very very rare Mopar NASCAR headers?

[fiatboy]

How ya going?  (that's Yooper speak)  Mopar, in NASCAR I think, or maybe from the Ramchargers.  These headers looked like the ones on automobile engine powered 'ski boats': they went high then back.  I bought a set of these in 1/25 scale but do not know to 'apply them'.  I forget from whom I bought them (resin).  I will try to post a photo.  Any info would be helpful.  Thank you.

[1930fordpickup]

Jeff are you asking how to attach them, because they are resin? I would think that Super Glue gel should do the trick. 

What  is a Yooper doing living with the trolls ? LOL 

 

[Force]

If they are what I believe they are you probably got them from The Modelhaus, I have bought a couple of sets of these special racing cast iron manifolds from them in the past.
Attach them to the heads with super glue or 2-part epoxy.

[426-Hemi]

-Got my interest to see just what these "headers" ARE.....

[High octane]

Sounds like the "ram horn" manifolds to me?

[Bill J]

I'm wondering if these are not the headers that came in the old Johan Dodge, the through the fender drag racing headers from the Max Wedge. Perhaps the OP is looking at them from an upside down perspective. MCW was making them in resin, not sure if they still do.

[High octane]

I'm wondering if these are not the headers that came in the old Johan Dodge, the through the fender drag racing headers from the Max Wedge. Perhaps the OP is looking at them from an upside down perspective. MCW was making them in resin, not sure if they still do.

I don't think they're the ones from the JoHan ReCharged kit, but the cast iron ram's horn manifolds.

[426-Hemi]

 known as the "Petty Headers"..... As Petty Enterprise way back when was a "Dealer" in anything Mopar and to get those, you HAD to get them through him Even Mopar then wouldn't just sell 'em over the counter!!!

HOWEVER, Jo-Hans, made them originally, then MPC made them (In the '67 Dodge Charger kit!) and now Moebius makes a set too! They were however found in numerous Jo-Hans kits NASCAR or not! The most recent re-issue of the MPC-Round 2, '67 Dodge Charger kit has a variation of them like the old original kit had!

I have a few:

IF I remember correctly the Moebius '65 Plymouth Belvedere has them in it! -I know its one of their newest releases (I have yet to get the kit!)

[dodgefever]

I think you're barking up the wrong tree there,,, those don't go "up and back" like boat headers.  It sounds like the OP is referring to cast Max Wedge manifolds.

 

[Dodge Driver]

I've seen the 64 Johan Max Wedge headers sold in resin and billed as "Ultra Rare". Hart's Parts resin has 'em.

[MarkJ]

Are you talking about these?

 

 

 

[bbowser]

Are you talking about these?

 

 

 

Now those are some weird headers!  I'd never seen ones like that before.  Square tubes to match square ports?

[Bill J]

From what I have heard about those Max Wedge headers, they were the first attempt at a street/drag header for the 426 wedge. They were cast iron down to where the second section is bolted on. What I heard was that very few sets were actually made due to difficulties casting them.

The headers that were used on the NASCAR hemi in 1964 were exactly like the ones posted above by John Patton. The real ones were cast iron where they bolted to the head for a short section and then steel tubing was welded on for the rest of the header. That was not legal in NASCAR in 64 but they looked the other way to let the hemi run. The hemi was not really legal either. NASCAR banned the hemi in 1965 because they were not available. Which was why Chrysler boycotted NASCAR in 65. The hemi was not available from the dealers and not a production piece until like 66 or 67. Tubing headers were legal in NASCAR starting on 1965 and most cars ran them after that.

[426-Hemi]

The "Max-Wedge" Manifolds on the FIRST Max-Wedge pic is the 426, EARLY stage. Those were the on-set of the following ones that were called "Ram-Horn Manifolds" in 1:1 those are worth a complete Collage education! LOL They were however an attempt to make a "cast Iron" Manifold with the out-come of a Header, and were real close to what was available way-back-when.... They are however made in model form Ross Gibson made them (ONLY HALF A "SET" tho!) Then I think Jo-Hans made them too....

