Any tips for metallics?

[Don Wheeler]

I'm building the Monogram 53 Chevy.  It was my wife's first car.  Her Dad bought it for her when she graduated from high school in "58.  (Yeah, we're old)  She loved that car.  Here is a photo of it.

She remembers it as being metallic.  I'm not sure it really was, but I want it to look right to her.  I'm considering airbrushing Duplicolor cordova brown.  I've never used a metallic before.  Does it polish like regular colors?  Does it have to be clear coated?  Are there any tricks I should know?  Would you recommend a different paint?  Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Don

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

If you're going to airbrush anyway, I'd strongly suggest you get your paint from one of the reputable model-car aftermarket paint suppliers. They can mix your color with smaller metallic particles than you'll get in real-car paint, and will look MUCH more scale correct. (Steve Guthmiller...please chime in here)

In general, there are no hard and fast rules for metallics. Some cover better than others. Some may require 5 or more coats to get an even color and full hiding.

Some CAN be polished with no adverse effects, while some REQUIRE a clear-coat prior to color-sanding and polishing to avoid blotchiness as the metallic particles get uncovered irregularly during the sanding-polishing process. You won't know until you polish it...unless you specifically buy a "basecoat" which absolutely DOES require clear.

If you try to polish metallic paint on a model and you DO get blotches, no real problem. Just lightly scuff the whole thing, shoot a couple more color coats, let it flash, and clear it.

If you DO see defects on the metallic paint, like orange-peel or graininess, the clear will only accentuate the problems and seal them in. Metallic that's going to get cleared needs to be as close to perfect as you can get it. So...if you see peel or graininess in your last coat, sand it flat with 800 wet (or finer) and shoot another perfect color coat before you clear. This may take some experimentation and practice.

With some metallics, higher air pressure will make the flakes stand up more, producing a brighter appearance. 

Best advice is to arm yourself with extra material and experiment to determine the best process for the color and paint you use.

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[Snake45]

Your color seems to be Saddle Brown Poly (metallic), a carryover color from 1952:

http://autocolorlibrary.com/aclchip.aspx?image=1952-Chevrolet-pg01.jpg

Ace above gave you great advice. Contact one of the model paint vendors such as Model Car World and they should be able to supply you with it. 

Model Master used to have a metallic brown in their line that's pretty close, but I believe it's been dropped. 

[MrObsessive]

Whether you're airbrushing or using a can, it's a good idea to swill the can or jar while you're painting every so often to keep the metallic particles suspended. If this isn't done, when you start to paint all of sudden you'll get a 'rush' of metallic flakes which can be a problem.

[StevenGuthmiller]

I think Bill covered it pretty well.

I prefer to use one of those after market paint suppliers, namely MCW for the reason that Bill stated.

The metallics are much more in scale than most rattle can paints.

If you want a match that is as close as possible to the correct color, I would suggest going to the MCW (Model Car World) website and ordering from there.

I did check and they do carry correct 1952-1954 "Saddle Brown Metallic".

 

 

Steve

[Don Wheeler]

Thank you for the tips.  I wasn't familiar with MCW.  I found the Saddle Brown Metallic on their site.  The price is good, but it doesn't say how much you get.  I have a hunch I'm going to need a lot before I get the knack of it.  Is it fussy about brand of primer, or can I use Home Depot stuff.  And, can I thin it with lacquer thinner, or do I even need to?

Don

[StevenGuthmiller]

9 hours ago, Don Wheeler said:

Thank you for the tips.  I wasn't familiar with MCW.  I found the Saddle Brown Metallic on their site.  The price is good, but it doesn't say how much you get.  I have a hunch I'm going to need a lot before I get the knack of it.  Is it fussy about brand of primer, or can I use Home Depot stuff.  And, can I thin it with lacquer thinner, or do I even need to?

Don

It comes in one ounce jars.

Enough to do at least one 1/25th scale model.

But, if you think that you need more, order 2.

It is pre-thinned and ready to use straight from the jar, but it can be thinned with regular lacquer thinner if necessary.

use a good automotive primer.

It is an automotive lacquer and is a hot paint, no different than Duplicolor.

 

 

Steve

[Don Wheeler]

Thanks for the responses.  I appreciate it.  I think I better order two bottles.

Don

[DiscoRover007]

You need to clear coat any metallic you use. That way you can polish it.  As others have said you can see if you can get that paint matched in scale from a reputable hobby paint dealer. You could also try base coating it in a brown color and the mist coating a metallic lightly over it.

[Ace-Garageguy]

13 minutes ago, DiscoRover007 said:

You need to clear coat any metallic you use. That way you can polish it...

Sorry. Not true. SOME metallics will polish to a high gloss just fine with no clear, and no blotching, and you won't know which ones work until you try.

And back in the lacquer days on real cars, we routinely polished metallic lacquers with no need to clear them first.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[MrObsessive]

To echo what Bill said, indeed not all metallics need a clear coat. When I originally needed paint to do my Daytona, I never knew that the Hemi Orange was actually a metallic. All those years I thought it was a solid color and not knowing about the possible pitfalls of rubbing out metallics back then, I did rub and polish it out with no issues.

Now mind you the metallic effect is very subtle, but it's a metallic paint just the same. I also agree that one wouldn't know what works till you try it. As always...........test, test, test your paint!  

