How to be competitive at contests.

[Roadrunner]

1 minute ago, CabDriver said:

On a related note, I wondered from those who judge shows how much the “someone did that last year” factor is considered.  
 

Say, a nice red 57 Chevy won last year’s show - is it maybe prudent not to bring another red 57 Chevy?  I’d bet there’s plenty of originality and variety at most shows anyway, but I was curious if that was ever a consideration, even if maybe not intentionally, by the judges?

I've been a local and regional aircraft judge for many, many years now, and sometimes we just remember, especially if someone enters the same model two years in a row. The local club also keeps a photographic record of all entries, so these things can be verified, if need be.

[OldNYJim]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

I've been a local and regional aircraft judge for many, many years now, and sometimes we just remember, especially if someone enters the same model two years in a row. The local club also keeps a photographic record of all entries, so these things can be verified, if need be.

I was thinking more of if some OTHER guy built something similar previously and you ended up (internationally or not) building a close facsimile of that model, would that affect how the build was judged.

Not that I’ve been to a show ever anyway (although I’m looking forward to NNL East next month), but I was just curious 

[Roadrunner]

3 minutes ago, CabDriver said:

Great idea!  I’d be very interested to see a bunch of bar-raising contest winners!

So would I, big time. It might be so subjective though, as to get dragged into an opinion war, which is not what I really want to see. I'll give it a whirl and see what happens.

[Roadrunner]

Just now, CabDriver said:

I was thinking more of if some OTHER guy built something similar previously and you ended up (internationally or not) building a close facsimile of that model, would that affect how the build was judged.

Not that I’ve been to a show ever anyway (although I’m looking forward to NNL East next month), but I was just curious 

That can most certainly happen, no question about it. After a while, all Fw 190's begin to look the same, as a for instance, but each subject is judged as a new entry, unless there's a suspicion we've already judged it in a previous year.

[Roadrunner]

One thing I'm completely ignorant of, do judges ever pick up the cars to look at the bottoms?

[peteski]

11 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

One thing I'm completely ignorant of, do judges ever pick up the cars to look at the bottoms?

Depends on the specific contest - there are no general country-wide rules.  At my club's show they will pick up the model unless there is a note stating not to pick it up.  Also many modelers display their models on some sort of stand, with a mirror on the bottom, allowing for viewing under the model without lifting it.  Judges also carry small flashlights to be able to better see in the dark areas (like inside the engine compartment, or the model's interior.

Edited March 12, 2020 by peteski

[moparfarmer]

In a judged show for example, there are 20 Box Stock builds in the class..A judge can litterly pick out the top 8-10 cars that would qualify then just judge them..A good judge can see what is nice,clean and nice paint and a clean build..Same in all classes..Don't say it hasn't been done because I know it does get done..Best judges are the NNL shows with top 10s picked by peers..And only three choices for  the whole contest..Not in separate classes..As done at NNL North in Minnesota..

[Jantrix]

14 hours ago, CabDriver said:

I was thinking more of if some OTHER guy built something similar previously and you ended up (internationally or not) building a close facsimile of that model, would that affect how the build was judged.

Not that I’ve been to a show ever anyway (although I’m looking forward to NNL East next month), but I was just curious 

I wouldn't think that would be an issue. 

Yes, this is an older thread forgive me, but it's been good for conversation before, and since I'd gone looking for it anyway, I figured why not give it a bump.

As for bar raising models. I suggest you check out the coverage from the last GSL. I was there and I was beyond impressed.

http://www.gslchampionship.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/GSL-XXVII.pdf

[Lunajammer]

On 3/11/2020 at 11:36 AM, StevenGuthmiller said:

An unusual subject, can at the very least, grab a lot of initial attention at a show.

This is how I won a specialty award at GSL. I'm no longer interested in trying to join the elite. I don't enjoy the hobby at that level. But creative modeling also has a value and at some level should be (and is) recognized, as long as you still adhere to the basics of clean building and believable techniques.

