Just updated with JoHan/Lindberg/Moebius B-Body Comparo Pix - detailed review of second round test shots of the new Moebius '65 Belvedere Sedan kit...

[horsepower]

The switch from push button to a column shift and the PRNDL shift pattern was a federal mandate to standardize gear selections and avoid those "I thought it was in reverse" drive in accidents.

[ChrisBcritter]

Tim, is the deeper offset on the wider rear wheels going to be all on the inside? Usually I've seen them deeper on the outside.

Also, is a vintage 4-door police/taxi package something Moebius would even consider if they could piggyback it onto this tooling without too much expense?

Thanks for posting the photos - looking forward to the Jo-Han/Lindberg/Moebius roof comparison!

[tim boyd]

Tim, is the deeper offset on the wider rear wheels going to be all on the inside? Usually I've seen them deeper on the outside.

Also, is a vintage 4-door police/taxi package something Moebius would even consider if they could piggyback it onto this tooling without too much expense?

Thanks for posting the photos - looking forward to the Jo-Han/Lindberg/Moebius roof comparison!

Chris...the deeper offset is on the outside, so it will be noticeable when the model assembly is completed.  

For those of you who are not aware about this, deeper outside offsets were the norm for wider tires until the 1980's when suspension handling became a big selling point.  Today, offsets are a carefully managed consideration to make sure wider tires can stay in the wheelwells and provide optimum suspension geometry.  They also allow much bigger brake packages, and in some cases (IIRC), factory usage of the same wheels on both FWD and RWD applications.  But back in the day, deep offsets on rear wheels were an object of car guy car lust, just like bigger engines, custom paint, etc....TIM

[SteveG]

64 was the last year for push buttons. 65's had column shifters.

I stand corrected  .... thanks !

Steve

[oldr-n-drt]

are the bucket seat risers included also??  oldr-n-drt

[RandyEarle]

Chris...the deeper offset is on the outside, so it will be noticeable when the model assembly is completed.  

For those of you who are not aware about this, deeper outside offsets were the norm for wider tires until the 1980's when suspension handling became a big selling point.  Today, offsets are a carefully managed consideration to make sure wider tires can stay in the wheelwells and provide optimum suspension geometry.  They also allow much bigger brake packages, and in some cases (IIRC), factory usage of the same wheels on both FWD and RWD applications.  But back in the day, deep offsets on rear wheels were an object of car guy car lust, just like bigger engines, custom paint, etc....TIM

First being the Chrome Reverse Wheels.

[MrObsessive]

This particular bodystyle of Plymouth was never my cup of tea (I like the hardtop MUCH better), but the more I look at it, the more I like it! I probably get one when it comes out as it is unique being that no one's done this year Plymouth before.

[Luc Janssens]

This particular bodystyle of Plymouth was never my cup of tea (I like the hardtop MUCH better), but the more I look at it, the more I like it! I probably get one when it comes out as it is unique being that no one's done this year Plymouth before.

Those are the best ones, the ones that you'd never expect and can't can't keep your eyes off.

A

[BrianC]

Well I didn't know I wanted one of these 'till this morning!

Seems to happen with a lot of the Moebius releases!

So much for the concept of reducing the stash.......

[Nova-ss]

Thank you Moebius for this version.and thank you Tim for all the info on this and keeping us a breast of all the info on this..great work on this......Chris 

[gbdolfans]

Tim,I would love to see a bench seat included.

I guess an aftermarket one will be made.

[tim boyd]

As promised earlier, I have now updated this presentation with extensive photography and commentary about the Moebius Belvedere compared with the Lindberg '64 Dodge 330, and the JoHan '63 and '64 Fury.  

Please me sure to read the captions as well as look at the pix (easiest way to do this is to use the "Roll" feature).  

The new images/captions start at Slide #19....    Cheers...TIM    

Edited October 25, 2015 by tim boyd

[Reegs]

1964 was the last year for the pushbuttons, which were on the left side of the steering wheel. That was to keep them out of the reach of overly-curious children.

And, when came time to drive the car into the quarry with the dead body in it (make it look like suicide) alls ya had to do was reach in and push 'D' ...

[horsepower]

First being the Chrome Reverse Wheels.

or just reverse wheels, I can remember spending summers with my Aunt when I was thirteen or so, and my oldest cousin who was already married and did a lot of stuff for local hot rodders in the Los Banos, Dos Palos area (they were from Los Banos) and he would pay his brother and me 25¢ a wheel to cold chisel the rivets out of guys wheels, and he would line them back up after flipping the centers and weld them back together by rosette welding the old rivet holes and running a bead along the back of the wheel. He did alright on those deals, he charged $5 a wheel, and welded and repainted the wheels at work, he worked in the body shop for Keljian Chevrolet.

[ChrisBcritter]

Very informative comparison, Tim - thanks! Now to find a real four-door to get all the correct dimensions...

[mredjr]

All I see is another screwed up windshield. I love the Moebius kits but they just can't get the windshield right on the Plymouths.

[RandyEarle]

From what I see here, you could use the '65 for the '63 chassis. I've already used a Lindberg for mine.

[tim boyd]

All I see is another screwed up windshield. I love the Moebius kits but they just can't get the windshield right on the Plymouths.

I thought we had kind of revisited this and determined maybe it wasn't as wrong as some thought at first.  

