Mike Dobrzelecki Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) In my previous post getting started on this project, I thought it would be a quick couple of days of research, get the kits, some after-market and plan the build - WRONG! As I stated, I want to build my brother, Dan's, street-racing/Raceway Park-racing 56 Chevy 2-Door 210 Wagon. So, I called my brother, who is now 71 years old. That's when he took me to "Dan's 56 Chevy School For Advanced Learning". He has an extremely clear memory of almost 100% of the details of his multi-year build of his 1:1 scale street racer, and any model build of is going to get way-complicated. I need some more help from the experts on this forum. Here goes my extensive list: What I have: Resin 1956 Chevy Sedan Delivery Wagon kit body & some interior Revell 1956 Nomad 55-56 Chevrolet Bel Air 210 Nomad Gauges for Revell kit Model Car Garage MCG-2235 '56 Chevy Del Ray PE Detail Set for Revell kit What I have coming: Revell 56 Chevy Del Ray What I need help and suggestions with: ENGINE Need a Chevy 396 Big Block engine. Notes: My brother's engine came out of a 69 Camaro. He stated that although the engine was called a 396 it was actually "rated" as a 402. As I understand it, the outer dimensions for the various sizes of Chevy Big Blocks are the same, though some outer details differ. In surfing the internet I came up with other builds using 396 motors, and they included excerpts from instruction sheets (see attached), but it was not clear from the posts what kits they came in. -What are some recommendations for donors from kits or after-market resin engines for a Chevy Big Block 396? Please note next 4 items, too. He modified the engine mounts by adding a 3rd set, which he describes as a 2-2-1 configuration. he said the extra mount was 'in the back'. He equipped the motor with a Holly Dual Feed 780 carburetor - I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. He mounted Hooker Headers - I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. He mounted a dual (two?) air cleaners under a chrome pan - I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. He installed a Hurst 4-speed M31 Super Shifter - I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. He installed a Lakewood(?) "Scatter Shield" - basically a steel bell housing vs the aluminum one for the tranny. I assume that these looked exactly alike - just a different metal - correct? He swapped out the generator for an alternator -If it does not come with the donor motor, I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. He installed a larger water pump 6 cylinder version for 8 cylinder.-If it does not come with the donor Chevy kits/ donor motor, I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. He kept the dash instruments the same, but mounted ones for racing, namely oil/water and tach below the dash - Lots of choices here but I need suggestions for the best after-market for this. He swapped out the stock steering wheel for a 3 spoke chrome unit -Lots of choices here but I need suggestions for the best after-market for this REAR DIFFERENTIAL He stated that this posi-traction unit came out of a 57 Pontiac - I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. Sway Bar added - I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. TIRES AND WHEELS He mounted 14' up front and 15" tires in the back, all with Cragar SS mags, Rear Tires had 9 1/2' thread-Lots of choices here, but I need suggestions for the best kit or after-market for these. PAINT Body was painted "Rally Green", with just a hint of metal flake. Roof was painted a rich gold with lot's of metal flake - I need recommendations for model car paint for these colors. Thanks in advance for your help. Edited January 28, 2019 by Mike Dobrzelecki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 My advice would be to get your body sorted out, prepped and ready for paint (ideally, painted), and THEN worry about all the little details you've asked about. Why waste time and money rounding up a couple hundred bucks worth of donor kits and/or aftermarket before you get that far? Get the body done and then both you and we will know that you are serious about finishing the project. Just telling you this because I--like many others here--have BTDT. BTW, Testor Mystic Emerald would be a good match for "69 Chevy Rally green "with a hint of metalflake." They also have a couple different metalflake golds in their line. All are available at Hobby Lobby--go check 'em out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mike Dobrzelecki said: What I need help and suggestions with: What are some recommendations for donors from kits or after-market resin engines for a Chevy Big Block 396? Please note next 4 items, too. He modified the engine mounts by adding a 3rd set, which he describes as a 2-2-1 configuration. he said the extra mount was 'in the back'. He equipped the motor