The '64 426 Hemi WAS NOT "illegal" in NASCAR, period! It was THAT engine that changed the rules! It came to Daytona 500 in '64, took everyone by storm (Including the drivers that controlled the car they were in) and set SERIOUS records, and then in '65 was said that ALL competitors engines and cars had to have at least 500 to sell to the general public, due to that Chrysler sat out of the '65 NASCAR season.... To get the 426 Hemi back they had to make it a "street" engine as in all its "truest" form was designed to do just WHAT it did, take NASCAR by storm! They didn't know what to do, and thats when the rules changed on it, and so, the 426 Hemi came to street use in '66, and lasted till '71! AFTER Chrysler made the 426 Hemi street legal, and sold 500 of those engines in the '66 model year, NASCAR had to allow them to use the engine, and again, it took the track and drivers by storm! THEN Ford, came to Bill France with the 427 SOHC "Cammer" (ALSO A "Hemi") and was trying to get it "legal" on the tracks, and Chrysler counter-acted it with the 426 DOHC Hemi deemed "The Dooms Day Machine".. The Ford was declined to run on the tracks, and Chrysler dropped the making and continuance of the 426 DOHC Hemi.

NOW as far as those headers go, the flange on the NASCAR 426 Hemi headers, the flange part, was bolted to the head, made of cast iron, and had tubing flared-flanged INSIDE that cast-iron head flanged edge. Ran to a second cast iron flange and same thing, and then the 2 flanges bolted together to another run of pipe , to where it run into a pipe manifold under the car. The 2 sides were in fact "different" not symmetrical in any way! Passenger-side had a split mid-flange, and the Drivers side only had a single mid-flange.

I've had my hands on BOTH! The Max-Wedge Ram-Horn Manifolds as well as a set of Petty Headers.. the Petty headers I've seen for sale upwards of $6,000!!!! The "Ram-Horn" manifolds normally rust out as they are in fact cast iron, mostly, and go for about $4,000 a side! 
As they are sought-after by guys with the engines in running shape!

And yes to the poster that mentioned about the porting, the exhaust runners in the head are HUGE as well as square with rounded "corners", and NO, those manifolds will NOT just bolt onto ANY Mopar Big Block engine! -Were made specifically for the Max-Wedge heads they bolt too! -And you simply can not just bolt a Max-Wedge head to a 440 block, the intake valve WILL hit the cylinder wall edge/corner, as the 413 AND the 426 blocks were "notched" in the top of the cylinder wall where the valve was for when it was open.... And the heads were in fact closed chambered heads........to keep compression as high as they could get it! 

Edited December 10, 2016 by 426-Hemi
Weird spacing!

[Force]

Are you talking about these?

 

 

 

Those are the ones I bought from The Modelhaus, these cast iron headers didn't last long on the Mopar Max Wedge race engines as they were replaced with a lot lighter tube headers to save weight.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Force

[426-Hemi]

Those are the ones I bought from The Modelhaus, these cast iron headers didn't last long on the Mopar Max Wedge race engines as they were replaced with a lot lighter tube headers to save weight.

I'm sorry but those Ram-Horn Manifolds were THEE LAST "manifolds" the Max-Wedge engines used, the first ones were more "tube-like".... BUT these engines were thee engine just before the 426 Hemi came about in '64.....  The 426 Max-Wedge III was thee block that the Hemi heads and intake were bolted too! Here have a read on the REAL "History" of the Max-Wedge engines:

http://maxwedge.com/orangemonster/orangemonster.php

[10thumbs]

Great info, thanks John Patton.

[gtx6970]

Are you talking about these?

 

 

 

Those are what the Mopar world refer to as the Tri-Y manifolds. To the best of my knowledge they were never installed on a Mopar production line car from the factory.  EXTREMELY rare to find today

 

[gtx6970]

 known as the "Petty Headers"..... As Petty Enterprise way back when was a "Dealer" in anything Mopar and to get those, you HAD to get them through him Even Mopar then wouldn't just sell 'em over the counter!!!

