Modelmaster 2 step Lacquer sprays

[bluenote]

I just recently sprayed a 1965 Mustang AMT kit (1/16) with the ModelMaster Lacquer 2 step spray (Silver Blue Metallic) and this paint is fantastic!  It is so easy to spray, and covers very well.  I had this colour in Scalefinishes as well, but at the last minute I liked the idea of quickly using a rattle can (it's just so much quicker and easier)

I looked on the Testors website, and it appears that they have around 34 colours available.  The colours look fantastic, and they are mostly colours that are not offered in the Tamiya spray line.  

The silver blue metallic has been discontinued I believe, as it's no longer listed on their website.  I stumbled across one last can at my hobby shop.  It's a very nice looking colour, it's a shame they discontinued it.  Having said that, I don't know many other cars that had this as a factory colour?   Perhaps that's why it was discontinued?  I want to find another can of it, in case another future project could use it.

With all the changes with Modelmaster enamels, I really hope Testors doesn't discontinue any more colours within the 2 step Lacquer line.  Here's hoping they add even more colours!

Anyone use these?  What are your thoughts on these sprays?

[StevenGuthmiller]

I have used them and in general, they work okay.

My biggest gripe is the size of the metallic particles in the paint.

They are generally far too large for 1/25th scale.

Now I use MCW paints almost exclusively for that reason.

Testors has discontinued far more colors than they have added in recent years.

 

 

Steve

[MrObsessive]

1963 Chevrolets come to mind when I think of Silver Blue paint. You mention that it's two step........was a clear needed over the colors basically?

Yeah Steve, I'm fussy about metallic flake size also which is why when I go to my local paint guy to have paint mixed, he knows to use the smallest metallic particles possible so it's 'in scale'.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Yeah, the metallic particles are sometimes scale-suitable for bass boats, dune-buggies, or krazy kustom kars. They're not really appropriate for anything factory stock, usually, or even a normal custom paint job.

HOWEVER...the solid colors work well, spray easily, lay down nicely, and when cleared and polished, look just like today's basecoat / clear jobs on real cars.

The basecoats also make good interior colors, as they dry with a very slight sheen that mimics many upholstery finishes.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[bluenote]

Hmmm....I found the metallic particles to be pretty good actually.  Are you guys confusing the 2 step auto lacquer system vs the Testors 1 coat sprays?  I definately see that the 1 coat sprays are very out of scale metallic particles.  But I don't see that with the 2 step auto lacquer sprays.

I'm referring to these:

https://www.testors.com/product-catalog/testors-brands/model-master/auto-lacquer-paint/sprays

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

^^^  I've found some of the metallics to be OK, and some of then to be definitely way out of scale...and yes, I'm familiar with the difference between the two-step products and the huge-flake "one coat" products.

HOWEVER...there may be variation from batch to batch. I haven't used enough of them to be certain...I only know that SOME of the particles are really too large to look right.

[Snake45]

I've done 3 models with the Model Master 2-step lacquers and was pleased with the results, and I didn't consider their flakes oversized. One I clear-coated, one I rubbed out directly (no clearcoat, but about 4 coats of the lacquer), and one I wanted a bit of an aged/weathered look so just left alone and the very slight sheen gave me just what I wanted. I'll use them again. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Snake45

[bluenote]

42 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

^^^  I've found some of the metallics to be OK, and some of then to be definitely way out of scale...and yes, I'm familiar with the difference between the two-step products and the huge-flake "one coat" products.

HOWEVER...there may be variation from batch to batch. I haven't used enough of them to be certain...I only know that SOME of the particles are really too large to look right.

Thanks for the feedback!  I've only tried the Silver Blue so far.  

[tbill]

I’ve used quite a few of them, love them, and as mentioned they work good for interiors without clear coat.

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, bluenote said:

Hmmm....I found the metallic particles to be pretty good actually.  Are you guys confusing the 2 step auto lacquer system vs the Testors 1 coat sprays?  I definately see that the 1 coat sprays are very out of scale metallic particles.  But I don't see that with the 2 step auto lacquer sprays.

I'm referring to these:

https://www.testors.com/product-catalog/testors-brands/model-master/auto-lacquer-paint/sprays

 

Yes, I understand which paints you are referring too, and while some of them are closer to scale than others, a good majority of them are still way too large.

You have to remember that anything over 1/25th the size of the 1:1 is out of scale.

Examine a 1:1 automobile with metallic paint up close and see if you can pick out individual flakes of metallic.