with a Holly Dual Feed 780 carburetor - I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. He mounted Hooker Headers - I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. He mounted a dual (two?) air cleaners under a chrome pan - I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. He installed a Hurst 4-speed M31 Super Shifter - I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. He installed a Lakewood(?) "Scatter Shield" - basically a steel bell housing vs the aluminum one for the tranny. I assume that these looked exactly alike - just a different metal - correct? He swapped out the generator for an alternator -If it does not come with the donor motor, I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. He installed a larger water pump 6 cylinder version for 8 cylinder.-If it does not come with the donor Chevy kits/ donor motor, I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. He kept the dash instruments the same, but mounted ones for racing, namely oil/water and tach below the dash - Lots of choices here but I need suggestions for the best after-market for this. He swapped out the stock steering wheel for a 3 spoke chrome unit -Lots of choices here but I need suggestions for the best after-market for this REAR DIFFERENTIAL He stated that this posi-traction unit came out of a 57 Pontiac - I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. Sway Bar added - I need suggestions for donor kits and after-market for this. TIRES AND WHEELS He mounted 14' up front and 15" tires in the back, all with Cragar SS mags, Rear Tires had 9 1/2' thread-Lots of choices here, but I need suggestions for the best kit or after-market for these. Chevy BBC donors? 1/25 Revell '69 Yenko Camaro, Revell '66 Chevelle Wagon, Revell '67 Cheveelle SS 396-- all used a very similar block heads, etc but the '69 Yenko Cmaro includes nice tube style headers which would probably pass for Hooker brand headers. Tri-Five Chevies equipped with V8s used a front engine mount, under the timing cover, which was changed later to two side engine mounts. It's possible you brother's engine used a mid-engine plate (basically a plate between the engine block and scattershield), so might be worth asking him. Holley carb-- hard to see it once the air cleaner is in place, so the Revell kit piece would probably be fine if you are not displaying the finished model with the air cleaner off. If you're a stickler for details, other will suggest one to use. If you're going to mount an actual shifter and linkage to the model, seek out the Model Car Garage Muncie trans and shifter, #MCG-2122 The scattershield might be a bit more challenging to find. I can only think of Buick, early Hemi, and SBC parts in kits. A scattershield is a bit more robust than a cast steel or almunim factory bellhousing, but they can look similar...or quite different. Vintage Ansen scattershield: Lakewood scattershield: Alternator and water pump can come from the '69 Yenko Camaro kit. Not sure how he used a six-cylinder pump on a BBC? The rearend can come from the AMT '62 Pontiac Catalina kit-- hands down the best 1/25 Pontiac rearend available, though you will need to remove the control arm brackets/tabs and set it up to work with leaf springs (assuming that was the rear suspension he used?). I used the same rearend on an AMT/Revell '55 Chevy: He mounted 14' up front and 15" tires in the back, all with Cragar SS mags, Rear Tires had 9 1/2' thread-Lots of choices here, but I need suggestions for the best kit or after-market for these. Are you sure about that? The picture you posted in the earlier topic shows American Racing Equipment style Torq Thrust wheels up front, not Cragar S/S wheels: Edited January 28, 2019 by Casey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeatMan Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Drag City Casting on FB casts the Pontiac rear end without the brackets, and for less than the full kit. I've bought from him and he's reliable and has good products. https://www.facebook.com/dragcitycasting/?fref=gs&dti=173972342685783&hc_location=group_dialog https://public.fotki.com/drasticplasticsmcc/member_dealer_directory/drag-city-casting-/parts/dsc08487.html VCG Resins has a drag bell housing that you might be able to use. It's under Drivetrain almost halfway down the page. He also has a bellhousing w/mounting plate that can be tweaked to add those extra mounts. http://vcgresins.com/main.html Sounds like an interesting project. