1961 Chrysler 383

[MrObsessive]

Ok, I'll admit I'm not a Mopar expert 'cept when it comes to how they should look body line wise and perhaps certain models. I got recently a clean built (not a glue bomb by any means) '61 Chrysler New Yorker. What I'd like to do as a someday project (sooner rather than later) is turn it into a 300.

Yeah, there was a resin kit out there, but when they do turn up prices are outrageous at best, and I can build the same thing and have nice chassis and engine detail to boot for a LOT less money.

What I need to know is which kit (if any) out there would represent the best engine that was in this car in '61? IIRC, these came with 383's with the long ram induction for the carburetors. I have the ram induction tubes for the carbs, but I'm not sure which engine out there kit wise would be reasonably accurate.

Thanks for any info guys.........I know there's plenty of you Mopar folks in the know! 

[Furiousgeorge]

If I recall correctly, the B series engines ranged from 350 to 440 cubic inches, and began production in the late '50's. Any MoPar big block engine will work, as the difference in scale between a 383 and a 440 are (I think) indistinguishable to the naked eye. Since you already have the cross ram set up, you're nearly there. I'd recommend the 440 from the Revell '68/9 Chargers and Daytona, if you need a 1/25. Love those kits!

[gtx6970]

Use the engine assy from the revell 68 69 charger or the dart kit. 

Just modify the valve  covers into the earlier 4 bolt style

[keyser]

Bill, I'd kill for a 61 300. Tried to buy nice one off auction place, it arrived with WSF broken to bits, was perfect in photos. Back it went, it was stupid money. Canted lights were killer. 

Here's thread with best engine for a 300, 61 or 62. http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/114668-chrysler-413-cross-ram-in-1962/#comment-1653837

[MrObsessive]

Oh Ok! I've got a number of those kits lying around!

BTW, here's what got me very interested in tackling this car someday. I tune into Jay Leno's Garage from time to time, and got a message on my phone recently that this particular car was being featured. I watched it and saved the video for reference that car was soooooo sharp!

Also from what my Dad had told me years ago, this was a car he wanted BADLY when it was new as he was a solid Mopar man through and through. The car was too expensive for him at the time as my Mom was pregnant with me, and he was the only one working------the car cost as much as he made in a whole year back then.

[MrObsessive]

Christian, thanks for the link! I had forgotten about that thread and that clears some things up.

 

[CometMan]

Bill, the re-issue of the AMT Trophy Series '49 Merc Coupe has a RI engine in it, being that that kit was originally produced in the early 60s may be a little more period correct for '61 than the Charger engine.

[timc]

Bill, Have you thought about a Ross Gibson engine?  I have the 383 with the long ram intakes and carbs. It looks to be from the right era.  But as with R G's passing they might be a little hard to find. I hope this helps bigtim.

[MrObsessive]

Bill, the re-issue of the AMT Trophy Series '49 Merc Coupe has a RI engine in it, being that that kit was originally produced in the early 60s may be a little more period correct for '61 than the Charger engine.

Craig, your comment had me going up to the (very warm) third floor of my house and do some scavenging. Years ago, I built a bone stock '49 Merc and had kept the box with all the extra bits and pieces. Sure enough, I see the engine you're talking about, but the intake manifold wouldn't be correct. 

When I built my '69 Daytona years ago, I built it using the Hemi from another kit (the kit only gives you a 440) so I have the complete engine with the manifold leftover from that one as well. With some fiddling, I could take the manifold out of that kit, and get it to work with the engine out of the Merc kit. 

Bill, Have you thought about a Ross Gibson engine?  I have the 383 with the long ram intakes and carbs. It looks to be from the right era.  But as with R G's passing they might be a little hard to find. I hope this helps bigtim.

I just checked on eBay, and I do see one. Hmmm...........I'll have to think about that one as it's a bit pricey. OTOH, as you said his items will only get harder to find.

 

[CometMan]

Craig, your comment had me going up to the (very warm) third floor of my house and do some scavenging. Years ago, I built a bone stock '49 Merc and had kept the box with all the extra bits and pieces. Sure enough, I see the engine you're talking about, but the intake manifold wouldn't be correct. 

