Just a simple little T Bucket

[OldNYJim]

I’ve started a couple of these and not quite nailed them…but I figured out what I didn’t like about the first couple of tries and I think I’ve got it this time…

Concept is: just a simple little T Bucket.  Nothing crazy, just your typical little build…but hopefully a NICE one, with some character.

Started out with a square tube frame, front suicide mount and a 3D printed rear member:

Body will be the AMT 23 T, sans pickup bed or turtledeck, and the one atypical part I’ll be using on this build will be a set of 36 Ford wheels…mostly because I think they look awesome and I can’t find evidence of anyone using them on a 1:1 before (although I’m sure SOMEONE has):

Suspension will be a parts-box unknown tube axle out front with the old Revell Parts Pak leaf spring and hairpins:

And rear axle is another parts box part, with another Revell Parts Pak leaf spring:

Grille shell is from a junker Revell T bucket that I picked up, radiator is from the same (but chopped down in height a little) and the headlamps are stock Model T (I think?) from the parts box again:

I’ll be scratchbuilding an interior for this one, so first job was piecing together a floor:

I’ll finish the trans tunnel once I’ve got the engine mocked up and in place, but it drops right in there nicely:

Those rear drum brakes are 3D printed and I found some little disks that will work well out front I think…and after a few hours of benchtime it’s already on it’s wheels for the first mock-up and stance check:

I’ve been messing with this for the past coupla weeks while we had visitors staying with us, so there’s a bunch of tiny 10-minute bench sessions that have gone into this so far…but our guests left yesterday so it’s time to really dig into this one.

More soon, soon as I’ve done more!

[OldNYJim]

A little more progress this last week…

I picked up some off-brand Renshape ‘foam’:

I didn’t like the seat options of any of the T kits I had in my stash - I wanted something much simpler, so I carved some nice simple seats like I had in mind:

Also started playing with some ‘door’ panels (not that the doors work…)

 

Picked out an engine…an SBC is kinda a cliched obvious choice for one of these, which is exactly why I picked it…

That Revell Parks Pak motor is really nicely done, and helpfully includes a motor mount so I notched the frame a little so I could get it in place…and while I was at it I built a little cross member and added some trailing arms to keep the rear end in place:

Stripped the chrome on the block and and trans so I could mock the motor up and see how it fits in there…just barely squeezes in the frame ok:

Need to make a driveshaft, and figure out where a brake booster can fit in this whole arrangement…mock-up with the body in place:

I couldn’t find a gas tank I liked so I designed one in CAD when I had a quiet afternoon at work and printed a test piece this evening:

And that’s my progress since the last update…

Big things to sort next are the steering, deciding how I want the dash to look, taillights and license plate placement on the back and the tough one…the windshield.  Plenty to do still…more soon, soon as I’ve done more!

Edited June 18, 2023 by CabDriver

[ea0863]

Not only a sweet build, but a great set of instructions for the rest of us to follow. Fantastic!

[Andrew McD]

Fascinating, I'll be following.

[Andy Oldenburg]

Hello Jim,

impressive work on your hotty! Like the road your going on and am looking forward to the progress. I always get envious of you guys with printers!

btw - Is that German beer those girls are drinking??

[Straightliner59]

This is really cool. I absolutely love the way it sits! I'm not even a T-Bucket guy. What's your Renshape "analog" called? I wouldn't mind picking up a little. Thanks, Jim. Very nice work, here!

[OldNYJim]

Thanks fellas!

6 hours ago, Andy Oldenburg said:

btw - Is that German beer those girls are drinking??

I believe so!  It’s Oktoberfest somewhere! ?

6 hours ago, Straightliner59 said:

What's your Renshape "analog" called? I wouldn't mind picking up a little. Thanks, Jim. Very nice work, here!

Thank you!!

This is the stuff I ordered:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08JLPNFB4?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

It carves nicely, you can sand it easily, cut it with a saw, drill and tap it, lathe it…it’s super useful!  Dusty, and it smells of Bondo pretty strongly, but it was invaluable for making those little seat cushions!

 

Small update, as I’m replying anyway…next thing I needed to do to really get the overall look of this thing locked down was to figure out a frame for the windshield.  I wanted something fairly tall, like Roth’s Tweedy Pie for those of you who have seen that, and also not too chunky looking like a lot of the styrene ones are…

Some brass rod and soldering later…

The frame itself clicks in, with a push fit, to a tab behind the dashboard and then gets sandwiched in place behind the dash, once I finally figure out what I want to make there…I wanted to make sure it was nice and secure in there and I think I’ve got it worked out.