[DiscoRover007]

2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Sorry. Not true. SOME metallics will polish to a high gloss just fine with no clear, and no blotching, and you won't know which ones work until you try.

And back in the lacquer days on real cars, we routinely polished metallic lacquers with no need to clear them first.

Sure but all due respect that's not something I would chance. If I had a great metallic paint job. I'm not going to risk lifting the metallic particles and getting an uneven/faded out finish. The safe thing is to clear coat it. Won't hurt anything.  But it would be wise to test that theory on a spoon before trying it on a paint job.

[StevenGuthmiller]

Just now, DiscoRover007 said:

Sure but all due respect that's not something I would chance. If I had a great metallic paint job. I'm not going to risk lifting the metallic particles and getting an uneven/faded out finish. The safe thing is to clear coat it. Won't hurt anything.  But it would be wise to test that theory on a spoon before trying it on a paint job.

I suppose that there are instances where it might work to polish metallic paint, but I'm with you on this one James.

It's not really worth messing around with.

Just clear coat and be done with it.

 

 

Steve

[Ace-Garageguy]

41 minutes ago, DiscoRover007 said:

Sure but all due respect that's not something I would chance. If I had a great metallic paint job. I'm not going to risk lifting the metallic particles and getting an uneven/faded out finish. The safe thing is to clear coat it. Won't hurt anything.  But it would be wise to test that theory on a spoon before trying it on a paint job.

Well, I've been strongly advising people for years to TEST BEFORE COMMITTING TO USE ON A MODEL ANY PRODUCT, COMBINATION OF PRODUCTS, OR PROCEDURE on something else...and the "spoons" aren't necessarily the best way to do this, though it's repeated endlessly.

The spoon test will get you a decent idea of color density and coverage for a given number of coats, nothing more.

And anyone who doesn't TEST THOROUGHLY BEFORE DOING A MODEL and screws it up, gets exactly what he deserves. In the words of Mr. Obsessive, "As always...........test, test, test your paint!"    

Edited January 22, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[aurfalien]

In terms of metallic flakes being a bit too large with certain brands and colors, can one use a thinner to reduce there size?

I ask this as Gaianotes makes a metallic thinner (T-09) for the same thing.

Edited January 22, 2019 by aurfalien

[bluenote]

1 hour ago, aurfalien said:

In terms of metallic flakes being a bit too large with certain brands and colors, can one use a thinner to reduce there size?

I ask this as Gaianotes makes a metallic thinner (T-09) for the same thing.

I have seen someone mention before that applying a dull coat over the colour coat can reduce the appearance of large flakes.  Then, you would apply your glossy clear.  I've never tried it myself though.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, aurfalien said:

In terms of metallic flakes being a bit too large with certain brands and colors, can one use a thinner to reduce there size?

Nope. Flakes is flakes.

[Tommy124]

Interesting discussion... And then there's the other way round... creating metallic color based on a solid one. I heard this stuff is good for doing so. Haven't tried it out yet though. https://www.creativ-discount.de/Schmincke-AERO-Metallic-Medium-28-ml?ref=google-shopping&subref=CSC50608023&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvYba_dSB4AIVSdiyCh3CagWDEAQYASABEgKlQfD_BwE

[Ace-Garageguy]

22 minutes ago, Tommy124 said:

... And then there's the other way round... creating metallic color based on a solid one. I heard this stuff is good for doing so...

No reason it wouldn't work. That is, after all, how metallic paints are made and mixed to start with. In the real-car paint mixing systems, you start with an appropriately colored base color, and add metallics, other pigments, and clear, by weight (to a formula) to get a specific color.

Pearl-Ex powders (mixed into paint or clear) available at craft stores, are another way to achieve custom pearls and metallic colors.

 

Edited January 22, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[Tommy124]

Sure. I actually believe it works with blending small amounts of regular metallic MODEL color (silver, for instance) and high amounts of the solid color just aswell. I guess two things are vital: making sure that the metallic flakes are "model-size" and not overdoing the overall share of it in the mix. 

Edited January 22, 2019 by Tommy124

[Ace-Garageguy]

8 minutes ago, Tommy124 said:

Sure. I actually believe it works with blending small amounts of regular metallic MODEL color (silver, for instance) and high amounts of the solid color just aswell. I guess two things are vital: making sure that the metallic flakes are "model-size" and not overdoing the overall share of it in the mix. 

Yup...and carefully recording the amounts of materials you use, so you can hit the color again, and doing "sprayouts" BEFORE putting anything on a model (which we do on EVERY body repair in the reputable real-car shops as well) to check the color.

Once again, experimentation and testing...careful experimentation and testing...is key to getting consistent high quality results.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[MrObsessive]

1 hour ago, Tommy124 said:

Interesting discussion... And then there's the other way round... creating metallic color based on a solid one. I heard this stuff is good for doing so. Haven't tried it out yet though.

If you remember my '74 Corvette resto here, I had to do just that. My local paint jobber mixed a solid green as opposed to a metallic and I mixed in the gold flake to get the shade I wanted. After the paint was dry, I then put in some green dye in the clear to give the paint some depth, and to enhance the metallic effect somewhat.

The flakes for what I needed are in 'scale' even though the digicam highlights them a bit more than perhaps it should. Such is the case with digicams.