Salvaging Tamiya panel liner

[Monty]

Bought some black Tamiya panel liner a number of months ago, but didn't get around to trying it out until recently.  Upon opening it, I discovered it was a little chunky.  I assume this means air somehow got in there and it started to dry.  Didn't bother trying to use it until I heard from some of you with experience whether I could bring it back to normal with something like a little lacquer thinner, or if my Badger paint mixer would be enough.

  

[Bugatti Fan]

You could try some Tamiya thinners to match the paint and see if that works. If it remains lumpy best to discard and replace.

[Mike 1017]

This mixer works great. I just checked and it will fit into the bottle.

Cordless Mixer for Model Paints (micromark.com)

[espo]

Is the entire content dried out type chunky or just needs a lot of suturing chunky? I have had the pigment build up on the bottom if not used for any length of time. Usually, a few minutes of shaking will restore the desired consistency. Should the paint be like mud or worse consider a little Tamiya X-20A Thinner. 

[Monty]

6 hours ago, Mike 1017 said:

This mixer works great. I just checked and it will fit into the bottle.

Cordless Mixer for Model Paints (micromark.com)

True story - several years ago, I decided to buy a hobby paint mixer and figured something from Micro Mark would be a worthwhile purchase.  It worked OK for a couple weeks before it literally caught fire at my model table.  Been using the Badger unit ever since.  

[Monty]

5 hours ago, espo said:

Is the entire content dried out type chunky or just needs a lot of suturing chunky? I have had the pigment build up on the bottom if not used for any length of time. Usually, a few minutes of shaking will restore the desired consistency. Should the paint be like mud or worse consider a little Tamiya X-20A Thinner. 

It's more or less sludgy - some liquid with chunks in it.  If I understand correctly, this stuff is enamel, and I didn't know if this was a sign that it had turned bad or if mixing and thinning would reconstitute it.  

Regarding the Tamiya X-20 thinner, here's what someone posted the other day:

If I remember right I read someplace the alcohol in X-20a is some form of glycol alcohol. Denatured alcohol would indeed be closer than iso. And actually denatured alcohol works well in Tamiya acrylics. So does lacquer thinner. At the Tamiya site they list LT as the thinner to use if you want a harder finish ( look in the fine extended print there).

I'm thinking glycol alcohol won't work with enamel.  

Edited April 23, 2023 by Monty

[Bainford]

13 hours ago, Monty said:

 

I'm thinking glycol alcohol won't work with enamel.  

Correct. The panel liner is enamel, and X-20A won't work. Your original idea to use lacquer thinner would probably work best to reconstitute the panel liner, but I would think lacquer thinner would be too hot to use a wash. I would think mineral spirits would be your best bet, often marketed as brush cleaner at the hardware store. Though, by the time you bought some of that, you may as awell just get a new bottle of panel liner.

[Monty]

2 hours ago, Bainford said:

Correct. The panel liner is enamel, and X-20A won't work. Your original idea to use lacquer thinner would probably work best to reconstitute the panel liner, but I would think lacquer thinner would be too hot to use a wash. I would think mineral spirits would be your best bet, often marketed as brush cleaner at the hardware store. Though, by the time you bought some of that, you may as awell just get a new bottle of panel liner.

Note to self: Derrrrrrrrrrrr. 

Great points, sir.  Adding lacquer thinner to a wash would be beyond dumb, since most of my painting involves enamels,  And yes I should quit being cheap and just get another bottle.  

[Mike 1017]

15 hours ago, Monty said:

True story - several years ago, I decided to buy a hobby paint mixer and figured something from Micro Mark would be a worthwhile purchase.  It worked OK for a couple weeks before it literally caught fire at my model table.  Been using the Badger unit ever since.  

I have the Micro Mark one for a long time no problems. Could the mixer have Lithium batteries?

[showrods]

On 4/22/2023 at 4:31 PM, Monty said:

Bought some black Tamiya panel liner a number of months ago, but didn't get around to trying it out until recently.  Upon opening it, I discovered it was a little chunky.  I assume this means air somehow got in there and it started to dry.  Didn't bother trying to use it until I heard from some of you with experience whether I could bring it back to normal with something like a little lacquer thinner, or if my Badger paint mixer would be enough.

  

I've never heard of this with panel liner before. If you bought this locally, I'd be tempted to take it back there and ask for an exchange.

[Monty]

3 minutes ago, Mike 1017 said:

I have the Micro Mark one for a long time no problems. Could the mixer have Lithium batteries?

No, I would've been using either Duracell or Energizer regular batteries.  I don't think I own anything that takes lithium batteries.

[Monty]

Just now, showrods said:

I've never heard of this with panel liner before. If you bought this locally, I'd be tempted to take it back there and ask for an exchange.

