MrBuick Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 So, a little back story. There's a company called Recover Tactical that makes firearm grips for Beretta and 1911 style pistols. They have a new product coming out, which many have pre-ordered. When they originally started taking pre-orders, they allowed customers to purchase the grip in Black, Grey, Tan or OD Green. Now that the product is finally shipping, they've inadvertently admitted they only made the Grey one and aren't making the other colors...I say inadvertently because they didn't announce it, someone happened to ask the right question on their Facebook page and it just sort of came out. I kind of take issue with that and stated so on their page, and they refuse to admit they did anything wrong. Basically, they didn't notify their customers who'd already paid that there was a change, even though they had the perfect opportunity to in one of the multiple emails they sent out when the product kept getting delayed, and now they're claiming that they don't think they did anything wrong. I guess I just expected better customer service from a small company.Below is the Facebook transcription. Company's original post - the CC3P production is complete! Getting them packed and shipping them off to our warehouse later this week!Not too late to order yours nowCustomer - Does it mean that the OD Green CC3P I put an order in for will be shipping soon?Company - Bad news Louis, we only produced the one color above and we are shipping it with 2 sets of panels insteadMe - Wait...so you allowed people to order the grip in a variety of different colors, then only produced one, never let anybody know about it, and just plan on shipping people the wrong color without saying anything? I can understand the delays in shipping since this was a pre-order and things happen during the manufacturing process, but selling someone product A and then shipping them product B without the intention of even notifying them is pretty shoddy customer service. In the email you sent out notifying pre-order purchasers of the delay, you went as far to say "we apologize, but we always fulfill our commitments." Well, apparently not...maybe your marketing department should spend less time posting pictures on Facebook and more time helping the company keep their paying customers informed of changes made to their orders after they've paid...I'm sure there are a lot of people who will be shocked and disappointed to discover the Green or Tan grip they ordered shows up and is Phantom Grey.Company - This was a pre-order and we did our best to produce what we intended but unfortunately it did not work out at this time, those are some of the risks with pre-orders. We did offer a free set of grip panels to make up for this which we feel is fair and if you do not you are welcome to request a refund. Anyone who is disappointed is 100% entitled to a refund if they so choose, please email service@recovertactical.com if you would like a refund and we will process ASAP. Another thing to note, by you implying we are doing something nefarious by offering a different product and then also claim our customer service shoddy is not entirely accurate. Yes we changed the color and had some unforeseen delays, but we are offering the exact same product as promised, and as mentioned above we are giving away a free set of grip panels with each order. Once again, please email service@recovertactical.com with your order number so we can give you your refund, I guess that is the only way to make you satisfied.Me - I'm not unsatisfied with the color of the grip, as I plan to Duracoat mine the same color as the firearm anyway, so the color doesn't matter to me, although I'm sure there are others who it will matter to. My personal beef stands on principal...the way you handled the situation was, simply put, wrong. As I already said, I understand things happen, and you did notify people of delays, so the fact that you chose to not mention at the same or later time that the product is no longer being made in the same colors as advertised (that some people had already paid for) was wrong. Free grip panels or not, that doesn't make up for it. In the end, I'm sure you're shipping a quality product, as all your other products have been, and different colors aside, I'm sure the majority of your customers will be satisfied, even if some are initially disappointed with the unexpected change. I just hope you can take this as constructive criticism instead of just a rant on Facebook and apply it in the future if a similar situation should arise again. It's really quite simple and should be obvious...if you've got customers who have paid for something, and the thing they paid for might end up being different, even if only slightly, than what they originally ordered, they should be notified.Company - Sorry but I disagree, so I guess we can agree to disagree
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 Their definition of "the exact same product as promised" doesn't actually mean "the exact same product as promised". The word "exact" has an exact meaning, and this is blatantly not "exact".I think it's chickenexhaust on their part to fail to admit they should have notified the "pre-orders" who took "risks" with them that the "exact same product" being shipped is the "exact same product EXCEPT COLOR"...so it's not REALLY the EXACT same product now, is it?Nothing wrong with your thinking here. Guess I won't be buying a set for my 92FS.