[Roadrunner]

24 minutes ago, Lunajammer said:

This is how I won a specialty award at GSL. I'm no longer interested in trying to join the elite. I don't enjoy the hobby at that level. But creative modeling also has a value and at some level should be (and is) recognized, as long as you still adhere to the basics of clean building and believable techniques.

What was the subject, if I might ask?

[Richard Bartrop]

22 hours ago, moparfarmer said:

I used to put my 70 GTX in World of Wheels..The promoter at that time said brightly colored cars and must have eye appeal..Dark colors with black interiors don't do it..Good paint is a must and I again mention clean..In models you must have a flawless build even if you are putting it on the table..You can detail the BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH out of it but if it doesn't get the eye(nice paint or something different) people won't look at it..I build box stock and I've been lucky to have made a magazine a few times..Its got to be eye catching to be seen..Cleanliness is the main thing..If box stock,leave the hood closed..When you take pictures of cars at shows(real and models) you like to see WHOLE cars, not one with hood up..but if you've detailed under hood and hood is displayed nicely it works..If you show car with hood on make sure it matches the body..Little things like that..Steering wheels straight and wheels all touching ground..Cleanliness again is the major thing to make sure..

I used to put stuff in the World of Wheels show here in Calgary when they still had a model show.  The one time I walked away with the big trophy, it was for doing pretty much what they were saying at the beginning.  The model we pretty much out of the box, but the assembly was clean, and it had a decent coat of candy red.

 

[Lunajammer]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

What was the subject, if I might ask?

It was a private club award, the Bob Barnett Memorial Award for custom, presented by the Metroplex Car Modelers Assoc. of Texas. Thanks to Len Woodruff. The award was less about bristling detailing to the Nth degree than it was about custom styling choices and execution.

[Roadrunner]

10 minutes ago, Lunajammer said:

It was a private club award, the Bob Barnett Memorial Award for custom, presented by the Metroplex Car Modelers Assoc. of Texas. Thanks to Len Woodruff. The award was less about bristling detailing to the Nth degree than it was about custom styling choices and execution.

What I meant was, what was the modeled subject of your award?

[Lunajammer]

28 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

What I meant was, what was the modeled subject of your award?

Other than plug wires and BMF, there was no technical detail, just body work and paint.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Lunajammer

[Roadrunner]

Very nice. Thanks, Mike.

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 hours ago, Lunajammer said:

Other than plug wires and BMF, there was no technical detail, just body work and paint.

That's pretty neat!

And well done I might add!

 

 

 

Steve

[BigTallDad]

22 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

One thing I'm completely ignorant of, do judges ever pick up the cars to look at the bottoms?

As has been mentioned before, it depends on the contest. If, however, the contest is being judged under IPMS guidelines, models may (and should) be picked up.

From the IPMS website: "Models are three-dimensional, scale representations of three-dimensional, full-size articles. For that reason, models will be judged in three dimensions. Because the bottom of the model is just as important as the top, judges will handle models to the degree required to judge the entire model consistently."

[StevenGuthmiller]

19 minutes ago, BigTallDad said:

As has been mentioned before, it depends on the contest. If, however, the contest is being judged under IPMS guidelines, models may (and should) be picked up.

From the IPMS website: "Models are three-dimensional, scale representations of three-dimensional, full-size articles. For that reason, models will be judged in three dimensions. Because the bottom of the model is just as important as the top, judges will handle models to the degree required to judge the entire model consistently."

Just what I need.

Some goof picking up the model I sweated over for 6 months and dropping the hood on the floor, chipping a flawless paint job!!

 

 

 

Steve

[peteski]

10 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Just what I need.

Some goof picking up the model I sweated over for 6 months and dropping the hood on the floor, chipping a flawless paint job!!

