Modelhaus going, going Gone !!!!!!

[Ace-Garageguy]

You might not like it, but yeah, that's the way the world works.

Yup, and I really don't like the idea that the Modelhaus folks are probably doing a significant amount of their final work so some no-talent buy-low-sell-high something-for-nothings can make a fat profit on their effort.

Call it whatever you want.

[mike 51]

I believe it's generally referred to as "Capitalism"....it's been around for sometime now.

Modelhaus was making  a decent profit on things others designed/created....far more cheaply than it cost the OEMs. 

Yet that's OK...

I guess it's just a matter of perception?

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Modelhaus was making  a decent profit on things others designed/created....far more cheaply than it cost the OEMs. 

Yet that's OK...

I guess it's just a matter of perception?

Well, it's different, see? A LOT different. They weren't just MARKING UP somebody else's product. THEY HAD TO MAKE MOLDS AND MAKE THE PRODUCTS. The molds have a finite life too, have to be replaced regularly to keep the quality up.

Yes, much of their work was BASED on production parts from a variety of sources, but it wasn't just re-sold and marked up existing stock by people incapable of doing the work. Far from it.

But I guess it's another of those not-so-subtle distinctions that seem to be too difficult for many to grasp.

EDIT: I'd also wager Modelhaus was paying at least nominal royalties to produce facsimiles of parts and designs that obviously originated elsewhere, but that the original manufacturers had no interest in continuing. We live in such a greedy, grasping, petty and litigious world that this MUST be the case.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Snake45]

Yup, and I really don't like the idea that the Modelhaus folks are probably doing a significant amount of their final work so some no-talent buy-low-sell-high something-for-nothings can make a fat profit on their effort.

Call it whatever you want.

So what would be your solution to this "problem"?

[Ace-Garageguy]

So what would be your solution to this "problem"?

A fundamental change in human nature that eliminated the desire to make a buck for doing nothing while riding on someone else's back.  

[jeffb]

well, it really is the customer who sets market value..if someones willing to pay stupid.......

[gtx6970]

99.999999% of any / everything produced is for resale - makes no difference who made it or who is selling it.

Modelhaus is / was no different. They created ,,,or commissioned others to create said   items ...... to resell.

Someone buying  Modelhaus items ,,be it singularly or multiple items  is  Absolutly NO different than ........... ( fill in the blank with your preferred retailer)  buying one or a thousand pieces of inventory to resell

If someone in this world desires to buy said product from Modelhaus strictly to resell at a later date. More power to them . I for one am BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH glad we live in a world we can do ' exactly  that ' .

[Snake45]

A fundamental change in human nature that eliminated the desire to make a buck for doing nothing while riding on someone else's back.  

Well, good luck with that.

And BTW, the theoretical middleman/speculator isn't exactly "doing nothing" in this case, but I'm sure everyone here already knows that.

[Ace-Garageguy]

99.999999% of any / everything produced is for resale - makes no difference who made it or who is selling it.

Modelhaus is / was no different. They created ,,,or commissioned others to create said   items ...... to resell.

Someone buying  Modelhaus items ,,be it singularly or multiple items  is  Absolutly NO different than ........... ( fill in the blank with your preferred retailer)  buying one or a thousand pieces of inventory to resell

If someone in this world desires to buy said product from Modelhaus strictly to resell at a later date. More power to them . I for one am BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH glad we live in a world we can do ' exactly  that ' .

And I, for one, have no use for middlemen. I'll try to cut one out of every deal I can, every time.

I've spent the majority of my life MAKING things and getting no credit and way less than half the money. I'm sick of a system that rewards the resellers and screws the producers, the originators, the inventors, the ones who make it possible for everyone to live.

This is the principle involved:

If you can MAKE something, you deserve as much as you can get.

If you can't make anything, you don't have any right to a free ride on MY effort and skill.

Buying up a bunch of Modelhaus product specifically to resell is wanting to profit for doing nothing but posting the parts on ebay. It's lazy, greedy, and sleezy.

Anybody who actually ever made anything original will get it. Free-riders won't.

And another thing: reselling someone's product BY AGREEMENT is one thing. Loading up a company with orders (specifically to resell) whose principals are trying to end production following the death of their son is something else.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

Buying up a bunch of Modelhaus product specifically to resell is wanting to profit for doing nothing but posting the parts on ebay. It's lazy, greedy, and sleezy.

It's also human nature, and it's not going to change anytime soon. So get used to it. Or start your own new civilization on another planet.

[Howard Cohen]

Oh, so buying and reselling is wrong...too bad because every time you go to a hobby shop or show and buy a kit from a vendor or from a collection, that is exactly what you are doing  

[Ace-Garageguy]

It's also human nature, and it's not going to change anytime soon. So get used to it. Or start your own new civilization on another planet.