ReCover Tactical Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 (edited) I don't think your thinking is off, I may disagree with it but that is why we offered you or anyone else who is not a satisfied with any of our products a full refund. I understand your frustration and I appreciate you copying the exchange and not altering it in any way (as I have seen others do in the past to bolster their claims!), but when manufacturing beta products things are subject to change without notice, and for those who are not ok with that we once again are more than happy to provide a full refund. Edited June 5, 2016 by ReCover Tactical word
MrBuick Posted June 5, 2016 Author Posted June 5, 2016 I don't think your thinking is off, I may disagree with it but that is why we offered you or anyone else who is not a satisfied with any of our products a full refund. I understand your frustration and I appreciate you copying the exchange and not altering it in any way (as I have seen others do in the past to bolster their claims!), but when manufacturing beta products things are subject to change without notice, and for those who are not ok with that we once again are more than happy to provide a full refund.Well, I guess I appreciate that you at least care enough to keyword search the internet and actually respond to complaints, but at the same time that makes me even more baffled that you don't recognize the misstep the company took. It's not about whether you're (Recover, I realize you in particular may not be the decision maker) willing to offer a refund, about whether you ship a free set of grip panels, or any other things that you're willing to do to take care of an upset customer. The point is, this situation should have been completely avoided in the first place by simply putting another sentence in the email that was sent out notifying people of the delay; "In addition to the delay in shipping, we will now only be offering the grip in ___ color," or something along those lines. I've little doubt that there are people patently awaiting their pre-order with absolutely no idea that the product they're receiving is not what they ordered. Maybe think of it this way...you go to buy a new car, but the dealership doesn't have what you want, so you custom order from the factory. You wait for your car, and one day you get a call from the dealership that it's ready to be picked up. You go to pick it up, and everything is exactly as you ordered it, EXCEPT for it's black, and you ordered, let's just say dark blue. When you say something, they just say "oh, yeah, we don't make it in dark blue anymore, but don't worry, if you don't like it we won't make you pay for it." Can you honestly tell me that you wouldn't be upset that they didn't notify you that the car you'd been waiting on wasn't going to be exactly how you ordered it? No...along with everyone else in the world, the first thing you'd ask is "why didn't you notify me that it was no longer offered in the color I ordered it in?" While the scenarios and price points in the example may be vastly different to the situation at hand, the principal is identical...you simply cannot sell your customers one thing, change it without notifying them, then claim "yep, that can happen when you pre-order, buyer beware," and still claim that that's good customer service.
ReCover Tactical Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 I think the scale (get it? scale! modeling!) of the example that you bring is not exactly the same but I will go along with it. So you pre-order the car and they say they can't fulfill the color so instead they offer you an extra free set of mag rims which are retail 1/4th the price of the whole car or a full refund. I think that's fair and that is exactly what we are offering here.
Xingu Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 I think the scale (get it? scale! modeling!) of the example that you bring is not exactly the same but I will go along with it. So you pre-order the car and they say they can't fulfill the color so instead they offer you an extra free set of mag rims which are retail 1/4th the price of the whole car or a full refund. I think that's fair and that is exactly what we are offering here.The problem with that is it seems like your customers don't know they aren't getting the correct color until it arrives at their door. Some will overlook the issue and accept the free gifts. I feel you are going to be paying for a fair amount of free return shipping though. You are going to offer free return shipping for those that do not want to keep the grips, correct? Not sure the quantities we are talking about here, so it might not be that much money.Stories such as this one are why I usually do not pre-order (finance) any manufactured goods. I would have personally waited until the product hit the market so i could get my hands on them. A quick look at your website didn't show anything for my Sig P220.