HOWEVER, Jo-Hans, made them originally, then MPC made them (In the '67 Dodge Charger kit!) and now Moebius makes a set too! They were however found in numerous Jo-Hans kits NASCAR or not! The most recent re-issue of the MPC-Round 2, '67 Dodge Charger kit has a variation of them like the old original kit had!

I have a few:

IF I remember correctly the Moebius '65 Plymouth Belvedere has them in it! -I know its one of their newest releases (I have yet to get the kit!)

These are the style Mopar installed on every Hemi equipped Dodge and Plymouth in 1964 and 1965 . The 1st inch or so is a cast iron  upper flange with steel tubes welded on . Not impossible to find today, but not exactly growing on trees either. Most were discarded early on in lew of actual steel tube aftermkt  headers.

[426-Hemi]

Those are what the Mopar world refer to as the Tri-Y manifolds. To the best of my knowledge they were never installed on a Mopar production line car from the factory.  EXTREMELY rare to find today

 

I'm sorry, NO they were not called "Tri-Y" manifolds, I've NEVER seen that ANYWHERE in all my books and all from Chrysler them selves! These were called Ram-Horn Manifolds!

Schumacher made the "Tri-Y" a name of there own exhuast, and those are headers! Seen here:

 http://engine-swaps.com/Pages/ProductsType/BRB_Headers.html

Those REAL Chrysler Ram-Horn Manifolds are as you say ARE RARE, and sought after for what they are........ And those guys with them, say they flow almost as good as a set of pipe headers specifically made for the Max-Wedge engines.

More on the "High-Performance Wedge engine 413" AND the 426 Max-Wedge here:

http://www.allpar.com/WEDGE.HTML

As you ALL can read, and view the pics posted there, you can see the 426-A Max-Wedge (dated 1962) has those pipe-like manifolds that look like "up-sweeping" headers, but are cast iron! You look further down the page little over half way down the page), you can see a "426 Max Wedge Stage III" dating from 1964!!!!!

And yes, you'd be right to say that they were NEVER offered in "street" use cars, they were strictly racing only, just as the 426 Hemi was originally meant  to be Till NASCAR rules changed to make the cars used in the races for the general "public".... thats WHY Chrysler did NOT race in NASCAR in '65.... That sat out, to make the 426 Hemi STREETABLE!, and once done, offered them in the '66 Charger to the general public, in '66 to also return to the race track in NASCAR the '66 season! 

Edited December 11, 2016 by 426-Hemi
Added Commentary

[426-Hemi]

These are the style Mopar installed on every Hemi equipped Dodge and Plymouth in 1964 and 1965 . The 1st inch or so is a cast iron  upper flange with steel tubes welded on . Not impossible to find today, but not exactly growing on trees either. Most were discarded early on in lew of actual steel tube aftermkt  headers.

And to state this is WRONG! These were NASCAR only headers! They were used in '64, (NOT '65 Chrysler did NOT run in NASCAR in '65) and then were used in NASCAR in '66, AFTER '66, they used standard type headers fitting the 426 Hemi. The 426 "Street" Hemi used cast-iron manifolds..... Here you can see the 426 Hemi "Street" manifolds:

http://www.moparmall.com/Exhaust-Manifold-Set-w-Hardware-Gaskets-for-1966-p/848-072_925-012_706-029_a.htm

On the engine:

https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/mus/2005/01/Living-in-the-Limelight---1970-Plymouth-Road-Runner/1281067.html#PhotoSwipe1481478364564

These NASCAR headers were nic named "Petty Headers", as Petty Enterprise was thee ONLY way to get them, in the '64 to '66 years! From reading the history and knowing a little of the King Himself, if you KNEW him way back when and had a STREET car, he'd sell you a set, BUT you had to know him to get them! Chrysler themself, gave Richard Petty the dealership use on release of the 426 Hemi "NASCAR" engines, and I BET vital parts of my Anatomy, right now, he's got more then half a dozen of those engines and all the parts needed to build each one to this very day! Heres a set for SALE on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-Dodge-330-Plymouth-Savoy-426-Race-Hemi-Exhaust-Headers-3-Piece-Set-WOW-/291827185622?hash=item43f24177d6:g:BJkAAOSwstxU1r-r&vxp=mtr

$4,899.00 for 3/4th a SET of them!