Ethics and the golden rule just have no place in the world today, do they?

And if that's really the way you feel, quit complaining about your corrupt Crook County politicos who exist to do nothing but line their own pockets. They're just following "human nature". It's kinda like "I was just following orders".

Oh, so buying and reselling is wrong...too bad because every time you go to a hobby shop or show and buy a kit from a vendor or from a collection, that is exactly what you are doing  

So many people ALWAYS miss the point. Reselling BY AGREEMENT is NOT the issue here.

Another not-too-subtle difference that IS apparently too subtle for most. 

Edited July 8, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

Ethics and the golden rule just have no place in the world today, do they?

And if that's really the way you feel, quit complaining about your corrupt Crook County politicos who exist to do nothing but line their own pockets. They're just following "human nature". It's kinda like "I was just following orders".

There is a big difference between dishonest politicians using their clout and influence to dishonestly line their own pockets at the expense of the governed, and someone who legitimately bought a product and sells it to a willing buyer at a profit. Two completely different things.

Crooked politicians influence my life without my consent. They raise my taxes, or pass legislation that directly affects me, without my permission or approval. I have no choice.

Modelhaus resellers are selling to willing buyers who have a choice whether to buy or not.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Crooked politicians influence my life without my consent. ...

Modelhaus resellers are selling to willing buyers who have a choice whether to buy or not.

Modelhaus resellers (in this instance, assuming a block of product was purchased specifically to resell) are acting without the consent of Modelhaus.

THAT'S the point.

I doubt Modelhaus would be happy about knowing they were producing a large number of orders so someone ELSE could profit on them.

Frankly, they would be fools to do it. Much better for them to withhold product and sell it at inflated prices themselves after production stops.

If people are reselling with the CONSENT of Modelhaus, fine. I rather doubt it though. Modelhaus never sold through middlemen, to the best of my knowledge.

If people are reselling large orders of product without Modelhaus' consent, it's taking unfair advantage of a situation.

But feel free to call it "good business". I reserve my right to call it something else entirely.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[plastic-mechanic]

And I, for one, have no use for middlemen. I'll try to cut one out of every deal I can, every time.

I've spent the majority of my life MAKING things and getting no credit and way less than half the money. I'm sick of a system that rewards the resellers and screws the producers, the originators, the inventors, the ones who make it possible for everyone to live.

This is the principle involved:

If you can MAKE something, you deserve as much as you can get.

If you can't make anything, you don't have any right to a free ride on MY effort and skill.

Buying up a bunch of Modelhaus product specifically to resell is wanting to profit for doing nothing but posting the parts on ebay. It's lazy, greedy, and sleezy.

Anybody who actually ever made anything original will get it. Free-riders won't.

And another thing: reselling someone's product BY AGREEMENT is one thing. Loading up a company with orders (specifically to resell) whose principals are trying to end production following the death of their son is something else.

the good thing is that you're not bitter.

Welcome to engwertown - population 1

[MrObsessive]

Hey Bill! Clear some space in yer inbox!  

Ok, I just got rid of everything. There were a couple messages I'd like to have kept, but when cleaning out one's inbox, it seems to be an all or nothing approach.

It's not as user friendly as before in the older format IMO.

[crowe-t]

Ok, I just got rid of everything. There were a couple messages I'd like to have kept, but when cleaning out one's inbox, it seems to be an all or nothing approach.

It's not as user friendly as before in the older format IMO.

Bill, you just choose each individual message(conversation) you want to delete.  When it's open on the right side of the page there is a gray box with the word 'message' next to the open message(conversation) title.  Click on the down arrow and choose 'Leave conversation'.  

This is how I've been deteting individual messages in my inbox.

I hope all this makes sense.

Mike.

[Dave Van]

In the model train hobby people buy on speculation all the time.  It's not looked down on.....Any one is allowed to buy when an item is produced....the fact you want one 4 years later means you may have to pay a price.....

[mikemodeler]

It is unfortunate that Don and Carol are probably working harder now than they ever have when they really should be slowing down and getting ready to retire. Yeah, I am sure the money is great and all, but the long hours and endless stack of orders probably is so overwhelming that I wouldn't blame them if they said they just couldn't fill the orders, including mine.

We all are hoping someone takes over their operation, and while that would be nice, if they have such a backlog of orders that it could take them 18 months to ship, then I think there will be plenty of Modelhaus product available for awhile. As has been speculated, some are probably "loading up" on items only to re-sell them later at a higher price and while they are certainly free to do that, there is no promise that they will be successful.

