright tubes where the chassis lifts up for the cowl to rest in front, and continues to the rear where it covers the rear cross hoop/instrument area and continues on for what looks like 3" or so. Well this cowl aint gonna stretch that far so after tearing out the firewall and deciding to make the front hoop, I glued some plastic strip onto the rear of the cowl, about 1/8" (3" in 1/24), to lengthen the cowl to the proper length. If you look at the excellent buildup at the beginning of this thread you will notice that the builder caught all this too and did an excellent job of the resizing and scratch building; I am hoping I can come up to that level. And we can now move to the engine, another struggle mainly of my own making...

With all that preliminary out of the way, I will go on to the actual building of the dragster, and the roundabout process that brought me to the point I am at currently. First lets talk about the frame/chassis. As I mentioned in a post above, the frame, and I am using one from a parts pack, not the actual Mooneyes dragster complete kit, but I have it on authority it is one and the same piece(s), presents its own challenges just getting what is in the package to line up, sync up and otherwise orient so that the resulting seams can be filled and made to look reasonably like tubing. Here are the instrux from the actual kit, courtesy of elsewhere on the web, and it shows the chassis pieces and assembly. Should be a piece of cake! Note the simplicity: two halves, a cross brace with moon tank mount points, a front cross member, firewall, seat, second driver hoop and two body side pieces. Also note that the front suspension mount points hang off the front of the chassis and will have to be chromed somehow, in my case possibly BMF but more probably some Testors chrome brush paint usually suffices. As mentioned it is a bit of a struggle to match up the points of the chassis halves but it can be done with some patience and some filing and adjusting. I did not take many or any photos at this point but here is a later look at how it comes together. not bad, all things considered: (that's the Revell parts pack engine in the background, more on that in another post) Looks pretty good, cowl and all, but closer inspection reveals some problems. For instance the rear lower vertical hoop area where it transitions to horizontal is misshappened and will not allow the body sides to sit close to the frame and parallel to the ground, so some relieving is necessary. After relieving that area and fitting the body side panels better, I started noticing some things that should have been apparent from the photos from the beginning: the missing upper chassis hoops front and rear of the cowl for one, the totally unacceptable dashboard vs what the original seemed to have (very minimal), and some other factors. So I fabricated a rear cross hoop (more on that in a moment), and also a missing cross chassis brace to hold the steering gear etc. The situation with the cross hoops was a complication of my own making. At one point when assembling the cowl halves so I could fill the seam between the two halves, I white glued the firewall and the dashboard to the cowl so to make sure the cowl halves would conform to the items they would ultimately rest against (this was also before I decided to bend cross hoops). But then the next day I must have spaced out because I thought hey those are good there so why not super glue them in. Almost immediately after doing so I came to my senses but it was too late and they had accelerator applied to them and the bond was done. So I left them like that and didn't worry about the hoops, figured they would be covered anyhow. Funny how I can rationalize stupid behavior but there you have it. So anyway once I decided the dashboard would have to be torn out I fabricated the rear brace. Then I finally (doh) realized I didn't want the firewall attached to the cowl either so I finally dremeled it out and am going to fab one from polished aluminum since its supposed to be chrome anyhow. Now I still have to fabricate that front hoop to mount the firewall to. And sometimes I wonder how come it takes me so long to get something done! -continued-

excellent work and I like those Porsche wheels on a bug. with those vents open it will look nicely detailed!

Thanks for the comments so far; one thing I forgot to mention is that these photos were taken before I fabricated some front fender supports (and I used Tim Boyds suggestion on the fenders: epoxy them to the tires and then make the support struts, never would have thought of that and sure made it easy to get them to appear to float just above the tires, thanks again Tim!) anyway, that spare was a southeast finecast photoetch wheel set I had laying around, wasn't planning on using a spare but as the build concluded I thought I needed something back there to disguise the fact the fuel tank didn't fit like I wanted it to and sits up kinda high. with the spare there it looks nice though the spare itself is a bit of a joke because it doesn't match either wheel style on the car! Yep that's the Tamiya Lotus 7 Ford motor in there along with the live rear axle and other running gear from the same kit.

>it's yellow. it's got the eyes. close enough in my book. Right. Well no need to look further then, unless you want to see an AMC Pacer in yellow with eyes because that would be "close enough" too...but not really the point. Thanks for your comment.