Steve

Sorry to hear that this happened. Unfortunately, you have to make sure nothing falls off the model when it is picked up (or place a note beside it with instructions of what to remove from the model first, or not to pick it up at all).  Judges can't read minds.  I'm assuming that the contest rules clearly stated that the model will be picked up during judging.

 

I've been a judge at contests and I'm also the club's contest photographer. When I'm about to handle the model to be photograph I always ask the builder how to pick it up and whether it is safe to manipulate it.  On fragile models I often instruct them to handle the model themselves and pose it for me.

Edited March 13, 2020 by peteski

[moparfarmer]

9 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said:

I used to put stuff in the World of Wheels show here in Calgary when they still had a model show.  The one time I walked away with the big trophy, it was for doing pretty much what they were saying at the beginning.  The model we pretty much out of the box, but the assembly was clean, and it had a decent coat of candy red.

 

In that comment it was my real car..Late Current Restored class...

[Roadrunner]

I'm strongly considering entering a 1:24 pickup in our two local events this year, so I guess just to be safe I'll go ahead and remove all 80 ejector pin marks.

[StevenGuthmiller]

6 hours ago, peteski said:

Sorry to hear that this happened. Unfortunately, you have to make sure nothing falls off the model when it is picked up (or place a note beside it with instructions of what to remove from the model first, or not to pick it up at all).  Judges can't read minds.  I'm assuming that the contest rules clearly stated that the model will be picked up during judging.

 

I've been a judge at contests and I'm also the club's contest photographer. When I'm about to handle the model to be photograph I always ask the builder how to pick it up and whether it is safe to manipulate it.  On fragile models I often instruct them to handle the model themselves and pose it for me.

It didn't actually happen to me Peter.

It was just a joke.

 

I kind of look at it from the perspective of a Harley rider.

Don't you dare touch my bike!!

 

Actually, I've never been entered in a show where the model needed to be picked up.

 

 

 

Steve

Edited March 13, 2020 by StevenGuthmiller

[Lunajammer]

13 hours ago, peteski said:

(or place a note beside it with instructions.... not to pick it up at all).  Judges can't read minds.

Nor notes sometimes.

My close friend entered a superbly detailed 1/48 B-17 at Minneapolis' big IPMS show. It even had self starting motorized props. Give it a spin, they start. Grab the hub to slow to a stop or the blades break off. Mid day we found a broken prop. The models are not to be touched, but that's on us for not posting a note, so we did. Came back later another prop was broken. Very aggravating. We instructed the judges to police the model and showed them how to handle the props and to ask us to assist if they wish during judging. The doors closed for judging and when we returned there was another broken prop.

He was so furious he removed it from display, boxed it and it never saw the light of day again.

[peteski]

3 hours ago, Lunajammer said:

Nor notes sometimes.

My close friend entered a superbly detailed 1/48 B-17 at Minneapolis' big IPMS show. It even had self starting motorized props. Give it a spin, they start. Grab the hub to slow to a stop or the blades break off. Mid day we found a broken prop. The models are not to be touched, but that's on us for not posting a note, so we did. Came back later another prop was broken. Very aggravating. We instructed the judges to police the model and showed them how to handle the props and to ask us to assist if they wish during judging. The doors closed for judging and when we returned there was another broken prop.

He was so furious he removed it from display, boxed it and it never saw the light of day again.

I judge a mostly model car contest (non-IPMS) so we don't get many military models. But we never had any sort of mishaps like that.  I don't know what to say in your instance. Seems very irresponsible on the part of judges. I would either never enter that contest again (most likely), or at least not bring any delicate models with working features on them.

[Tom Geiger]

It happens!  At GSL many years ago a judge picked up Joe Cavorley’s truck and the chassis disconnected from the body and tumbled to the floor!

Joe was a big guy and could have a temper. The unnamed judge sweat it all night that in the morning he had to tell Joe!

Fortunately when told Joe just said, “I guess I’ll have to build another one.”