Here's a picture I took of a 1/1 after this concern was first voiced on the Satellite kit....

More images of a 1/1 '65 Satellite

And here's the closest comparison shots from my session with the Moebius Belverdere (the Belvedere being the one in dark grey...)  ..

 

Surprisingly...the crown of the roof above the windshield on the Moebius car looks to me to be closer to the real car pictured above than even the JoHan '64 Fury (in red directly above).... .

Can you remind me again what your biggest issue is?   Thanks...TIM 

Edited November 1, 2015 by tim boyd

[MrObsessive]

Tim, once again thanks for your review of what looks to be another knockout kit from Moebius! The windshield header I thought was a bit too tall to me also, and I lowered mine just a teeny-tiny scooch to suit my eyes. Not flat as shown in your pics above, but just enough that I can still use the kit windshield with just a very slight sanding off the top.

One thing that would go a long way in making the windshield side profile a bit better in appearance is like you mentioned, making the vent window post a bit more upright in its position. As it stands now, it's a bit too parallel to the A pillar, where it should be just a bit more perpendicular to the windshield post. Again, not a deal breaker and is a very easy fix.

One thing I have to mention and I never seen this detail until you pointed it out, is the elimination of the "motorboat" cowl shape for the '65's. Looking at pics of '63's and '64's, yeah...........that's a prominent rise up in the cowl. Never noticed it until I read your review, and it just goes to show that you learn something new every day!

 

[tim boyd]

Tim, once again thanks for your review of what looks to be another knockout kit from Moebius! The windshield header I thought was a bit too tall to me also, and I lowered mine just a teeny-tiny scooch to suit my eyes. Not flat as shown in your pics above, but just enough that I can still use the kit windshield with just a very slight sanding off the top.

One thing that would go a long way in making the windshield side profile a bit better in appearance is like you mentioned, making the vent window post a bit more upright in its position. As it stands now, it's a bit too parallel to the A pillar, where it should be just a bit more perpendicular to the windshield post. Again, not a deal breaker and is a very easy fix.

One thing I have to mention and I never seen this detail until you pointed it out, is the elimination of the "motorboat" cowl shape for the '65's. Looking at pics of '63's and '64's, yeah...........that's a prominent rise up in the cowl. Never noticed it until I read your review, and it just goes to show that you learn something new every day!

 

Bill...largely goes for me too on the "motorboat" cowl.  As a very young Dodge fan even back then, I celebrated the '63 as a step back from the precipice, and the '64 was even cleaner, but I never realized specifically the contribution of flattening the cowl made to that '64 vs. '63 appearance improvement until a few years.

 From my years in the 1.1 auto industry, lowering a cowl is one of the most expensive things a manufacturer faces in major car freshening...of course, changes were much less expensive back then, but still, for them to make that change for the '64 model year in the midst of what was otherwise a modest freshening otherrwise shows just how serious Chrysler Corp. under Townsend was about moving back  to a much more mainstream design language and appearance.  And, of course, the resulting sales increases year over year ended up more than paying the bill for that change...

TIM 

[mredjr]

Your 1/1 picture proves my point the windshield is not correct on the HT and even worse on the 2 Dr. sedan.

[tim boyd]

Your 1/1 picture proves my point the windshield is not correct on the HT and even worse on the 2 Dr. sedan.

Sorry...can you be more precise in explaining the problems that you see between the model and the 1/1?  Thanks in advance...much appreciated.  TIM  

Edited November 6, 2015 by tim boyd

[tim boyd]

There is an outstanding article on building the '65 Satellite version of this took by Bill Coulter and Steve Goldman, in the new issue (#197) of Model Cars Magazine that just showed up in my mail box today.  

Steve's how-to section is one of the best Mopar box stock buildups I have ever seen in print.  Congrats to Bill and Steve, and the MCM team, for this article.  Highly recommended for anyone considering building either the Satellite hardtop or the Belvedere two door sedan kit shown in this Forum thread.    TIM   

[gtx6970]

Sorry...can you be more precise in explaining the problems that you see between the model and the 1/1?  Thanks in advance...much appreciated.  TIM  

Tim,

In a the side pic in your own review the look of the front leading edge of the roof is wrong,

http://images12.fotki.com/v539/photos/6/998986/13838380/DSC_0335-vi.jpg

you can even see it in this build thread

 

Sorry, but I have been around Mopars my entire adult life  and will go on record the roof of the kit is not right and will hurt the sales of said kit.

Based on what I see so far, I'll buy a speed city resin of the car to build instead .

 

 

Edited November 6, 2015 by gtx6970

[SteveG]

There is an outstanding article on building the '65 Satellite version of this took by Bill Coulter and Steve Goldman, in the new issue (#197) of Model Cars Magazine that just showed up in my mail box today.  

Steve's how-to section is one of the best Mopar box stock buildups I have ever seen in print.  Congrats to Bill and Steve, and the MCM team, for this article.  Highly recommended for anyone considering building either the Satellite hardtop or the Belvedere two door sedan kit shown in this Forum thread.    TIM   

Tim,

I hope you don't mind the mutual praise. I need to give you a bunch of credit.  It was a number of your Mopar build up articles over the years which got me interested in them in the first place.  A lot of my methods are based on your how-to's articles.    By nature I'm really a Pontiac guy but don't tell anybody  

-Steve

Edited November 6, 2015 by SteveG