I think I’m done with Duplicolor

[StevenGuthmiller]

  On 1/7/2019 at 7:19 PM, Brutalform said:

Thanks for the advice Steve. I must have had a good luck streak using the primers I was using, up until now, my luck ran out. Then factor in the quality of plastics now, was just a recipe for disaster. 

Made a trip to the store today, and grabbed some Duplicolor primers.

I’ll be testing these on some of the many Starliner extra bodies I have lying around.  

Thsnks everyone... I appreciate all of the input. 

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Those are exactly the types of primers that I use.

You could also add the red oxide primer.

 

Just remember Tom, these primers are also formulated for real cars and not for plastic, so they are hotter than hobby primers.

This is the technique that I use and it works well for me.

I shoot a coat of hobby primer such as Testors or Tamiya for the first coat.

Duplicolor primers are quite thin and do not cover all that well, but they level extremely well & create a great barrier.

Shooting a coat of Testors first gives me total coverage & a slight barrier to the Duplicolor primer.

Then it's just a matter of continuing with coats of the Duplicolor primer, starting with light coats and becoming increasingly heavier with each coat.

I use a coat of Testors followed by as many as 4 or 5 more coats of Duplicolor without suffering any detail hide.

When it is time for color, the same technique of starting with light coats followed by successively heavier ones will guard against any possible crazing.

Once you have a few color coats on, you can go nuts with clear coats if you desire.

By the time you get to that point, the plastic is entirely sealed.

 

 

Steve

Edited January 8, 2019 by StevenGuthmiller

[Brutalform]

  On 1/8/2019 at 2:14 AM, StevenGuthmiller said:

Those are exactly the types of primers that I use.

You could also add the red oxide primer.

 

Just remember Tom, these primers are also formulated for real cars and not for plastic, so they are hotter than hobby primers.

This is the technique that I use and it works well for me.

I shoot a coat of hobby primer such as Testors or Tamiya for the first coat.

Duplicolor primers are quite thin and do not cover all that well, but they level extremely well & create a great barrier.

Shooting a coat of Testors first gives me total coverage & a slight barrier to the Duplicolor primer.

Then it's just a matter of continuing with coats of the Duplicolor primer, starting with light coats and becoming increasingly heavier with each coat.

I use a coat of Testors followed by as many as 4 or 5 more coats of Duplicolor without suffering any detail hide.

When it is time for color, the same technique of starting with light coats followed by successively heavier ones will guard against any possible crazing.

Once you have a few color coats on, you can go nuts with clear coats if you desire.

By the time you get to that point, the plastic is entirely sealed.

 

 

Steve

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Thanks again, Steve. That’s great advice, as I already have some bodies already sprayed with Tamiya primer. I’ve never tried Testors. I already have the Duplicolor red oxide can. I was using that for the underside of some of my Ford build, Thunderbolts etc. 

I like the larger less expensive can, as compared to Tamiya primer size and cost. 

After seeing your paint jobs, I’ll definitely be putting your suggestions to good use.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Brutalform

[Can-Con]

Since I started using this stuff over 25 years ago I don't have all those "hot paint" problems. A couple coats airbrushed over your primer  after all your bodywork is done and your good to go. 

[Deuces]

I read somewhere folks would spray a body with Future first before shooting the primer coats... I'm not sure if that works... Guess I'll have to try the clear plastic spoon test.... Dip a clear plastic spoon in Future or spray it on... Wait for it to dry, then use some Glad Press n Seal on one side and spray your favorite primer on the other..... Once dry, remove the Press n Seal and view that side to see if the primer leached through the Future coat..... It's only an experiment.... 

If you guys try this before I do, let us know how it works please.... Pictures would help also.... Thanks! 

[MrObsessive]

  On 1/8/2019 at 3:07 AM, Can-Con said:

Since I started using this stuff over 25 years ago I don't have all those "hot paint" problems. A couple coats airbrushed over your primer  after all your bodywork is done and your good to go. 