Meanwhile, less interesting, but I had to finish up the trans tunnel and floor so that I could figure out pedal and steering rack placement so I got that job done…the trans has an access cover on the driver’s side that I had to box around which ruined the symmetry of the floor, but space is really at a premium in these little T-buckets so this seemed the most sensible option…

A little smoothing out and some carpet and it’ll look ok, hopefully…I also made an inner firewall piece to hide where the ‘real’ firewall glues to the body.

Just a mini update…more soon, soon as I’ve done more! 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Really liking this. Good proportions, sits right...and I especially applaud you trying to find reasonable space and mountings for functional things like the brake booster, pedals, etc. Windshield frame's very nice too. Most excellent.   

[Straightliner59]

 

Yep! Just right! Your solder joints looks very nice, too. Really liking this project. Thanks for the link--I now have some on the way!

Edited June 19, 2023 by Straightliner59

[OldNYJim]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Really liking this. Good proportions, sits right...and I especially applaud you trying to find reasonable space and mountings for functional things like the brake booster, pedals, etc. Windshield frame's very nice too. Most excellent.   

Thanks Bill!  I was concerned by the complete lack of space I had available for a gas pedal - or, at least, one mounted in a conventional spot...but then I researched real ones and it seems like that's a challenge they have in REAL T-buckets rather than one I caused all on my own...

Mine definitely won't be any WORSE than these examples anyway - maybe having it hang from under the dash rather than be floor mountedwould be a smart way to handle that issue?

Definitely will need to get creative with the brake booster...I had a very specific idea of where I wanted the engine to sit, how I wanted the frame to look and the overall stance - but that doesn't leave me a bunch of extra space in the frame.  I COULD hide a master cylinder under the dash, but I also wanted a sprint-car style steering box exiting through the cowl, and I can't have both...but these are the fun engineering challenges that we get to wrap our minds around!  At least I can hide the battery under the seat

45 minutes ago, Straightliner59 said:

 

Yep! Just right! Your solder joints looks very nice, too. Really liking this project. Thanks for the link--I now have some on the way!

Actually, I gotta clean up the excess solder on the back of that windshield still - but the front side doesn't look too bad at least   Thank you!

[bobthehobbyguy]

Coming together nicely. I enjoy seeing how you use a mixture of techniques for making the parts you need. You choose what suits the need best.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, CabDriver said:

Thanks Bill!  I was concerned by the complete lack of space I had available for a gas pedal - or, at least, one mounted in a conventional spot...but then I researched real ones and it seems like that's a challenge they have in REAL T-buckets rather than one I caused all on my own...

Mine definitely won't be any WORSE than these examples anyway - maybe having it hang from under the dash rather than be floor mountedwould be a smart way to handle that issue?

Definitely will need to get creative with the brake booster...I had a very specific idea of where I wanted the engine to sit, how I wanted the frame to look and the overall stance - but that doesn't leave me a bunch of extra space in the frame.  I COULD hide a master cylinder under the dash, but I also wanted a sprint-car style steering box exiting through the cowl, and I can't have both...but these are the fun engineering challenges that we get to wrap our minds around!  At least I can hide the battery under the seat

Actually, I gotta clean up the excess solder on the back of that windshield still - but the front side doesn't look too bad at least   Thank you!

Getting everything to fit and function in real cars can be challenging, definitely. It's kinda harder to fit things in a model, as there's no space to get life-size hands in to work.

The little available space on a T-bucket makes it that much harder.

And yes, you usually drive a T-bucket with your gas-foot on the tunnel.  

Swinging (suspended) pedals might help, but the firewall is so narrow the booster might very well interfere with the engine. I recently had to use a hydroboost unit on a big ol' Chevelle build for that very reason (it's a long story).

There is also a way to use a non-boosted master cylinder on the firewall to save space, and plumb it into a boosted master cylinder servo unit mounted remotely under the floor, or somewhere else entirely. A lot of production vehicles have used such a setup, too.

You can mount a remote booster just about anywhere you can find room, provided the vacuum hose running to it will not collapse under vacuum.

Frame rail attachments under the seat, on either side of the driveshaft, are popular locations for both battery boxes and booster units on T-buckets and other smaller hot-rods.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

Another thought...a light car can usually be built without the need for a brake booster, even with 4-wheel disc brakes (like Porsche 914s and early 911s, that had some of the best brakes of the period...much better than most hot-rod brakes).