This situation reminded me of a recent model show I was at. Ollie's had just put a bunch of models on sale for $7.99 and there was one vendor there who obviously had picked up a bunch of models and tried to double his money on them. He was selling some old, open NASCAR kits and had a dozen or so new models from Ollie's. I don't think he was too successful as most of the attendees saw through his plan and avoided him. 

[ScaleCentral]

So eBay and the New York Stock Exchange is the devil?

[Ace-Garageguy]

So eBay and the New York Stock Exchange is the devil?

Boy, there's really some convoluted 'logic' that somehow got that question from the issue under discussion here.  

[Snake45]

Boy, there's really some convoluted 'logic' that somehow got that question from the issue under discussion here.  

Not at all. This whole subtopic of this thread is about the Free Market. Ebay, NYSE, Modelhaus, Walmart, or your local Mom n Pop store--they all operate according to the same laws of economics.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Not at all. This whole subtopic of this thread is about the Free Market. Ebay, NYSE, Modelhaus, Walmart, or your local Mom n Pop store--they all operate according to the same laws of economics.

Point missed again. Geez.

Let's review.

1) Modelhaus is going out of business, probably at least in part due to the death of the son.

2) As a courtesy and service to the modeling community (rather than just shutting down and leaving everybody twisting in the wind, which would have been entirely understandable) Modelhaus announced their projected closing date so modelers could get what they may have missed in the past.

3) Possibly, SOME large order placers aren't buying for their own use, but to resell at inflated prices after production ceases.

4) In MY view of things, folks doing that are taking unfair advantage of the folks at Modelhaus.

5) WHY would Modelhaus be content to sell product at regular price to hoarders / resellers when Modelhaus could get the inflated prices themselves if they simply shut down and auctioned off stock as they saw fit, for the highest possible prices?

6) They wouldn't, unless they were idiots, which they aren't. (But if they were operating solely on business principles, human-greedy-nature or laws of economics, that's EXACTLY what they'd do).

7) Again, I maintain intentional big-order resellers are unfairly taking advantage of Modelhaus' kindness, consideration and courtesy in announcing a closing date.

If you can't grasp what's at issue here...whoever you are...I sincerely hope you'll be treated exactly the same way you seem to think is OK in all your future business and interpersonal dealings.

It may be "good business", "human nature", the "laws of economics" or whatever you want to call it.

But buying large orders specifically for the purpose of reselling at inflated prices is simply taking unfair advantage of the kindness, courtesy and responsible behavior Modelhaus has extended to the modeling community.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Snake45]

Point missed again. Geez.

Let's review.

1) Modelhaus is going out of business, probably at least in part due to the death of the son.

2) As a courtesy and service to the modeling community (rather than just shutting down and leaving everybody twisting in the wind, which would have been entirely understandable) Modelhaus announced their projected closing date so modelers could get what they may have missed in the past.

3) Possibly, SOME large order placers aren't buying for their own use, but to resell at inflated prices after production ceases.

4) In MY view of things, folks doing that are taking unfair advantage of the folks at Modelhaus.

5) WHY would Modelhaus be content to sell product at regular price to hoarders / resellers when Modelhaus could get the inflated prices themselves if they simply shut down and auctioned off stock as they saw fit, for the highest possible prices?

6) They wouldn't, unless they were idiots, which they aren't.

7) Again, I maintain intentional big-order resellers are unfairly taking advantage of Modelhaus' courtesy in announcing a closing date.

If you can't grasp what's at issue here...whoever you are...I sincerely hope you'll be treated exactly the same way you seem to think is OK in all your business and interpersonal dealings.

It may be "good business", "human nature", the "laws of economics" or whatever you want to call it.

It's also taking unfair advantage of the kindness, courtesy and responsible behavior Modelhaus has extended to the modeling community.

 

 

You are ASSUMING that POSSIBLY some people are engaging in or might engage in a free market activity that you don't approve of in this particular sphere, for some reason, though you don't seem to have any proof that anyone is actually doing this. Got it.

I asked what was your proposed solution to this alleged "problem" and IIRC you said change human nature. Okay.

Would you like to go through Modelhaus's outstanding orders, decide which ones are for greedy "speculators," and pull those orders? Gee, I hope you don't pull mine, even though it's pretty large with several multiples. I intend to use everything on my lists. Whether I will live long enough to actually do so is another matter. But, frankly, if/when I get the stuff, having ordered through MH's normal channel and having paid full retail (plus shipping and CC charges) and having waited my turn in line, if I want to use it on models, or let it sit in the boxes, or give/trade it with other modelers, or take the whole lot out in my back yard and set fire to it, I'm having a hard time seeing where it's anyone else's concern.

[Ace-Garageguy]