Granted, if you didn't GET the headers to fit your Hemi from Richard, they were NOT like those seen in the Jo-Hans kits.... They were what we now know as Hemi Headers from say "Doug's Headers" or "Hedman Headers", or even TTi....just a steel flange with pipe shaped and welded to it to fit the car, you plan to use them on!

[gtx6970]

Ok. Smarty pants. What was installed from mopar on all the 65 RO and WO Race Hemi cars.. Aka drag car packaged versions.

Its my understanding  it was NOT the stock cast iron manifolds

[426-Hemi]

Ok. Smarty pants. What was installed from mopar on all the 65 RO and WO Race Hemi cars.. Aka drag car packaged versions.

Its my understanding  it was NOT the stock cast iron manifolds

Would depend, on the race team that ran them and where THEY got their parts from! IF they were getting parts from Chrysler, they actually did NOT come with headers or manifolds, as the cars were the on-set of race car "kits"..... You bought a plain-jane car, took out what you could to make the car lighter and went from there to build that car, SO with that, the NASCAR headers would NOT have been used, so a lot of those guys went with basic steel pipe headers, as the NASCAR Petty Headers were only on the NASCAR engines UNLESS someone in that race team KNEW Richard Petty to get the NASCAR designed headers from him, you simply could not get them on ANY other car!

You however would be right that it was not Cast Iron manifolds, those were Street only...... Unless you wanted too use them for a race car was totally up to the builder.... -and what they could get back then, over the counter at a dealership, ALSO depends on the class they planned to race, if there was any rules the exhaust had to follow...

Heres a pic:

OF the exact 1965 Dodge Coronet for RO and WO racing, and the engine isn't a regular A990 race Hemi its a A864, and if you look closely, it looks to have "standard" headers on it.... NO cast iron parts in view!!!! And if you know your Mopar, has the "proper" air cleaner for such a race Hemi! The A990's either had one like it, OR was single 4 barrel intake setting on a "Bathtub" NASCAR intake that was designed by Maurice Petty (Richards Brother) Seen here:

Maurice Petty designed the Bathtub intake, to KEEP the "Cross-Ram effect", with a single carburetor as per the NASCAR rules, (One carburetor only) but if you look closely to the intake's "top" its bolted onto the original part! This pic has Maurice, right beside the engine! NOTICE the engine has NO "headers" on it? Wonder why? Its either '68 or later.... As in '67 they were still using those "Petty Headers", and when they removed the block from the car, they separated the 2nd flange and that left the front half of the Petty Headers on the engine! -This pic however has a 426 Hemi that had the last known "pipe Headers" on it, as evident in the pic the front portion of the header where it bolts to the engine isn't there!

Then you have one of the 426 Hemi's going in what looks to be a '66 Plymouth Belvedere, (Correction, a 1964 Plymouth Belvedere) notice the header:

 

Then you have:

Notice the engine? It came out of the Superbird in the picture! 1970. check out the headers on THAT 426 Hemi!

 

MOST if not ALL that I have said, I can back it up with proof from several trustworthy sources........... Without a doubt!

maxwedge.com

www.allpar.com

Just for starters.....

Edited December 11, 2016 by 426-Hemi
Added content & fixed broken link

[gtx6970]

Thats a 64 Plymouth not a 66

[426-Hemi]

Thats a 64 Plymouth not a 66

Yeah, you'd be right, a typo by me, it is a '64!!!! (I even have the model of this car.... and sadly I didn't notice I typed in '66!!!!!