When I built my '69 Daytona years ago, I built it using the Hemi from another kit (the kit only gives you a 440) so I have the complete engine with the manifold leftover from that one as well. With some fiddling, I could take the manifold out of that kit, and get it to work with the engine out of the Merc kit. 

 

 

Bill, glad I could help with an idea! Besides, watching you "fiddle" with things is always worth the price of admission!!

[Mark]

The Merc engine has its place in the scheme of things, but not as a stock engine.  The oil pan is different from stock to fit the Merc chassis, and it has an early Ford transmission adapted to it.  One of the newer tool engines would be a better choice.  You'll still probably have to mess with things like exhaust manifolds to get the right combination of parts for the Chrysler.  Then, it's on to the underbody...

[MrObsessive]

Then, it's on to the underbody...

Ohhhh! I have plans in mind for that!

 

[SfanGoch]

Instead of forking over fifty bucks for the Ross Gibson engine, you might consider Revell 85-7603, the "69 Dodge Dart GTS as a donor

which comes with a nice 383. 

 

[unclescott58]

Oh Ok! I've got a number of those kits lying around!

BTW, here's what got me very interested in tackling this car someday. I tune into Jay Leno's Garage from time to time, and got a message on my phone recently that this particular car was being featured. I watched it and saved the video for reference that car was soooooo sharp!

Also from what my Dad had told me years ago, this was a car he wanted BADLY when it was new as he was a solid Mopar man through and through. The car was too expensive for him at the time as my Mom was pregnant with me, and he was the only one working------the car cost as much as he made in a whole year back then.

I love the true letter cars. My favorite is the F. With as Jay, I, and others call it the toilet seat trunk lid. The Beautiful Brutes. And there are not enough model kits of them. Other than Moebius' '55 and '56. AMT's '57. And maybe Johan's '62 - '65 300s. The cars have been generally ignored. By the way, I'm not 100% sure if the '62 - '65 Johan 300s were letter cars or not. I had the '62 that was reissued in the 70's. I remember it said 300H on the outside of the car. But, the interior looked more like a plain, non-letter 300. Can anybody confirm this? Sad to say, my favorite, the F, is only in my collection through die-cast models.

I'm not a fan of 1/18 scale die-cast models. I have only 3 that I've purchased for myself. And 2 more that were given as gifts. Of the 3 I've purchased. One is Ertl's '37 Cord convertible coupe. Two is the Hot Wheels '66 Batmobile. And the third one is Yat Ming's 1960 Chrysler 300F convertible. The two 1/18 die-casts given to me that I've kept? Both are put out by Maisto. One a '71 Chevelle SS 454 convertible. The other a '56 Chrysler 300B. Two out of five 1/18 die-casts are letter cars. That tells you want I think of the letter cars.

The only other F in my collection is a hardtop in 1/64, put out by M2. I'd love to see more letter cars made into 1/25 plastic kits. The E, F, G, and L would all get my money with little to no hesitation.

[MrObsessive]

Mind you this project is in the distant (not too distant) future. Once I get my sight back to normal, I plan on finishing the BMW. Next on the agenda as you all know is the Shelby "Green Hornet". In fact, just before I started having trouble with my eyesight, I had made marks and lines on the two bodies (the '66 and '68) of exactly where I want to make the cuts.

After the Shelby, I'll probably dig out another box stock kit (more than likely Tamiya) and then it's back to the '50's. Absolute high on my list is to forever fix that '58 Plymouth! Even more so than doing the 300G, that's one car that I've been itching to fix for the longest time, and now I have in my mind and arsenal just how to fix it.

After that (or maybe simultaneously), will come the 300. 

Barring anything unforeseen, I'd like to have these all under my belt within the next year and a half.

We shall see!

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

Really shouldn't be too hard of a transformation on the outside.

Not sure about the interior.

My guess is that might be a little tougher.

You could combine the grille surround of the New Yorker with the "cross" on the '62 300.

The side spears might be a little fiddly, but there again you could probably cast the ones from the '62 & cut them down to fit.

There seems to be very little difference in the rear styling between the two.

 

Steve

 

 

 

[MrObsessive]

Steve, the interior particularly the seats, I'll more than likely have to scratchbuild those. Either from nothing, or modified from other seats. The side trim..........I can scratch that also, including the roundels on the side. Or, I could order a PE set from MCG as he does a set for the '57 and do some "mixing and matching".

