Ferrari 275P/360M Restorod

[89AKurt]

1 hour ago, Dann Tier said:

This is definitely one of THE BEST custom jobs I've EVER seen!!!!…..are there any plans to widen the front fenders too?

Thanks man!  No, believe it or not, trying to minimize the amount of customization.  I did consider it, and making the lower sides go vertical with perhaps a skirt, but nixed it.  Also thought about a front splitter.  Of course it needs a giant razor wing cluttering up the rear..... maybe not. 

[Dann Tier]

1 hour ago, 89AKurt said:

Thanks man!  No, believe it or not, trying to minimize the amount of customization.  I did consider it, and making the lower sides go vertical with perhaps a skirt, but nixed it.  Also thought about a front splitter.  Of course it needs a giant razor wing cluttering up the rear..... maybe not. 

Could you show a top view of the body?.....i'm glad you're joking about the wing!...lol -it would ruin it!!!

[89AKurt]

On 4/25/2019 at 2:26 PM, Dann Tier said:

Could you show a top view of the body?.....i'm glad you're joking about the wing!...lol -it would ruin it!!!

Oh I guess so......  hey, knowing this project in a joke to begin with...... 

Worked until 1:00 AM, adding engine bay stuff.  I chopped up the Monogram chassis to make the bulkhead and radiator supports.  I used one of my resin fuel fillers.

Some of the little parts await their fate.  I am planning to vacuum-form a windshield, even though the kit came with one.  Will do the headlight covers at that time.

Here you go Dann:

Did a couple of parts this morning, before meeting a client.  Other rear wheel well cover, and stuck on the Mondial mirrors.

I have model club meeting today, so another pause in construction.  *Have to* show off the medals I got at Desert Scale Classic.

[Dann Tier]

This is going together well!!!, The top view is good, but i'm a bit concerned about the side view. To me, the rear fenders are a tad-bit overwhelming to the front....especially right behind the front wheels....rocker area. If it were me, I would flare out that area a little bit, to help balance the design.....it doesn't need to be that much. just my thoughts, bud.  ….you should run it by Ace though....he knows EVERYTHING.....LOL!!!

[89AKurt]

I see your point, but Coke bottle was a theme of designers at one time.  What's bugging me now, I've been saying it's a Mondial, nobody caught me that it's a Modena.  Back from the model club meeting, I should go on a mountain bike ride it's so nice now.

[89AKurt]

Soon as I returned from the model club meeting, me being the only car modeler in attendance, again, jumped back into building.

Got the radiators done.  Using up the pieces of both kits.  I've had the fans in the parts box for decades, came close to using a few times, this time for good!  The oil cooler has been modified since taking the pictures, after test fitting.

Modified leading edge of chassis pan for air flow.  Also fabricated air ducts for the brakes.

Refined the light area, opened brake duct intakes.  I have also revised the Dumbo mirrors.  LOL

Next subassembly to fabricate is the engine bay framework, basically for the hood hinge.  Then I can start on the engine, namely exhaust tips.

[afx]

Some great slice & dice going on here Kurt.

[Belugawrx]

Really nice mod works going on Kurt.

[89AKurt]

13 hours ago, afx said:

Some great slice & dice going on here Kurt.

Thanks.  I need to call it quits, or I'll never finish. 

12 hours ago, Belugawrx said:

Really nice mod works going on Kurt.

Thank you.

Since it's difficult to see that I'm revising some things, not taking so many pictures (yea right).  The engine fuel tank part is really tight, and I have to slip in as the body gets spread over the chassis, wish I could glue in but the body can't spread any more.  Today I wanted to hinge the engine bonnet.  Always need to think how all this will go together after paint, I have glued in a plastic strip under the grills on the bonnet, which the hinge mounts to.  Used the photo-etch bender to fabricate aluminum plate, finished unit being held in the tweezers, other unit in the bender.

The bonnet needed to move back in order to clear the exhaust tips, and be able to open.  I have what is basically hypodermic needles, and matching size guitar wire.  I used two different pliers to bend the hinge plate.

When I bent the tab for the wire, doubled up and superglued.  Drilled using the wood block for support.  First hinge has been slipped on, for now I crimp with the pliers, will glue during final assembly.  I use the steel square to help make sharp bends.