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Yup! I HIGHLY recommend this stuff! I airbrush mine though as I'm not a big fan of their cans.

  On 1/8/2019 at 9:09 AM, Deuces said:

I read somewhere folks would spray a body with Future first before shooting the primer coats... I'm not sure if that works...

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Here's a car that I painted many years ago now that was undercoated with Future and then I shot primer and color coats over it.

If you're familiar with this model you know that it's molded in red. Monogram's '56 T-Bird that I backdated to a '55. Their red plastic is IMO notorious for showing through gray and even white primer for instance and I wanted to avoid that as some military builders I know had recommended it at the time. As you can see, the T-Bird Blue is not showing any signs of red and with the bodywork that was done to turn this into a '55, you won't see that showing either.

The main reason I don't use Future much anymore is because as I mentioned..........you need a lot of it to make sure it does the job as it shrinks incredibly.

Hope this helps!

[MrObsessive]

Another pic of that '55..........

[Deuces]

Wow, nice bird!!!!.... ☺️

[Deathgoblin]

I use Duplicolor primers on plastic all the time and haven't had any issues.  

[Brutalform]

Steve, what clear do you use.?

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 1/8/2019 at 2:15 PM, Deathgoblin said:

I use Duplicolor primers on plastic all the time and haven't had any issues.  

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Interesting. Last Revell body I shot with the stuff ('29 Ford roadster) crazed so badly, it can only be a rust bomb now. Killed the project as intended.

[StevenGuthmiller]

  On 1/8/2019 at 3:42 PM, Brutalform said:

Steve, what clear do you use.?

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Duplicolor "Perfect Match".

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

  On 1/8/2019 at 3:49 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Interesting. Last Revell body I shot with the stuff ('29 Ford roadster) crazed so badly, it can only be a rust bomb now. Killed the project as intended.

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That's why I shoot something more benign under it first.

 

 

Steve

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 1/8/2019 at 3:52 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

That's why I shoot something more benign under it first.

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I have a Gunze Ferrari that I'll be trying your method on.

It's a relatively simple build, I could possibly finish it in this lifetime, but the hood crazed badly when I shot the Duplicolor primer...and that's where I stopped.

[Brutalform]

  On 1/8/2019 at 3:51 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

Duplicolor "Perfect Match".

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

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I have a full can of that. Like I said, I’ve laid down some nice paint in the past using Duplicolor. Just the last three paint jobs were not laying down for me. Just laid down four light coats on the 65 Ford Galaxie. I went right over the Tamiya primer. Looks pretty good so far. 

[Brutalform]

It’s a bit darker than the other grays I’ve used. 

[Brutalform]

The Galaxie and Mustang were primed with Tamiya primer, and shot with Duplicolor paint and clear. Then polished with micro mesh. 

[Brutalform]

  On 1/8/2019 at 9:09 AM, Deuces said:

I read somewhere folks would spray a body with Future first before shooting the primer coats... I'm not sure if that works... Guess I'll have to try the clear plastic spoon test.... Dip a clear plastic spoon in Future or spray it on... Wait for it to dry, then use some Glad Press n Seal on one side and spray your favorite primer on the other..... Once dry, remove the Press n Seal and view that side to see if the primer leached through the Future coat..... It's only an experiment.... 

If you guys try this before I do, let us know how it works please.... Pictures would help also.... Thanks! 

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The only time I applied Future was as a clear. I really didn’t like how it looked. Did I put enough on ? Not sure but I watched a video on YouTube, and brushed it on as instructed. The car was painted silver lacquer.  I think spray clear looks better. I have a full bottle of Future on the shelf just sitting. Maybe I’ll try it again sometime on a quick build that’s a different color.

[StevenGuthmiller]

 

  On 1/8/2019 at 5:38 PM, Brutalform said:

The Galaxie and Mustang were primed with Tamiya primer, and shot with Duplicolor paint and clear. Then polished with micro mesh.