cowboy rich Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 I agree with Colby. The company had opportunity to inform the customers in advance and should have! As for the out of scale example, if I ordered the car and it showed up the wrong color not only would I not take delivery even with a free set of wheels I also would no longer do business with the place and I am one that when I'm happy I will send people the dealers way, when I'm not I'm one of your worst enemiesRich
MrBuick Posted June 6, 2016 Author Posted June 6, 2016 I think the scale (get it? scale! modeling!) of the example that you bring is not exactly the same but I will go along with it. So you pre-order the car and they say they can't fulfill the color so instead they offer you an extra free set of mag rims which are retail 1/4th the price of the whole car or a full refund. I think that's fair and that is exactly what we are offering here.I can kind of see where you're coming from, but I still feel like you're missing my point.1) According to the emails that were sent, the spare grip panel is to make up for the delay in shipping, as the difference in colors was never disclosed to the customer, but the inclusion of the free grip panels was.2) The grip panels are honestly kind of a big "who cares?" People are unlikely to swap them once they're installed...they're going to pick one or the other, which if memory serves me correctly was originally already an option when ordering back when multiple colors were advertised. 3)...and really my main point...my complaint isn't that you are or aren't offering anything that's fair. My complaint is that you have taken customers' money, the customer thinks they're receiving one thing, now you've changed their order at a later time, didn't notify the customer, and are now shipping a different item, still without notifying them. So, for your customers who ordered a non-grey grip and didn't see the few posts on Facebook, this will still be a complete surprise...they will soon receive a package, open it, and be staring at a product that is different from what they ordered, even if only slightly. Yes...it may be the same grip, but in the cases of people who ordered one in a different color, it's still a different item. No matter which angle you look at it, that is wrong. You could offer a full refund AND let customers keep the grips...that still wouldn't change the fact that it was wrong to change something that somebody'd already paid for without notifying them...there's really no way to successfully argue against that.4) Here's why it bothers me so much, and I think it's safe to say I speak for many people other than myself. In addition to wanting to support the success of small business, a huge reason I like doing business with smaller companies is because you can almost universally expect excellent customer service from them. They have to care about their customers more than larger companies with more recognizable names or more products available to retain business. Yes, you are currently manufacturing a high-quality product that many customers want and isn't offered by another company, I don't want to ignore that fact, but my point still holds firm. Below is an example of excellent service I've had with Recover in the past. But now, fast forward a year and some months later, and this situation is beginning to make me fear that Recover is starting to focus a little more on their bottom line and less on their customer...which is what the "big boys" do. While I understand that a company is ultimately there to make money, and can't offer service to their customers if they don't exist, at the end of the day, customer service should still be your primary focus. What get's me is, I'm not even asking for anything. I'm not saying you should give stuff away, give partial refunds, ship even more free stuff, or asking for anything of monetary value. ALL I'm doing is trying to offer a solution for how this situation could be better handled, should something like this occur again (which, by-the-way, it appears I don't stand alone on my thinking), but you seem to think it's a situation where since you're offering something arbitrary for free, that it's been handled correctly. PLEASE take my advice...the situation WASN'T handled properly...I don't even feel like that's an opinion, but a fact...no matter how few people actually care enough about the change to be upset, I'd be willing to bet everybody would answer "yes" if asked, "do you feel you should have been notified that the grip you bought might not be as described?" I do feel like I should mention this though. I don't want to give people the wrong idea about Recover Tactical. Generally, I've been very happy with the company and their customer service. In the past when you released the holster for the 1911, you were offering a free set of compatible grips for people who owned the original CC3 grips...I believe the deal was order the holster and you'd send you the new set of CC3H grips in exchange for the older ones. Prior to purchasing, I contacted Recover because I had modified my original CC3 grips. In additional to Duracoating them, I'd inlet them somewhat for fitment because they didn't quite fit my slightly out-of-spec frame on the pistol they were on. Since they were modified, I was just curious if I'd quality for the free replacement set. Simply put, Recover was fantastic to deal with and promptly told me not to worry, just send pictures to prove my ownership and they'd send the free set, which they didn't have to do. So, my customer service complaint is really just about this situation in discussion, as my previous experience has been great, but again, this situation makes me question whether customer service has taken a turn for the worse.
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) Colby...good of you to try to be fair in reporting your past POSITIVE experiences with this company.On another note however, it's been my experience over the years that there are some people in the world who are simply incapable of saying "I was wrong". They'll do any amount of maneuvering, issue-dodging, blame shifting, excuse-making and citing of mitigating-circumstances to avoid making a simple admission that they could have done something differently, for the betterment of all.The fact that this particular company's current spokesman seems to be incapable of admitting the company SHOULD HAVE notified their customers that THE COLORS THEY ORDERED WEREN'T GOING TO BE THE COLORS SHIPPED pretty well insures I'll not be buying anything they make, no matter how good the quality is.Principles matter, as does telling the truth without being forced. Edited June 6, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy
MrBuick Posted June 6, 2016 Author Posted June 6, 2016 Colby...good of you to try to be fair in reporting your past POSITIVE experiences with this company.On another note however, it's been my experience over the years that there are some people in the world who are simply incapable of saying "I was wrong". They'll do any amount of maneuvering, blame shifting, excuse-making and citing of mitigating-circumstances to avoid making a simple admission that they could have done something differently, for the betterment of all.I really am trying to be fair...I like the company, and I'm not trying to slander them. I'm simply trying to do my part to help them improve their service in the future. Whether they take my advice or write me off as a crazed troll is beyond my control, but I'd be remiss if I didn't at least try.