Unfortunately I live in a hick town so almost all hobby purchases are done online.  In addition, I've heard some disturbing things about the Tamiya stuff, so I may see what else is out there.  

[Mike 1017]

Just now, Monty said:

No, I would've been using either Duracell or Energizer regular batteries.  I don't think I own anything that takes lithium batteries.

Did you crack it open to see what kind of batteries? I would not want this to happen to me and burn my house down. I will check out mine latter today to see what type of batteries are in it

Mike

[Monty]

1 minute ago, Mike 1017 said:

Did you crack it open to see what kind of batteries? I would not want this to happen to me and burn my house down. I will check out mine latter today to see what type of batteries are in it

Mike

I believe it came with a battery, so I probably didn't pay much attention to it.  My situation was probably an anomaly; if this kind of malfunction had been  endemic, it would've been virtually impossible to keep the news out of most modeling forums.  

 

[ctruss53]

Sorry if this has been covered. I scrolled to the bottom quick to reply to the OP.

Tamiya Panel Line Stuff is an enamel. You can't use lacquers or acrylics with it.

One thing to note is the pigment in the panel line solution can clump as it sits. You just need to spend some time mixing it really well if you haven't used it in a while. Shake it for a good 5 minutes, physically stir it with a toothpick or sprue, or get a paint mixing tool.

Tamiya Panel Line solution for me, has always had some small chunks in it. I just mix it well and keep on using it.

[espo]

18 hours ago, Monty said:

It's more or less sludgy - some liquid with chunks in it.  If I understand correctly, this stuff is enamel, and I didn't know if this was a sign that it had turned bad or if mixing and thinning would reconstitute it.  

Regarding the Tamiya X-20 thinner, here's what someone posted the other day:

If I remember right I read someplace the alcohol in X-20a is some form of glycol alcohol. Denatured alcohol would indeed be closer than iso. And actually denatured alcohol works well in Tamiya acrylics. So does lacquer thinner. At the Tamiya site they list LT as the thinner to use if you want a harder finish ( look in the fine extended print there).

I'm thinking glycol alcohol won't work with enamel.  

Sorry if my information lead you astray. I have the Tamiya X-20A Thinner and is all I have used. Relooking at the Panel Line bottle I was able to read the label, under a very high powered lense, that Tamiya recommends their X-20, no suffix, for any clean up. The X20A Thinner lists N-Propanol and Butyl Alcohol as ingredients. Another Tamiya product to consider, and what I have used in the past, is their X-19 Smoke. They offer a spray can, but I use the small brush paint type bottle. This is somewhat thinner and works well for trim and chrome grills and is less expensive. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Just a thought...I sure as jell wouldn't use lacquer thinner if you intend to use your panel liner over a model painted with lacquer OR enamel.

Lacquer thinner will re-wet lacquer and could make a horrible mess, and lacquer thinner could very well cause an enamel job to wrinkle.

As always, TEST on something you don't care about BERFORE using whatever you come up with on a model.

 

[Monty]

4 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Just a thought...I sure as jell wouldn't use lacquer thinner if you intend to use your panel liner over a model painted with lacquer OR enamel.

Lacquer thinner will re-wet lacquer and could make a horrible mess, and lacquer thinner could very well cause an enamel job to wrinkle.

As always, TEST on something you don't care about BERFORE using whatever you come up with on a model.

 

Agreed, but someone beat you to the punch hours ago.  Sad that it didn't occur to me when I originally posted it, but I am home sick, so...  

[Bugatti Fan]

I suggested Tamiya thinners earlier to make the paint more fluid.

Having said that I personally use a black acrylic like Revell Aquacolour or an Artists acrylic like Liquitex or Winsor and Newton thinned to an almost watery consistency and use a mapping pen that is an old fashioned dip pen with a fine nib to follow the gap lines. Much easier than a brush once you get the hang of it. Scoring the lines a bit deeper on the kit before priming and painting will assist capillary action to make the thinner paint flow along gap lines I have found.

It sticking with the Tamiya try thinning it as much as possible and use the dip pen method as you will probably be able to lift just the more fluid element of the paint when dipping the nib. Besides art suppliers, you may be able to obtain a fine nibbed calligraphy dip pen at a good stationers.

[Mike 1017]

21 hours ago, Monty said:

I believe it came with a battery, so I probably didn't pay much attention to it.  My situation was probably an anomaly; if this kind of malfunction had been  endemic, it would've been virtually impossible to keep the news out of most modeling forums.  

 

I checked my mixer it has 1 AA battery. You are right if these things were spontaneously catching on fire, it would have been all over the place

[oldcarfan]

Don't know if it works on this stuff, but on some other paints I used a compatible thinner, used a battery powered stirrer and then ran the result through a coffee filter a couple of times to get rid of any remaining chunks. It worked pretty well.