So why were "Suicide" doors used by the auto manufactures?

[Greg Myers]

I think I have an answer, but I can't find anything to back it up. 

Edited February 23, 2016 by Greg Myers

[SfanGoch]

Easier for fat guys to enter and exit cars back then. They were a tight fit.

[Lownslow]

Someone told me it had something to do with the way house doors were opened but i wasnt buying that.

[Harry P.]

They were a holdover from the horse-drawn carriage era. The doors were hinged that way on carriages because it was easier for women with their full, poofy skirts to enter/exit the carriage than if the doors were hinged at the front. So as carriages evolved into horseless carriages, the "suicide" doors were carried over, just because that's the way doors on carriages had always been done.

[SfanGoch]

They were a holdover from the horse-drawn carriage era.

The increase of amputation-inducing accidents, caused by drivers not paying attention to traffic before opening the door and exiting their vehicles, was responsible for the popularity of the nickname "Stumpy" back in those ring-a-ding crazy days of yesteryear.

[unclescott58]

Try getting in or out of a car with suicide doors and you'll know right away. The "suicide" style of door is out of your way, especially for swinging in or out your legs and feet. It's really that simple. With good door latches, and closed properly they're really not a problem. But not latched properly. Oh, boy!

[Dragline]

They no longer exist for good reason. I know from experience that a 1/2 closed door if hinged at the rear can fly open suddenly. I'll just leave it there.

[Greg Myers]

No, not there yet. 

[SfanGoch]

Suicide doors facilitated dumping a stiff out of a moving car after taking him for a ride. "Pittsburgh Phil" Strauss told me that.

[Steven Zimmerman]

My take, doors that 'fell away' at the top were much harder to hinge at the front. Usually the rear edge of the door was vertical, or almost, making the door more easily hinged at the rear.   Case in point - 32 Ford, taking what I said into consideration, notice the difference in where the door is hinged, in relation to the shape of the door..........?

 

[unclescott58]

No, not there yet. 

???? So what your answer then? What are you looking for?

Edited February 24, 2016 by unclescott58

[DrKerry]

Harry has it,,, due to the women and their long dresses made it easier for them to get in and out....

[Luc Janssens]

They no longer exist for good reason. I know from experience that a 1/2 closed door if hinged at the rear can fly open suddenly. I'll just leave it there.

They still do exist, in a Rolls Royce (Roller for the Britons here) and also in the current Opel Meriva

http://www.autoweek.nl/images/800/6/a5c289ea5b09c42e50ec0a79805799f6.jpg

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2016 by Luc Janssens

[unclescott58]

They no longer exist for good reason. I know from experience that a 1/2 closed door if hinged at the rear can fly open suddenly. I'll just leave it there.

With modern door latches they are not any more of a problem than any other doors. Note Luc's comment above.

As far as wearing dresses. I don't wear dresses yet I too find it easier getting in and out of a car with suicide doors rather than doors hinged at the front. Also there were horse drawn carriages with front hinged doors.

[Art Anderson]

My take, doors that 'fell away' at the top were much harder to hinge at the front. Usually the rear edge of the door was vertical, or almost, making the door more easily hinged at the rear.   Case in point - 32 Ford, taking what I said into consideration, notice the difference in where the door is hinged, in relation to the shape of the door..........?

 

In the case of those early 1930's cars, such as the '32 Ford 3-window coupe, the "swept-back" angled A-pillar made hinging the door from the front very impractical, as to have the door open outward in a straight, level fashion necessarily meant a lower hinge that would have SERIOUSLY intruded into the interior, at the worst possible spot--right next to the driver's left foot. "Suicide" rear doors on a 4dr sedan stemmed in large part from the era of wooden-framed automobile body shells (virtually all automobile bodies, from the beginning into the early-mid 1930's were of "composite" construction, being essentially a wooden structure, covered on their exterior by pressed/stamped sheet metal (either steel or aluminum), the science of both fatigue-resistant sheet metal and welding techniques which had yet to arrive in the industry.  The coming of all steel, welded body structures by 1933-35 for mass-production cars eliminated almost all of the potential weakness of a B-pillar in reliably holding the weight of an opened door hinged to it.

Hinging rear doors from the necessarily slender, wood-core "B pillar" (A-pillar being at the windshield, B-pillar in the the middle of the body side, and the C-pillar being at the rear--either at or near the back of the rear seat) presented problems with weakness in that primarily roof supporting pillar in closed cars, and a relatively unsupported short pillar on open bodies (such as a phaeton or touring car (very critical as car bodies got larger, and doors--particularly on closed bodies--grew heavier.  Additionally, most production cars, save for the very largest, most luxurious makes) still seated their rear passengers literally above the rear axle, meaning that the rear wheels/fenders had to intrude into the door openings for access to the rear seat.  Making this rear door "suicide-style" made for easier entry and egress for back seat passengers (one of last uses of "suicide" rear doors was on the 1961-66 Lincoln Continental!).