Thought I would add hood pins, the real car uses leather straps at this location, this adds a street machine detail.

Took some file work so the wire clears the hinge plate, and I don't need a prop stick!  The radiators have been a fitment issue.  I have also added a locator plate to the hood, at the wheel opening.

I had mounted the tubing in plastic blocks, in case adjustment was needed, used tube cement. 

That was fun!

[89AKurt]

Engine time.  The Revell lacks many lower details that the Tamiya kit has (I saw pictures while researching the engine), funny they detailed the bottom of the pan so well.  I filled the cat and muffler voids, and added to the engine block.  Used a file to continue the cat corrugations around the bottom.  I decided to make the muffler look like an aftermarket unit, especially since the exhaust tips will be different.

I have stainless steel tubing that is about the same size as the kit tips.  Used up a #11 blade to ream out the inside, cut with a Dremel cutoff disk, and turned on a toothpick to finish the other end.  Screwed up one tip by the disk spiraling around the tube, takes vice grip hands!

Yea, horrid alignment, need to adjust everything later.  One reason I wanted to do only two tips, but you gotta have four to be cool, look at a Skyline, Maxima, Cadillac, etc. (ever notice how many American cars have fake tips, one has soot, the other you can see though).  Can hardly wait to make the grill mesh with and edge around the tips.

[Tommy124]

On 25.4.2019 at 2:03 AM, Italianhorses said:

Haha, purist in me is screaming, but that is a very cool project.

Nicely said. A lot of good SB work to be seen in this WIP thread, no doubt about that! 

[Dann Tier]

FANTASTIC SB, bud!!!!

[89AKurt]

21 hours ago, Dann Tier said:

FANTASTIC SB, bud!!!!

Hey, you inspired me during your Pagani build!

I'm wiped out tonight, just posting pictures, can add explanations later.  I need to start painting tomorrow.

Right door "panel" next interior subject to make.  Barely tacked on the door jamb, glued the whole panel on.

Then I cut out the door, since the gap is so large, had room for error, pried out the door after cutting through.  I painted the scribed line so I could see where to place the jamb pieces.

The headlights are from the parts box, their design is odd, the bulb sticks out so much, the lenses have holes, will carefully cut down for the new lenses.  Friction fit within the holes that have been filed to shape.  Also fabricated a mount for the prancing horse in the grill, cut out of photo-etch fret.

Door is done.  Marked the headlights so they go in perfect again.  I've been building up inside the body with superglue and baking soda, I'm impressed how strong this glue is.

Detailing the engine, Hollywood style.  The accessories are parts box carburetors, cut off one side enough so they mount on the block.  Used the Waldon punch to make pulleys.

The console needed just a little trimming at the rear, add to use the off-cut bumper part somewhere, looks like a speaker grill, even though there is no radio (plug in the smartphone).   Another parts box find added to the fuel tank.

I made these spring/shocks decades ago, finally found a home.  Made mounts from body off-cut (some of the Modena body is really thick), hot-wire cut out, filed and sanded to shape.

Accessory belt is simply cut styrene sheet, cut ends at an angle.  Had to modify the air cleaner box a little.

[sorry for the sloppiness, don't know what's going on with links I never added]

Edited April 30, 2019 by 89AKurt
added description

[Dann Tier]

AFX started this!!...he inspired me, I inspired you....whose next??….this is GREAT!!!!!

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 4/27/2019 at 12:18 PM, Dann Tier said:

...you should run it by Ace though....he knows EVERYTHING...

Oh, you're too kind. I know a helluva lot, though far from everything.

But now that you've admitted my vast superiority (totally inappropriately on somebody else's build thread, by the way), I just gotta say to Kurt...

I'm still following, liking everything you've got going, and wish you well the rest of the way out. This thing is really cool.

[89AKurt]

7 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Oh, you're too kind. I know a helluva lot, though far from everything.

But now that you've admitted my vast superiority (totally inappropriately on somebody else's build thread, by the way), I just gotta say to Kurt...

I'm still following, liking everything you've got going, and wish you well the rest of the way out. This thing is really cool.