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The Duplicolor sandable gray primer is very dark.

This is part of the reason that many times I will opt for the "primer sealer" instead.

Unless I'm using a very dark color over it.

I have had mixed results with using Testors primer under Duplicolor or MCW paint in the past as well.

Sometimes it worked, sometimes not.

It was unreliable to the point that I didn't trust using it any more.

 

The affect that I was seeing in the instances where it gave me trouble were a little strange and hard to describe.

It looked almost as if the paint was dissolving the primer in spots to the point that the primer was actually rising up to the surface and peeking through the color, if that makes any sense.

Anyway, I attributed it to the fact that the Testors primer and automotive lacquers are not entirely compatible and it wasn't worth the risk of using it any more.

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

  On 1/8/2019 at 4:03 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

I have a Gunze Ferrari that I'll be trying your method on.

It's a relatively simple build, I could possibly finish it in this lifetime, but the hood crazed badly when I shot the Duplicolor primer...and that's where I stopped.

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Give it a shot or two of Testors or other hobby primer first and then a very light coat followed by progressively heavier coats of Duplicolor primer & see what you get.

I have pretty much stopped contemplating painting techniques since I fell on this regimen.

It gives me generally very consistent results.

 

Steve

[Brutalform]

  On 1/8/2019 at 6:37 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

 

The Duplicolor sandable gray primer is very dark.

This is part of the reason that many times I will opt for the "primer sealer" instead.

Unless I'm using a very dark color over it.

I have had mixed results with using Testors primer under Duplicolor or MCW paint in the past as well.

Sometimes it worked, sometimes not.

It was unreliable to the point that I didn't trust using it any more.

 

The affect that I was seeing in the instances where it gave me trouble were a little strange and hard to describe.

It looked almost as if the paint was dissolving the primer in spots to the point that the primer was actually rising up to the surface and peeking through the color, if that makes any sense.

Anyway, I attributed it to the fact that the Testors primer and automotive lacquers are not entirely compatible and it wasn't worth the risk of using it any more.

 

Steve

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I’ll stick with the Tamiya as a base, unless I have any problems. Thanks again for sharing your technique. 

[MeatMan]

Not sure about why, but I had the same issue on my Starliner with DC paint. 

My entire car came out like your issue, so I stripped it and then bought a new can of the same paint (True Blue).

I used DC primer first, thoroughly prepped, cleaned then repainted and the same result.

The last time however I went ahead and polished it with auto polish and voila, all was well. 

I used DC a lot, and it hadn't happened before. Dunno if I'll be using it again.

[RipVan]

Could any of these crazing/blushing problems be caused by mold-release agents at the factory?

I understand that some modelers are very anal about thoroughly washing the parts before painting.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 1/10/2019 at 10:23 PM, RipVan said:

Could any of these crazing/blushing problems be caused by mold-release agents at the factory?

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Nope. Mold release (silicones, waxes, greasy substances in general, and some airborne contaminants) will cause fisheyes.

[martinfan5]

  On 1/8/2019 at 4:03 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

I have a Gunze Ferrari that I'll be trying your method on.

It's a relatively simple build, I could possibly finish it in this lifetime, but the hood crazed badly when I shot the Duplicolor primer...and that's where I stopped.

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You can NOT use automotive grade primers/paints( from the can for the point of the this post) on most Japanese plastics, you need to either stick with the Japan primers ( Tamiya /Mr Surfacer, etc)  or seal the plastic first before use.    But it seems you have already learned this lesson.

 

Ive ruined/crazed more kits than I care to count from using to hot primers like Duplicolor or Craployn or even $1 primers from Wal-Mart.

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by martinfan5

[High octane]

  On 1/8/2019 at 5:27 PM, Brutalform said:

It’s a bit darker than the other grays I’ve used. 

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A "rule of thumb" for me is that I use grey primer on cars to be painted black or any silver, gunmetal,etc. For ALL other colors I use white primer and this seems to work well for me.