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) What they need to realize is that NOBODY likes to order one thing and get something else. If I order a plaid shirt, I don't want to open the mail and find a blue shirt, even if it comes with a free set of pocket protectors and a dozen spare buttons.Tell me FIRST you can't do plaid after all, and give ME the option, rather than trying to shove something else down my throat...as a surprise.Sure, if notified in advance, there are probably some people who would have canceled their orders. BUT, I'd wager the majority would have been OK with it had they been given the option BEFORE opening the things and being disappointed.Maybe management had a meeting and decided there would probably be fewer cancellations (refunds) if the wrong color was shipped without notice, banking on the fact that a lot of people won't go to all the trouble of shipping something back to get a refund.If this is the case, i still say it's chickenexhaust. It may be the way bean-counting "business" is taught these days, but it ain't right. It's long-term stupid.A far far wiser man than I once said "focus on good quality and service and the money will come". It's true, but most companies today focus primarily on getting the bucks and damm anything that gets in the way. Edited June 6, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy
bobthehobbyguy Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 I think the scale (get it? scale! modeling!) of the example that you bring is not exactly the same but I will go along with it. So you pre-order the car and they say they can't fulfill the color so instead they offer you an extra free set of mag rims which are retail 1/4th the price of the whole car or a full refund. I think that's fair and that is exactly what we are offering here.However the next time you offer an item for preorder your customers may not be willing to preorder because they are not going to be sure what they get.
charlie8575 Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 Colby, I think you're absolutely correct.If it were my company, and something like this happened, this is what I would have done.Dear valued customer,Due to unexpected complications in the production of our product that you have pre-ordered, we need to announce the following changes.The product XYZ, originally scheduled to be produced in cyan, canary, magenta and black, will only be produced in canary due to issues with achieving proper distribution of color in the plastic. According to our records, you ordered an XYZ in one of now non-scheduled colors. We sincerely apologize for this and hope we can retain your business, or at least your confidence to do business with us again. Therefore, we would like to offer you the following adjustment choices.1. If you wish, you will be issued a full refund of all money paid within fourteen (14) business days. You will be refunded either by electronic funds transfer or company cheque, depending on the method used to pay originally, thus cancelling your order.Or, 2. We will give you a 25% adjustment on the original price, with a refund cheque to be issued within ten (10) business days of shipping the merchandise. We thank your for your patronage and look forward to the opportunity to do business with you again. Not real tough, eh?Charlie Larkin
1930fordpickup Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 I think the scale (get it? scale! modeling!) of the example that you bring is not exactly the same but I will go along with it. So you pre-order the car and they say they can't fulfill the color so instead they offer you an extra free set of mag rims which are retail 1/4th the price of the whole car or a full refund. I think that's fair and that is exactly what we are offering here.It is good to see that you are offering a free gift because your end of the deal was not as advertised. Not many places would even do this.
cowboy rich Posted June 6, 2016 Posted June 6, 2016 Colby, I think you're absolutely correct.If it were my company, and something like this happened, this is what I would have done.Dear valued customer,Due to unexpected complications in the production of our product that you have pre-ordered, we need to announce the following changes.The product XYZ, originally scheduled to be produced in cyan, canary, magenta and black, will only be produced in canary due to issues with achieving proper distribution of color in the plastic. According to our records, you ordered an XYZ in one of now non-scheduled colors. We sincerely apologize for this and hope we can retain your business, or at least your confidence to do business with us again. Therefore, we would like to offer you the following adjustment choices.1. If you wish, you will be issued a full refund of all money paid within fourteen (14) business days. You will be refunded either by electronic funds transfer or company cheque, depending on the method used to pay originally, thus cancelling your order.Or, 2. We will give you a 25% adjustment on the original price, with a refund cheque to be issued within ten (10) business days of shipping the merchandise. We thank your for your patronage and look forward to the opportunity to do business with you again. Not real tough, eh?Charlie Larkinin my opinion that's how it should have been handled.
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