All that's required is paying careful attention to the mechanical advantage provided by the pedal arm swing, and the ratio between master cylinder diameter and wheel-cylinder or caliper piston diameters.

Also...brake and clutch pedals can be suspended from pivots concentric with a steering cross-shaft, to let you have your "sprint-car" style cowl steering-shaft-exit cake, and eat it too.

Nice thing about a model is that if it looks reasonably right, it doesn't actually have to work, so all the math involved in calculating mechanical advantage in a real system can be sidestepped entirely. 

Underfloor brake and clutch master cylinders don't necessarily have to be mounted in line with the pedals that actuate them, either. The masters can be offset by means of bellcranks on a cross-shaft, if space constraints are really difficult.

You can even mount a master cylinder sideways under the dash, operated by a bellcrank. Possible solutions are almost limitless.  https://scottshotrods.com/pedal-assemblies/

                https://kugelkomponents.com/product-category/brake-systems-and-accessories/reverse-90-degree-under-dash/

This is the kind of stuff that usually bogs down my model builds...deciding what would be the best way to accommodate conflicting needs if I were building in 1:1.  

Edited June 19, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[slusher]

Nice work Jim!

[Andy Oldenburg]

Great ideas around this rod! Very creative input for me. I have been using brass rods for different purposes for a while and until now haven´t had the need to solder them. But now I have seen that trick, I know I will need to apply it soon.

[Dennis M]

Way to go Jim'' what a beauty.

[OldNYJim]

Thanks for the nice comments, everyone.

And particularly thanks to Bill for the heads up on those Scotts Hot Rod pedal assemblies…that looked like the perfect solution to hiding some of the brake gubbins under the dash.  

Helpfully, they even give you a bunch of dimensions, so I spent an hour tonight making a quick mock-up of one to try under the dash to see if it’ll work.  The 1:1 part Bill linked to above:

My (rough) approximation of the same:

And a quick test fit on the interior ‘tub’ that I’ve been messing with:

It’s a tight fit, but it fits!  I need to mess with the angle of the cranks (or make some better ones) but as a quick test…I’m pleased!  It DOES take up the spot that I had saved for the cowl-exit steering box, but there’s space in between the outer and inner firewalls for that to fit (not that you’ll ever see it if I put it there but nice to know it would work for real…)

Just a tiny update, but a big part of the puzzle solved.  Thanks Bill@Ace-Garageguy!!

Edited June 21, 2023 by CabDriver

[Straightliner59]

Wow! That assembly really eats up some space! Looks great, Jim. I'd say you did just fine, with it! 

[Phildaupho]

Your master cylinder is a great little model in its own right

[OldNYJim]

Thanks fellas!  I probably SHOULD have modeled the brake stuff in 3D and printed it - I would’ve been able to get more detail in there and got the scale thicknesses of the parts closer to real life…but it’s mostly hidden under the dash anyway, and I felt like making something ?

Just a short continuation of last night’s post…tonight I mocked up the cowl-exit steering box AND the brake setup in their correct spots and did a nervous test-fit to see if my measurements had worked out…

SUCCESS!

Everything fits, could be built in real life…I’m happy!  Need to choose some pedals, but it’s all good in the hood.

Couple of shots of this thing nearing fabrication-completion:

Need to make a couple of linkages for the front end, mounts for the gas tank, and figure out a brake light - I’m thinking something like the (I guess?) original T lantern style light…just one of them probably, because I like a little asymmetry:
 

I’d guess one of the various T kits probably has these in there already, but it won’t be super hard to scratchbuild if I have to…

Thanks for looking - more soon, soon as I’ve done more!

Edited June 22, 2023 by CabDriver

[bobthehobbyguy]

Nice work. Nice scratchbuilding. I would think that if you needed more of those parts it would have made sense to do the 3d printed part. Plus it's handy to keep your scratchbuilding skills sharp.

[Straightliner59]

1 hour ago, CabDriver said:

I felt like making something ?

I feel that way, all the time!?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Super slick job of fabbing that 90deg pedal setup, and getting everything to fit...and look believably functional too. A+.  

[Andy Oldenburg]

Stunning build with all those scrap parts. Creativity meets craftsmanship! Pls tell me you NOT going for a "patina" paint job. This baby needs something special!

[Calb56]

20 hours ago, Andy Oldenburg said:

Stunning build with all those scrap parts. Creativity meets craftsmanship! Pls tell me you NOT going for a "patina" paint job. This baby needs something special!

Agreed but... a good patina isn't easy to do!

But Candy Apple "something" would look great!