So the first thing the sharp eyed reader will notice is that the frame is different, or at least there is one extra vertical hoop behind the rear tires on the replica while there is none on the original. Also notice the original had a Halibrand quick change rear end with a cover on it while the replica appears to have a 9" Ford style rear end. Notice also that the moon tank on the replica sits up in the air above the frame while on the original it is tucked down on the frame. There also appears to be fire suppression equipment under the cowl of the replica but nothing like that on the original (probably due to more strict rules for racing now than then (early 60s)). Also the interior appears very different at least in that there seem to be no or few driver restraints on the original but they are prominent on the replica. Lots more little stuff too that I will leave to the reader to discover. Those are differences between cars but there are many differences between what Revell supplies and what is actually required to build a decent replica of either car...we can start with the fairly laughable attempt at the frame. Revell's frame is missing vertical hoops at front and rear of cowl, has an incorrect dashboard and steering gear, insufficient length on the cowl itself, some dumb moulding in of the rear cage where evidently it is to strengthen the frame or maybe to resemble the interior headrest (which it does not resemble in the least), a cross brace under the cowl for the steering gear to hang off is missing, the seat is a laugh but somewhat serviceable though the tuck and roll upholstery is oriented incorrectly, all the driver padding and bracing is AWOL, and last but not least the fact the frame halves don't really line up very well and end up twisted when one attempts to line them up properly. Such are the challenges facing one who cares how the end result looks. Then there is some of the equipment Revell uses that is just wrong, the most glaring of these is the Revell kit supplies a straight front axle but in all photos the car uses an obviously dropped front axle. Originally I thought they had the rear end wrong too what with supplying a Halibrand QC, but it turned out I was looking at photos of the replica when I decided it really had the Ford rear end. So after a number of false starts I will outline later in the thread, I contacted Mooneyes and they were kind enough to point me to the Hot Rod magazine feature on the car, including a gallery of great photos, which is where I sourced many of the original photos above and more I didn't reproduce here. if youre interested, here is the address: http://www.hotrod.com/hotroddeluxe/hrxp_1207_1961_mooneyes_moon_yellow_a_dragster/photo_02.html Oh and I mentioned I was going to eventually build a race team sort of thing...I am going to basically scratch build a trailer like in one of the photos above beginning with the Revell Midget trailer recently released and just to get snarky I was planning on building a modern Nissan Cube tow vehicle, paint it mooneyes yellow, rob decals from the Hasegawa VW Mooneyes van and use some Moon disks from Parts by Parks, and perhaps chop the top a good 6" or so. This will be a time warp as if the original dragster is being towed by the modern Mooneyes Japanese team, plus I love that Nissan Cube despite what some unevolved individuals may think of it (see thread on most embarrassing cars I think it was, what a laugh, I am embarrassed to be caught in a 57 Cheby much less an AMC Pacer so you can see where my high water mark is). Edit: by the way I was looking around on the Japanese Mooneyes site last night and what would I discover but this Nissan Cube! Honest, I had the idea totally separate from this photos and here I thought I had one original idea in my life but so it goes: but mine will be seriously lowered and like I mentioned I might take a big slice out of the top as well. man I love that asymmetrical rear window and that Ed Roth (one more edit, let me get my references straight here) Outlaw inspired rear lower bodywork on this van! Anyway, comment on and I will start in on showing what I have cooking here, pro and con, after a short break for a word from our sponsors I am sure.

and then we have the "exact" replica: "exact" replica:

OK so I started to seek out sources and the problem I ran into was separating what was the original from the "exact" replica now displayed at the NHRA museum in Pomona. Turns out the real original is also in a museum, the Don Garlits museum in florida but it took me a while to realize how inexact this "exact" replica turned out to be. here are some sample photos for the sharp eyed to check out: original:

So everyone knows of the Revell Mooneyes dragster once available via parts pack or in a double kit. Few realize how off this is from the real thing; and those differences don't become all that apparent until you try to build a reasonable replica of the original. One main problem is that there is at least one "replica" which on close examination is not really a replica at all but more like a near approximation (this despite numerous places where it is claimed it is a "dead on replica" but those people making that claim obviously have not really looked at it too close), so my biggest problem was curbing my enthusiasm while doing some needed research to separate the reality from the fairy tales. Unfortunately I was not able to curb myself sufficiently to really not do work until I know what I am doing and that resulted in a number of significant missteps. I will attempt to show what I have done, what was wrong, what was right, and some of my sources for what I consider "right". One early inspiration was a build of the Mooneyes dragster posted here in one forum or another many years ago (2008?). Here is a photo of it taken from the thread that I used as some inspiration for doing some of the things I do later in the thread. Not all this build is correct but it is very close and a lot of time and research was obviously done to get to this level and it is an award winner in my book and if I come close I will be happy. Photos of build by someone else: There are a number of features to point out in those photos but I will leave that for later in this thread, suffice to say the Revell frame doesn't come close to this build, it is very inadequate in a number of areas. The Revell motor is similarly flawed and I am not sure if that is the engine used in this build because in mine at least there was no way it was fitting into the frame and it looked like garbage anyway. But that is getting ahead of myself. Continued...

see build thread for details: http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70271 thanks for looking and comments, positive, negative, neutral always cheerfully accepted as long as they are somewhat constructive, if not, they are easily ignored.

Back from a long hiatus (all in all, desert exploring in Utah and diving and generally living the high life in Vanuatu ain't a bad exile), this car got done in the meantime, check it out in the Under Glass section, here is a couple quick shots of the done deal:

What comes to mind first? Some piece of trash up on blocks behind the local redneck gas station with the homeless tweaker living in it. And that's being kind.

those stupid pyro Ts bring absolutely NOTHING to the table. pure junk from the word go and best left in their graves.

maybe i dont get it...one barrel carbs are quite common on vws and other "foreign" cars, or were back when carburetor induction systems were used on cars.

> A zeed Frame is : looking at a Ford Frame , the cross section is like the letter "C" or a side ways turned U . To beef these up in the day , >one welded a section of (not sure of the thickness , matched original) (1/4"?) Flat Stock Bar from an outside edge to the fold on the >opposite side where the form changes from Horizontal / Vertical . The cross section profile now resembled a Z well maybe i am way out of my league here but thats not what i have ever thought of as a Zed frame. what i think the term means is to raise the rear (or front but more typically the rear) axle and thereby lower the vehicle by taking a section of the rear frame and moving it up in relation to the rest of the frame and then connecting it with some steel or even just welding it on top of where it was cut, making the frame resemble a "Z" when viewed from the side. perhaps i have been mislead all my life?

>Is this going to be a new kit or what?? hmmm, how many times have we seen box art or "prototype" photos, or even advertising copy, that didnt resemble what was in the kit in the least bit?

thats a totally wild dragster there! youre gonna kill yourself in that thing!