Hey, I would say the collective brainpower and skill on this forum is an awesome inspiration, you are a little more prominent than most members.  And thank you, appreciate you leaving a compliment.  You think I should put any Forged Carbon® on this?  

Unlike the VW Beetle, where I had to be faithful and accurate while adding detail, I've been detailing this project just for the sake of making it look realistic.  The only underside detail the Monogram had, is around the engine, so I cut off an access plate and one of the funny renditions for shocks, to make something like the shifter control on the transmission.

Pried off the accessory belt unit, I'm sure someone can recognize the carbs.  I'm tempted to make spark plug coil units, but I want to finish this!

I'm using Detail Master photo-etch brake disks, but only one side (not with the fin center and other disk).  Had to Dremel the caliper to almost nothing.  I'm tempted to chuck the disk in the Dremel, and use sandpaper for a proper finish.

I made a few other tiny detail parts, and drilled out the small round lights below the headlights, which will get turned down clear sprue.
I finally have started painting!  ~whoo hoo!~  My biggest concern is the body, of course.  Testors white primer, thicker over the filler areas, which show up really bad after spraying paint.  Semi gloss black many parts.  Flat black on the chassis, radiator faces and inside the wheels.  Alclad polished aluminum on the steering wheel, and stainless steel on the radiator.  I messed up the first fuel filler, got another of my resin copies, sprayed flat black, the Alclad came out flat too, very interesting how important the black needs to be very smooth.

I'm so engrossed working on this non-stop, work can wait, shower once a week (ha ha), I'm thinking about several next steps when not building, but my eyes were having trouble focusing today.  It's kind of fun, having a deadline, knowing I will (think positive) finish.  I'm undecided on seat color, the original car had blue seats, the resin seat illustration is blue (and really nice units, no cleanup other the casting pins).  Playing with the idea of flat red paint, just to avoid the pitfalls and the extra careful work of a shiny concours quality finish, that alone would take a week, it would add to the blasphemy and sacrilege of this theme (grey primer really would ).

[afx]

18 hours ago, Dann Tier said:

AFX started this!!...he inspired me, I inspired you....whose next??….this is GREAT!!!!!

 

You can't blame your insane scratch building skill on me! 

 

[afx]

Looks good in primer Kurt.  Ferrari are running matte finish on the F1 cars this year, no reason you can't be cutting edge and do the same. Ferrari also claim there is a performance benefit.

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-matte-paint-performance-benefit/4338383/

Edited May 1, 2019 by afx

[r60man]

Red Bull started the Matte finish craze in F1. I can see it though, aerodynamics is so important in F1 that any tiny advantage helps.

[89AKurt]

4 hours ago, afx said:

Looks good in primer Kurt.  Ferrari are running matte finish on the F1 cars this year, no reason you can't be cutting edge and do the same. Ferrari also claim there is a performance benefit.

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-matte-paint-performance-benefit/4338383/

Thanks for posting this, I'm cutting edge and didn't know it! 
[...] minimises the chances of any drag from sponsor logos. [...]  Oh, so I better not use the aftermarket Ferrari logos that are thicker than the kit decals..... huh.  NOT!

Reminds me of when Mercedes didn't even paint their cars, the Silver Arrows kicked butt while naked.  Some exotic sports cars have unpainted carbon-fiber.  I was just thinking of a way to shorten build time, but all this justifies a matt finish.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Far as the matte finish goes, it's kinda interesting how old knowledge often gets rediscovered and is "cutting edge" again. A few decades back, wind tunnel testing revealed that a uniformly 400-grit finish on a laminar-flow aircraft wing would show a small but measurable reduction in drag under some conditions, by keeping the boundary layer of the flow attached just a little longer. Dull wings on competition sailplanes showed up afterwards, but I haven't noticed anybody doing it lately.  https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/boundlay.html   

Though they cite weight-saving, I wouldn't be surprised to find this effect has also been modeled in Ferrari's CFD simulation. It's extremely difficult to reliably and repeatedly reproduce aerodynamic results like these in the real world however, because a car is constantly accelerating, decelerating, changing direction, side-slipping, and is mostly in ground-effect anyway. All these dynamic changes affect airflow over any given point, changing constantly, and as any aerodynamic flat-finish or low-drag decal effect would be tiny, it's of dubious value other than as a psychological magic edge, and getting everybody else to waste their time copying it.  