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muncie Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) what Casey says filling in a few blanks --- Any of the old Monogram NASCAR GM stock car kits have a good Lakewood (like the red one in Casey' notes) style bellhousing and GM four speed - there may be some other parts that you can use. There were several ways to adapt a big-block to a tri-five Chev. The early kits used a Hurst saddle type engine mount at the front (which had two mounting points on the frame) and the standard rear engine mounts on the bellhousing. It takes an adapter kit to use these engine mounts with a Lakewood bellhousing. I'm not aware of any of these parts in any kit. Some installations added a crossmember at the rear of the transmission. A Camaro/Nova crossmember mounted on angle iron welded to the chassis was one way to add a rear transmission mount. Radiator notes - Stock V-8 radiators mounted aft of the core support, 6-cylinders had the radiator ahead of the core support. Big blocks require the 6-cylinder radiator location for fan clearance. I believe it's as simple as flipping the core support in the Revell kit. hope this helps Edited January 29, 2019 by Muncie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Mack Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) The 1969 396 was a 396. The 402-inch 396 didn't happen until the 1970 model year. A 1969 396 will have the alternator on the passenger side. The 2nd instruction sheet you pictured is from the AMT 1966 Impala Super Sport. The alternator is on the wrong side for 1969. A Lakewood scattershield will NOT have ribs like a cast bellhousing. Probably any Funny Car or Fuel Dragster kit will have a smooth, round scattershield that will pass for a Lakewood if painted red. A Hurst Super Shifter has a short chrome stick that stands straight up when in the neutral gate. The shifter mechanism was mounted high on the tailhousing to allow for straight, reinforced shift rods. Most installs used a Hurst Super Boot. 'Sway bar' on a drag car? Did he mean Traction Bars? A popular choice in the period was Lakewood again. Lakewood traction bars were safety yellow. Their scattershields were darker red. Edited January 29, 2019 by Daddy Mack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dobrzelecki Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 To Snake, Casey, MeatMan, Muncie & Daddy Mack, Thanks everybody for the great info. I'll be checking out the products suggested on-line, but check with my brother again by showing him photos to make sure I'm getting the right stuff. Having suggestions like those offered by you guys is going to facilitate the next round of questions and answers with my brother. Other comments: Get Body ready first.... Snake, My process for planning a build is to get the all parts and supplies needed first before I commence. I learned from previous experience, It's the best, if not the only way, to be sure that everything fits, while the body is raw resin/plastic, plus it negates the dreaded abrupt halt in a build, which sometimes saps my enthusiasm. In any event,thanks for your suggestions on the possible paint choice. Tires & Wheels The photos show the car before all the major work was done, so the tires could have been changed. Photos of my brother's finished car I'm awaiting other photos from my brother to get the details correct. I have seen these photos before, and even have some somewhere in my vast archives, so I know that there's at least one of the motor and engine compartment, which should answer a lot of questions on the radiator, air cleaner, alternator side, revised location of various equipment in the engine compartment, final wheels & tires, flame design, etc. NNL East I'll be attending the show on April 27 in Joisy. Any responders to my posts coming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayma367 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Mike... While I responded to your first post regarding the resin sedan delivery body; I'll answer the question posed above here: hell YES I'll be at the NNL East on the 27th. I haven't missed a year since 1990 and I'm certainly not going to start now. I split me time between the resin vendors and the Emergency Vehicle modelers in the back row. Hope to see you there! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dobrzelecki Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 Great! Don't miss NJIPMS's show - Mosquitocon on April 6th - same venue. The NNL East organizers apparently loved our venue, so they shifted over the the Parsippany PAL to the Wayne PAL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 On 1/30/2019 at 9:38 AM, Mike Dobrzelecki said: Snake, My process for planning a build is to get the all parts and supplies needed first before I commence. I learned from previous experience, It's the best, if not the only way, to be sure that everything fits, while the body is raw resin/plastic, plus it negates the dreaded abrupt halt in a build, which sometimes saps my enthusiasm. I'm very familiar with the mindset, especially in Model Airplane World. I have several friends who will buy the newest "Wonderkit," and then EVERY piece of resin available for it, and EVERY bit of PE and three or four decal sheets and maybe a couple of books, and just about the time they get everything together, some NEW Wonderkit hits the market, they lose interest in the current project, and the cycle begins again. I've bought several such "projects" with all sprues still sealed in bags and complete with resin, PE, and decals for a few bucks less than the kit alone originally cost. Ya gotta love those Shiny Squirrels! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottH454 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I could help with the engine in resin. It has plenty of extra detail that you may not need so if you did want one you can tell my what you do or don't. I have a video that will show you what I offer. https://youtu.be/WJ4SejxpEx4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dobrzelecki Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 ScottH454, I was not able to use the link for some reason. Is Action Modeler what you're referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottH454 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Yeah, search for that channel an look for a video "1/25 Resin BB Chevy “427” Engine Kit". I will work on getting a kit together this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgefever Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) Look for a Revell '69 Camaro, Yenko or Baldwin-Motion. It has one of the better 1/25 renditions of a big block and it has the carb you need - about the best you'll find in a kit. IIRC, it also has headers, but those might not fit a '56. The current Baldwin-Motion reissue comes with a chrome pan type air cleaner instead of the B-M "fly-eye", but that's what you want in this case, just build it up to look like it has stacked filter elements. The trans is a four speed Muncie - presumably your brother meant M21, not M31 - but it has a stock bellhousing. Edited February 1, 2019 by dodgefever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dobrzelecki Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) Snake, Yeah, that's a common problem that cuts across modeling genres, and I certainly have a couple of those packages sitting on a shelf, since I am primarily a military modeler, whose hobby somehow got me into building museum exhibits for outfits like the Intrepid Sea-Air-Space Museum in New York City from 1981-2004, The Museum of Polish Military Heritage in Manhattan 2002 -Current, and several other institutions, Armed Forces Bases, Veterans Groups, etc. I love this work, and it's pretty gratifying for me to pay tribute to our vets and those of our Allies. I donate my time, gratis, to the museums. Just seeing the vets light-up because someone cares is payment enough. My dad and most of my uncles served in WWII. They provided great male role models for me growing up in the 1960s. I'm less than 2 years away from retiring, so I hope to be able to get more time to devote to building models, shortly, including building car models again. My brother, Dan, a USAF vet and Purple Heart Recipient, who is also a life-long modeler, is in ill health these days. Engaging his help on this 56 Wagon Project is giving him a spiritual boost, so I aim to keep pursuing it. He's getting a real kick out of remembering everything about his hot rod build, and helping to figure out the pieces and parts. I lost my other brother, Ron, a year and a half ago, so I want to cherish and enjoy the time I have left with Dan. I posted an intro on this forum, if you're interested. Again, thanks for your help. Regards, Mike Photo: Dobrzelecki Brothers - Ron, Mike & Dan at Dan's retirement October 2013 Edited February 1, 2019 by Mike Dobrzelecki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stitchdup Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 I'm sure now you've said about the connection you and your brother have with this car, that the fine people on this site will be looking through their scrap boxes to help you. Unfortunatelly I have nothing you need but there's a lot of really good folk on here. They've helped me out and I am sure they will help you out too. I wish you all the best for this project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) Factory stock 55-57 Chevys have four engine mounts, two at the front beside the crank pulley and two at the rear at the bell housing and the transmission hangs free with no support at all, if changed to side mounts most also take off the mounts at the bellhousing and replace them with a cross member and transmission mount at the rear of the transmission as it is on later cars. Your brother might have put in a cross member and rear transmission mount...but if he had changed to a big block he must have changed out the stock engine mounts as they have side mounts only and nothing at the bellhousing. Engine: as all Chevy big block engines basically looks the same you can use any 396-427-454 big block and the suggested sources are good, and as said earlier, put the radiator in front of the core support