[StevenGuthmiller]

 By the way, I'm not 100% sure if the '62 - '65 Johan 300s were letter cars or not. I had the '62 that was reissued in the 70's. I remember it said 300H on the outside of the car. But, the interior looked more like a plain, non-letter 300. Can anybody confirm this?

The '62- '64 300s could be had as either a letter car or not.

The interior you mentioned for the '62 kit looks goofy because it's actually a tub swiped from the '65 promo.

Evidently the correct interior tub mold was lost before Johan reissued it.

This is what the original interior looks like as apposed to the later addition.

The blue one is the correct original.

The white is the '65 promo re-pop.

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

Steve, the interior particularly the seats, I'll more than likely have to scratchbuild those. Either from nothing, or modified from other seats. The side trim..........I can scratch that also, including the roundels on the side. Or, I could order a PE set from MCG as he does a set for the '57 and do some "mixing and matching".

I had forgotten about the MCG '57 set.

That certainly should make life a bit easier.

 

Steve

[unclescott58]

That explains a lot Steve. I knew the interior didn't look quite right for an H. Steve you said that some of the JoHan '62 - '65 300s could be built as letter cars. Do you or anyone else out there know exactly which ones?

[1972coronet]

Bill , I wish to tee my hat into the ring regarding the engine / transmission : Aside from the aforementioned 4 bolt rocker covers , and the induction setup , there are two distinct items onthe 1961 models :

1. ) Last year for the Road Draft Tube ( first year for CCV- - later , PCV- - on California models )

2.) Last year for  the cast iron Torqueflite. ( A-488 ) , which was the only transmission available,  IIRC ( no 4 speeds at least ... except for the 1962 Point-a-Mousson trans from France) .

[om617]

Kinda funny you could get the 300G with a 3 speed manual,and no sync in first. Looks like the 60 Desoto has a R block

engine,but probably less crips detail as the Revell engines mentioned. AMT has some decent 440`s too.

But isn`t the RB a taller deck engine over the R?

[MrObsessive]

Thanks for all the help with your replies fellas! Ok, I did break down and buy the Ross Gibson engine I saw on the 'Bay.

He had a "make offer" deal, so I did pay less than he wanted for it.

Joe, I have the '69 Dart kit you showed, but I've never touched it and I'd hate to break it up just for the engine. The other options were good ones, but since the RG engine was readily available without much fuss------might as well grab it while I could. 

Of course, there are a few other bits  and pieces I'll be gathering up down the road. Chassis stuff for instance (I'm keeping that idea top secret for now ) and of course, getting bits and pieces together for the interior. I'd also like to put wire wheels and WWW's on it like the Leno car-------I kinda have an idea what to use for those.

 

[John Goschke]

What?

Bill, I thought you were gonna take a break from fins and chrome for awhile after finishing the Impala...

But, hey, what better way to jump back into the flames from the frying pan than contemplating a project like this!

I didn't see it mentioned in the thread so far, but the engine in the 300-G was a 413, not a 383. Not that it matters much since they were externally identical, I think. Perhaps a serious Mopar Motorhead can verify or clarify this for the record.

What is definitely worth noting if you're doing a high-effort build, is that the 300-G (and '60 300-F) were on the longer 126" wheelbase of the New Yorker versus the 122" Windsor/Newport wheelbase. The problem is Johan made their '60 and '61 New Yorkers to match the 122" wheelbase, probably to allow them to use the same basic pattern for the short-wheelbase '60 Desoto Adventurer and the Chrysler. I think one of the reasons the AAM resin kits command such big bucks is that this discrepancy was corrected for their model.

I'm pretty sure the added length is all in front of the cowl, so that the fenders and hood need to be four scale inches longer.

It's also worth noting that the '62 300-H and non-letter 300 were on the 122" wheelbase, so that Johan kit is correct in that respect.

 

[John Goschke]

 

Maybe you could do it as one the rare cars with the three-speed stick shift....

 

Another one, in red.....

https://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2015/01/07/gentlemans-express-rare-option-code-281-chrysler-300g-to-cross-the-block/

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2016 by John Goschke