Harry P.

You're welcome!

Not only incapable of turning, but they look like they're scraping the inner side of the body. BTW... why does your location say Perth and Indonesia?

Go to your local home center or home improvement center and ask for some fine mesh aluminum or brass screen. It's much softer than PE parts, bends easily, can be sprayed any color you want and will hold it's shape when glued into place from the back side. Or check this out: http://www.hobbylinc...?source=froogle Also... put your full name in your signature, per forum rules...

Out of the Box puts your basic building skills to the test; there's no place to hide behind a ton of aftermarket jewelry, a fancy paint job or scratchbuilding. It's pure model building skill, and in that regard it can be a tougher category to compete in than most others.

I agree, the numbers aren't there for the big scale guys... which is exactly why I like the "Degree of Difficulty" system that Mark described. Breaking down the entries by degree of difficulty rather than what size they happen to be makes sense to me. Of course, a contest judged on Degree of Difficulty rather than "Best Custom" and "Best Late-Model This" and "Best Open-Wheel that" requires judges who know the judging standards well and can apply the standards fairly and consistently to any model, regardless of scale or subject. That unbiased consistency applied equally to all entries might be a lot to ask of the judges. The upside, though, would be a contest that was actually more of a true judge of modeling skill and less of a simple popularity contest.

I guess my point is... all the big scale models are lumped together into one "catch-all" class... they don't get to compete the same way that 1/24 and 1/25 scale models do... in separate categories. It's almost like a separate contest... the "regular" models all competing in the various classes, with awards in each class or category, and the big guys being forced to all compete in only one class. They are forced to compete differently than all the other ("normal" scale) entries.

Yeah, I got quite the beatdown today...

If they truly are out of the box (except for the custom paint), then you have a choice. You can enter them in Box Stock, or you could enter in another class (Street rod or whatever other class the contest may offer and the models would qualify for). Sometimes you have to think about in which class your model might have the best chance of winning...

The "Degree of Difficulty" system makes a lot of sense, takes away the arbitrary breakdowns according to size, and truly "levels the playing field" for every entrant, regardless of subject matter or scale he/she prefers to build in. Maybe a hybrid: Degree of Difficulty, but also a very few broad category breakdowns: Automobile, Truck, Motorcycle, and maybe "Other." Add Diorama, Kids/Junior Class, Best Auto, Best Truck, Best Motorcycle and Best of Show... and you have all bases covered. Why is such a logical and sensible system not the "standard" at most contests?

Sounds like they may have reformulated the Black Chrome. I know they have a "new and improved" Chrome foil out, good to know that they also fixed that horrible Black Chrome stuff.

"Majority Rules" is a concept I believe in. If the big and small scale guys are at a disadvantage at contests, I guess that's just the way it is.

Interesting. Apparently you guys went out of your way to be inclusive, but the participation in the "other" scales just wasn't there. Your explanation makes sense. And yeah, there's always that "human nature" thing to deal with... For some reason, people seem to think that judging models of different scales (but of the same subject) is somehow inherently unfair, with the big-scale model holding an advantage. But aside from maybe Box Stock or OOB, a large-scale kit doesn't have any particular advantage. If anything, a large-scale builder is at a disadvantage, as the aftermarket for 1/8 scale is practically non-existent compared to the incredible variety of stuff available in 1/24-1/25 scale.

That makes sense to me. It's more logical to break down a contest by subject or category rather than the size of the entry, IMO. (Note to Bluesman Mark: That was strictly my opinion, not an attempt to reorganize your way of thinking. )

I understand that the way things are now are the "standard"... I was just wondering how that particular standard came to be, and what options people who don't build in the "popular" scales might have as far as equal opportunity to compete in any given contest. Not many, apparently. No need to get all emotional and defensive on me there, Mark. I'm just asking perfectly logical questions. Don't worry... I'm not going to try and crash any of your contests.

Bare Metal Foil. But the "black chrome" BMF is no good, it doesn't stick. To answer your question, yes, you can paint over chrome. I do it all the time, have been for 30+ years.

It seems that contests set up to favor one scale and disadvantage other scales are a bit discriminatory, aren't they? Why not various classes for both large scale and small scale too? If there are not enough entries in any given large or small scale classes, no problem, just eliminate that class for that particular event… but at least give people the chance to enter their model and compete fairly. Or just eliminate scale distinctions altogether and let a model of any scale compete in whatever class the builder enters into? Don't mean to stir up trouble... just asking, because to me the way model contests favor one (or two, I guess) scales and force anyone else into some sort of "also-ran" category is inherently biased and unfair for no particular reason that I can see.

Some contests have a whole lot of categories or classes... are all those classes limited to only 1/24-1/25 scale models? Is everything either larger or smaller then lumped together into sort of an "anything and everything else" type of single class... one for large scale and one for small scale?

Would entering a 1/8 scale, full-blown, detailed-to-the-max, 3,000 parts-count Pocher kit into the OOB class be considered bad form? Unfair? Just plain dumb? (Assuming the kit was in fact really built OOB).

If a given contest has an "OOB" or "box stock" class, can any model compete as long as it's within the rules? I mean, do snap kits go head to head with much more detailed kits... kits with opening doors, much higher parts count/greater detail, etc. Is the class limited to one scale?

I'd agree with that. The only possible way I'd ever go to a contest would be as a spectator, not a participant. But of course, I only speak for myself. I know contests and competing against other modelers is a big part of the hobby for a lot of people... heck, for some people it's the whole hobby. I don't have any problem with that. If a person likes to compete, more power to 'em. It's just not for me. And when I hear stories about the cheating and the scamming and the inept judging that goes on at some (not all) contests... well, let's say it doesn't exactly make me any more likely to ever go to one! But that's just me...

Ditto to what everyone else has said. I hope you have a full recovery and are back to building soon.

I have read about all the things I mentioned, many times, from many people who have witnessed them all first hand. Cynical? I Don't think so. I'm just going by what people who have "been there and done that" have all said. And the reports are not particularly encouraging.

All the reasons I just listed are exactly why I don't do the contest thing.

I don't know why people bother entering contests, with all the nonsense that goes on. Rules that say one thing but mean another, "NNLs" that hand out awards, people constantly trying to pull scams, favoritism and/or incompetence by the judges, parents entering a model and claiming their kid built it, etc. Sheesh...

So then what's the difference between OOB and "box stock?" Or are they two different names for the same thing?