Now imagine those particles 1/25th that size.

They would be nearly imperceptible.

As a matter of fact, when I look at the size of the particles in the paint of the 1:1 cars sitting in my garage, it is obvious to me that the particles in that paint are even smaller than what you see coming out of most model paint cans.

I realize the difficulty with replicating particles that small, but if you can even make out individual particles of metallic, they're too large.

Even a lot of paints like MCW, which are formulated to combat this issue, will still have particles which are too large.

I like to use the example of the MCW "Cay Coral" paint that I used on this 1958 Impala as an illustration of what 1/25th scale metallic paint should look like.

Even up close, it is nearly impossible to pick out individual metallic particles, yet it has a nice metallic "sheen".

This is what I measure all others by.

 

 

Steve

 

[Mr. Metallic]

2 hours ago, bluenote said:

Hmmm....I found the metallic particles to be pretty good actually. 

 

That's the key sentiment right there. If you're happy with it, then run with it. 

There has been much debate about this subject and will never be definitively resolved because it's subjective, but what it boils down to is, if you're happy, that's all that matters.

[StevenGuthmiller]

55 minutes ago, Mr. Metallic said:

That's the key sentiment right there. If you're happy with it, then run with it. 

There has been much debate about this subject and will never be definitively resolved because it's subjective, but what it boils down to is, if you're happy, that's all that matters.

That is true.

Whatever you find acceptable is good.

But it is not entirely subjective.

If you're building anything that is supposed to replicate 1:1 in 1/25th scale, scale is exceedingly important.

It would not be convincing to put a 1/12 engine in a 1/32 car.

Unless you're dealing in fantasy subjects.

 

Steve

[Mr. Metallic]

17 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

That is true.

Whatever you find acceptable is good.

But it is not entirely subjective.

If you're building anything that is supposed to replicate 1:1 in 1/25th scale, scale is exceedingly important.

It would not be convincing to put a 1/12 engine in a 1/32 car.

Unless you're dealing in fantasy subjects.

 

Steve

When you're talking about particles that can't even be accurately measured with a micrometer, I'd say it's a subjective matter if it "looks right"

Everyone, build what you want. if it makes you happy that's what it's about

[bluenote]

So, after all the feedback here, I was curious about how the same colour in Scalefinishes would look (I bought the colours months ago).  I sprayed it on a spoon, and it actually did look a bit better.  Then, I put on a couple of coats overtop of the Modelmaster lacquer, and to be honest, i do prefer the Scalefinishes over the Modelmaster.  It wasn't a huge difference, but it did look a bit better.  

I was also impressed with how easy the Scalefinishes paint is to apply.  It covered very well, and laid down very nicely.  Also, was very easy to clean out of the airbrush.

I think I'll try Scalefinishes again for my next project.  At least I know they'll have any paint colour that tamiya/modelmasters would not have!

[martinfan5]

12 hours ago, bluenote said:

 

I was also impressed with how easy the Scalefinishes paint is to apply.  It covered very well, and laid down very nicely.  Also, was very easy to clean out of the airbrush.

I think I'll try Scalefinishes again for my next project.  At least I know they'll have any paint colour that tamiya/modelmasters would not have!

Yep, its great paint.

[StevenGuthmiller]

On 1/9/2019 at 7:34 AM, Mr. Metallic said:

When you're talking about particles that can't even be accurately measured with a micrometer, I'd say it's a subjective matter if it "looks right"

Everyone, build what you want. if it makes you happy that's what it's about

I would never deny anybody's right to use whatever materials that they see fit, but in this case, the OP asked for our opinion on this subject.

I am just offering my opinion.

As far as the particle size goes, it may be difficult to measure particle size differences with a micrometer, but it is not hard to discern the difference with the naked eye.

These examples are typical of the distinctions between a common rattle can metallic paint as apposed to an air brush paint formulated for 1/25th scale.

While using MCW or Scale Finishes paints may not be for everyone, in general, you will achieve a much more realistic looking paint job with them than with the majority of Testors or Duplicolor metallics.

Not to say that there are not some other good metallic paints available, but I believe that you will experience much greater uniformity in the particle size and greater realism with the airbrush colors.

 

I apologize to Tom Andrukaitis for using his '64 Ford photo in this comparison.

 

 

 

 

 

On 1/9/2019 at 7:47 AM, bluenote said:

So, after all the feedback here, I was curious about how the same colour in Scalefinishes would look (I bought the colours months ago).  I sprayed it on a spoon, and it actually did look a bit better.  Then, I put on a couple of coats overtop of the Modelmaster lacquer, and to be honest, i do prefer the Scalefinishes over the Modelmaster.  It wasn't a huge difference, but it did look a bit better.  