With the almost universal adoption of "full envelope" car bodies by 1949, which also saw sedan bodies on longer chassis which moved the rear axle farther back and BEHIND the rear seat allowed for larger rear doors, eliminating any need for hinging those rear doors to the C-pillar.  This eliminated one of the primary markets for 2-door sedans which were once preferred by families with small childred--no rear doors which a child could accidentally open while the car was moving--having the air grab that door and pulling a child outside of the moving car.

Art

Art

[Greg Myers]

Art wins the prize.  Next up, Why did so any early cars have soft roof inserts ? 

[Greg Myers]

???? So what your answer then? What are you looking for?

I'm not looking for anything really, just a good topic of discussion to further enlighten the members of the board. Guess I miss teaching. 

[Impalow]

Art wins the prize.  Next up, Why did so any early cars have soft roof inserts ? 

Guessing it had something to do with the stamped panel size, or keeping a larger panel stable without stamped stiffening ribs of some sort....  purely a guess.

[unclescott58]

I'm sorry, but I have disagree with several of Art's premises above about wood framing in cars being the reason for suicide doors. There were many cars that hung their doors from the "B" pillars in the days of wood framing. I'm not sure there is a really good reason why some cars used suicide doors. And others did not. I think it really came down to preference of the builder and/or designer.

The fabric roof insert is a simple one. For years, unit GM introduced the all steel "Turret-Top" in mid-30's, most automobile companies and body builders didn't have presses large enough to stamp out a one piece roof. When GM's Turret-Top proved popular, a lot of smaller makes who couldn't afford the large presses, had to replace the fabric area with a sheet of metal welded in its place. Requiring extra leading of seams and sanding. And costing more than GM's one piece all steel roof.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Guessing it had something to do with the stamped panel size, or keeping a larger panel stable without stamped stiffening ribs of some sort....  purely a guess.

Yup, pretty much.

Again, it had to do with a slow phasing-out of traditional construction methods, and riding the development-curve of press-tool technology for producing deeply-contoured, large steel panels.

Interestingly, some European cars were considerably more advanced than their US counterparts in pressed-and-welded steel structures.

This 1934 Citroen design is a full unibody, with no separate frame, and with no cloth roof insert.

    

Edited February 24, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry Joy]

The increase of amputation-inducing accidents, caused by drivers not paying attention to traffic before opening the door and exiting their vehicles, was responsible for the popularity of the nickname "Stumpy" back in those ring-a-ding crazy days of yesteryear.

In all my years wondering about suicide doors, this problem never occurred to me, but once you think about it, it's really obvious!

[unclescott58]

The increase of amputation-inducing accidents, caused by drivers not paying attention to traffic before opening the door and exiting their vehicles, was responsible for the popularity of the nickname "Stumpy" back in those ring-a-ding crazy days of yesteryear.

What is your proof on your above statement? Is this a fact? Or something done tongue in cheek. Because I've never hear of this problem before. Nor anybody being called "Stumpy" on a regular basis in the past. Plus, I'm sure many more people lost limbs in both World Wars, than by doors being hit by cars in traffic. If this was a real problem, I would have though laws may have outlawed them. Or insurance companies would not agree to insure cars with suicide doors. Plus in the "old" days, 1950s and before, in parallel parking situations most people would side over, and exit their vehicles curb side. Proof of that? Look at how many cars and trucks in the past came with only exterior door locks on the passenger side doors as standard equipment.

The more I think of your above statement, the less logical it seems. I could be wrong on this. But, what are your sources backing up your statement as fact?

[Dragline]

I stand corrected.

[Harry P.]

In the case of those early 1930's cars, such as the '32 Ford 3-window coupe, the "swept-back" angled A-pillar made hinging the door from the front very impractical...

1935 Fords had an even more swept back A pillar, and they had front-hinged doors.

The angle of the A pillar has nothing to do with it. The hinges aren't even attached there. It has to do with the angle of the leading edge of the door. In order for the door to swing open level using barrel hinges (the type that were used in the '20s and '30s), the upper and lower hinge has to be aligned and centered vertically one above the other. As you can see, the angled leading edge of the door on the "32 would make it impractical to hinge from the front, so they were hinged from the rear, where the hinges could be vertically aligned on the straight vertical line of the door opening. On the '35, however, they went with a vertical leading edge on the door, so putting the hinges in front was possible, as the upper and lower hinges could align vertically.

It's simply a matter of geometry; nothing to do with body construction or wood framing vs. stamped steel or anything like that.

[SfanGoch]

What is your proof on your above statement? Is this a fact? Or something done tongue in cheek. Because I've never hear of this problem before. Nor anybody being called "Stumpy" on a regular basis in the past. Plus, I'm sure many more people lost limbs in both World Wars, than by doors being hit by cars in traffic. If this was a real problem, I would have though laws may have outlawed them. Or insurance companies would not agree to insure cars with suicide doors. Plus in the "old" days, 1950s and before, in parallel parking situations most people would side over, and exit their vehicles curb side. Proof of that? Look at how many cars and trucks in the past came with only exterior door locks on the passenger side doors as standard equipment.

The more I think of your above statement, the less logical it seems. I could be wrong on this. But, what are your sources backing up your statement as fact?

Had you going there, huh? Why let facts get in the way of a good story? You say it's not logical; yet, you think there might be some truth in it.