otheriwse the engine woun't fit as a big block is longer than a small block. Carburetor: if the carburetor is visible and you want the best there is only one option...Fireball Modelworks...they have the best carburetors around and in several styles, you said he used a Holley 780 and it's a 4150 series carb most likely a double pumper with mechanical secondary. But if you have it under an air cleaner it doesn't matter much as the carb in that case isn't that visible and a kit part would most likely work fine. Lakewood Scatter Shield: you allready have suggestions for that, otherwise the old Monogram 66 Chevelles has one. Headders: use a set that fits or make your own from solder, it doesn't matter wich one as most of the brands looks similar. Rear axle: 1957-64 Oldsmobile and Pontiac used the same rear axle and it was a popular upgrade on Tri-Five Chevys as it's a lot stronger than the stock Chevy unit, the 57 Pontiac rear end fits without modifications as the 57 Pontiac uses leaf springs like the Chevys, later Pontiacs and most of the Oldsmobiles had coil springs so you had to change to leaf spring brackets on the axle for it to work. You already have suggestions for this. Edited February 3, 2019 by Force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muncie Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) Here's more on the engine mounts. Håkan and I have exchanged a couple of messages. Let's break installing a big-block down to two era's - before side-mount engine conversion kits and after. Side mount installations are better but kits for a 1955-56-57 Chevy didn't become common until the eighties. Side engine mounts could be done before then, but it took some fabrication and welding because bolt-in kits were not available. So this is the way we did it 50 years ago. Hope this helps... Back in the '60's and 70's, there were Hurst engine conversion kits. This is the front engine mount kit for a big block in the tri-five Chevy. Bolts to the front of the block. https://www.hotrod.com/articles/vintage-tech-hurst-performance-swaps-new-396-v8/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- another photo from the same source - bellhousing and rear engine mounts - this looks like an aftermarket cast scattershield from the internet forum www.tri-five.com --- Stock rear engine mounts with big block Chevy and Lakewood Bellhousing. Notice how the headers have to drop below the bellhousing engine mounts. Lakewood adapter kit for stock engine mounts on a Lakewood bellhousing - if you think the countersunk holes weaken the bracket, you're right, mine bent with just a small block. The aluminum plate on the back of the bellhousing is an adapter to install a T-56 6-speed transmission - from the tri-five.com forum. Notice he also added a transmission crossmember in the above picture. Edited February 7, 2019 by Muncie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dobrzelecki Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 To Muncie, Håkan and everybody helping with this research project - again , a BIG THANK YOU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 On 1/28/2019 at 1:22 PM, Mike Dobrzelecki said: In my previous post getting started on this project, I thought it would be a quick couple of days of research, get the kits, some after-market and plan the build - WRONG! As I stated, I want to build my brother, Dan's, street-racing/Raceway Park-racing 56 Chevy 2-Door 210 Wagon. So, I called my brother, who is now 71 years old. That's when he took me to "Dan's 56 Chevy School For Advanced Learning". He has an extremely clear memory of almost 100% of the details of his multi-year build of his 1:1 scale street racer, and any model build of is going to get way-complicated. Forgive me if this seems be argumentative but why does it have to get complicated? Just because he remembers every nut and bolt, doesn't mean he's going to expect that from your gift to him. Most folks are happy if the model looks right from the shelf. How often is he going to pick it up and examine every detail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dobrzelecki Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 Jantrix, Some people enjoy the journey, others not so much, they just wan to get there. To each his own. Me? I build both complicated models and others right out of the box. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 34 minutes ago, Mike Dobrzelecki said: Jantrix, Some people enjoy the journey, others not so much, they just wan to get there. To each his own. Me? I build both complicated models and others right out of the box. Mike Okay, see, that I understand. And I build similarly. I mistakenly gleaned from your original post that it was your brother driving the inclusion of all the added detail. Sorry about that. Anyway, I look forward to seeing your project come together. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.