As your reference article states, Mercedes started running naked cars because they stripped the paint off their alloy bodies to reduce weight at one point. Silver became their signature color as a result.

Just FYI: "unpainted" carbon fiber needs to be coated with a thick coat of UV-absorbing clear in the real world to protect the resin from guaranteed degradation from sunlight. Best to keep your bare-carbon car under wraps anyway.

And as far as "forged" carbon goes on this build, it depends on what you want to represent. "Forged" carbon requires expensive matched molds that can withstand 1200-1500 PSI molding force, and around 250F. There's no benefit to making tooling like this for a one-off car, as it would be prohibitively expensive (unless it was a cost-no-object build). "Forged" carbon shows a cost advantage on production parts because the highly-skilled labor needed to make traditional hand-laid carbon parts is eliminated.

Traditional woven-carbon layups are stronger anyway, and can be made in old-school open molds that only need to withstand a couple atmospheres of pressure during vacuum-bagging. If your build is supposed to represent a one-of-one custom, woven carbon would be the more rational choice.   

Edited May 1, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[Dann Tier]

9 hours ago, afx said:

You can't blame your insane scratch building skill on me! 

 

I sure can!!...LOL

 

[cobraman]

Lots of good work going on around here.

[89AKurt]

14 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

[...]  And as far as "forged" carbon goes on this build, it depends on what you want to represent. "Forged" carbon requires expensive matched molds that can withstand 1200-1500 PSI molding force, and around 250F. There's no benefit to making tooling like this for a one-off car, as it would be prohibitively expensive (unless it was a cost-no-object build). "Forged" carbon shows a cost advantage on production parts because the highly-skilled labor needed to make traditional hand-laid carbon parts is eliminated.

Traditional woven-carbon layups are stronger anyway, and can be made in old-school open molds that only need to withstand a couple atmospheres of pressure during vacuum-bagging. If your build is supposed to represent a one-of-one custom, woven carbon would be the more rational choice.   

I was just kidding!    I've seen plenty of one-off carbon fiber projects, so not out of the question.  At this time, I don't care to screw around with more decals, but then again....

7 hours ago, cobraman said:

Lots of good work going on around here.

Thank you.  One screw up, but I ain't perfect.

Wet sanding the body was the first task today.  In general, helped a bunch, but I would need a week to make it perfect.

Painted the body Testors Italian Red, then flat clear.  Seats blue, used brass screen to try a fabric weave, not as successful as the VW was.  Engine flat aluminum and steel, and red valve covers that I finished up by splattering to try and get a crinkle texture, note how I masked the aluminum center cover.

Unmasked!  Started with the decals, the Revell decals look really nice, but do not come off the paper very well, and break if you're not careful.  I ruined the shifter plate decal, also discovered Solv-a-Set attacks chrome.    I try to airbrush everything, but sometimes have to use the brush.

I'm going to start a new topic about this trick I developed.  Photo-etched brake disks are cool, but still not realistic enough for me.  Made an arbor to mount the disk, and used a cordless drill to turn using a nail sanding stick.  My Dremel has always annoyed me by being off-center, so it took some time to get centered.

Got more decals done.   Cut up the Modena instruments, and added some other ones.  Gloss clear over for a lens finish.  Got the engine done, added the Crazy Modeler emblems, MSC wire.  The steering wheel and wheels got the Hobby Design 3D emblems.  The radiators and oil cooler got Detail Master photo-etch.

More decals, not carbon-fiber, or Forged Carbon® (yes I have decals for that), but Micro-Mark HO scale rivets.  Those railroad modelers are freaking nuts!  Teresi turned me onto these, and he is really nuts for doing the Plymouth airplane engine pickup, he has the patience of a freaking saint.

Tomorrow, paint the interior aluminum, make the windshield, final assembly, hopefully seatbelts.  I'm freaking nuts! 

[afx]

I'm in the minority but personally I prefer a toned down sheen on the finish, your's looks great.