I was also impressed with how easy the Scalefinishes paint is to apply.  It covered very well, and laid down very nicely.  Also, was very easy to clean out of the airbrush.

I think I'll try Scalefinishes again for my next project.  At least I know they'll have any paint colour that tamiya/modelmasters would not have!

I would be interested to see a side by side comparison of the Model Master and Scale Finishes colors "bluenote".

I have not used Scale Finishes colors, but might like to give them a try in the future.

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

[bluenote]

20 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I would never deny anybody's right to use whatever materials that they see fit, but in this case, the OP asked for our opinion on this subject.

I am just offering my opinion.

As far as the particle size goes, it may be difficult to measure particle size differences with a micrometer, but it is not hard to discern the difference with the naked eye.

These examples are typical of the distinctions between a common rattle can metallic paint as apposed to an air brush paint formulated for 1/25th scale.

While using MCW or Scale Finishes paints may not be for everyone, in general, you will achieve a much more realistic looking paint job with them than with the majority of Testors or Duplicolor metallics.

Not to say that there are not some other good metallic paints available, but I believe that you will experience much greater uniformity in the particle size and greater realism with the airbrush colors.

 

I apologize to Tom Andrukaitis for using his '64 Ford photo in this comparison.

 

 

 

 

 

I would be interested to see a side by side comparison of the Model Master and Scale Finishes colors "bluenote".

I have not used Scale Finishes colors, but might like to give them a try in the future.

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

Sure, I'll do that next week.  One thing I noticed with the Scalefinishes, is that the Scalefinishes Ford Silver Blue metallic (factory code "y") that I sprayed on the body is actually looking much lighter than the reference pictures on line.  It looks much more "silvery" then blue.  I shook the paint pretty well before airbrushing.  

I'm going to put on a couple of more coats and see if it gets darker/shows more blue.  

[StevenGuthmiller]

Thanks bluenote.

As a general rule, at least with MCW paints, they will tend to darken slightly after a couple of coats.

The colors can be a little on the transparent side.

One trick that I like to do is to shoot a color base with a can of Duplicolor paint that is close in color to my finish color before spraying the MCW paint.

This not only will give you a good impervious base, but it will also save on the MCW paint.

Most times I can get buy with 2 or 3 coats of MCW this way & save myself a half of an ounce of the "good" paint.

Spraying over the Model Master should give you the same effect.

 

You will notice that with any paint there can be rather large variations when compared to photos on line.

Even photos of different cars on the net will often show quite a bit of variation.

 

I am currently working on a '67 Ford Galaxie in "Lime Gold" and the photos I see on line are very little help when it comes to finding the exact correct color.

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

[Snake45]

10 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

You will notice that with any paint there can be rather large variations when compared to photos on line.

Even photos of different cars on the net will often show quite a bit of variation.

I am currently working on a '67 Ford Galaxie in "Lime Gold" and the photos I see on line are very little help when it comes to finding the exact correct color.

Steve

Ain't that the truth! Google-image any car color you cant think of and you will see MANY variations of the color. About the best you can do is get a strong mental impression of what the color should look like, and work for that. 

For example, I've been trying to decide if '74 Pontiac Buccaneer Red is closer to Testor #3/Model Master Guards Red, or MM Chevy Engine Red (a bright red-orange). Any opinions from anyone here who has real-world 3D experience with a real car painted that color? 

[bluenote]

11 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Thanks bluenote.

As a general rule, at least with MCW paints, they will tend to darken slightly after a couple of coats.

The colors can be a little on the transparent side.

One trick that I like to do is to shoot a color base with a can of Duplicolor paint that is close in color to my finish color before spraying the MCW paint.

This not only will give you a good impervious base, but it will also save on the MCW paint.

Most times I can get buy with 2 or 3 coats of MCW this way & save myself a half of an ounce of the "good" paint.

Spraying over the Model Master should give you the same effect.

 

You will notice that with any paint there can be rather large variations when compared to photos on line.

Even photos of different cars on the net will often show quite a bit of variation.

 

I am currently working on a '67 Ford Galaxie in "Lime Gold" and the photos I see on line are very little help when it comes to finding the exact correct color.

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

Thanks Steve, great advice!

I'm going to put on a couple of more coats next week and see how the colour looks after that.