1958 Ford promo or kit?

[fordf-100]

Hi all, I figured someone on here could maybe give me some insight on a recent kit? I picked up at a show. It is a 58 Ford that had a good thick coat of paint, white on top and metallic blue on the bottom with trim painted gold. I thought it was a kit as there is no warping at all showing, a very light twist to the body. When I got home and took a closer look I wasn’t sure it actually was a kit. I am not real familiar with these early promos or kits other than most promos I’ve seen have a lot of warping and shrinking. The reason I thought it might be a promo is the inside was painted which as I understand helps stop warp age. So when I stripped it I was looking on the inside of the body and I had thought the early kits had “partial holes” underneath to open up for mirrors, antenna and custom stuff. This does not have any and the underside is not smooth. I know it’s not resin, this may sound stupid but it “sounds” like styrene, I ground a little from the inside and it smelled like styrene and I glued the crack in the windshield. The frame and interior are only slightly brush painted and show no warping at all. I would appreciate any opinions/comments, if it’s a promo I may put it up for trade but if it’s a kit I would like to try and restore it. It has some sanding done on the body and might make a nice custom! Thanks!

[Mark]

Kit.  A promo would have been assembled by heat staking the interior posts (heating them with an iron until they mushroomed around the interior tabs).  It would probably have a metal chassis with no detail, that would probably be attached with metal pins as opposed to screws.

[fordf-100]

Thanks Mark! Didn’t even think about a metal chassis!

[bobss396]

It may be an SMP kit, precursor to the AMT line. I know of a club member that scored a pair of them recently. I'll have to ask him later in the month. I see them on eBay once in a while. Modelhaus used to be the only source for lights and chrome for those.

[presnell]

I had the same kit in 58, my first kit and it was just like yours,came with fender skirts,spot lights,and other add ons. If my memory is correct you have a kit.

[Mark]

AMT was heavily tied in with Ford, the kits were AMT.  SMP was a separate company but with some investment from AMT.  SMP was set up to try to get promo model business from Chevrolet and Chrysler, and had success doing so.  Of the 11 1958 "AMT" annual kits, three were SMP (Chevrolet Impala convertible and hardtop, and Imperial which was only sold as a convertible in kit form).  The remaining eight (Ford, Edsel, Pontiac, and Buick, all offered as both hardtop and convertible) were AMT. 

AMT formally bought out SMP in August 1961.  A handful of '62 Imperial convertible kits, and a number of '62 Valiant Styline kits, were produced with SMP boxes.  '62 Impala kits have license plates with SMP lettering on the plated trees.  

Edited October 7, 2023 by Mark
Spell check

[espo]

First off congratulations on finding this model. This may very well be a Promo, and I'll share why I think this based on things you mentioned. You mention that there are no provisions in the body to mount any of the kit's accessories. Looking at the picture of the frame you will notice that they have AMT listed as the manufacturer. I'm old enough to have purchased one of the AMT kits when they were issued in 1958. At the time AMT would bring out the new models in the fall. Snow flying outside and they bring the model of a convertible to market followed in the spring with a hard top version, seems reversed to my young mind at the time. The chassis in the kit version at least included small blocks for mounting the axels in either the stock location or a lowered stance. I don't know if this was present on a Promo, but I don't think that they would. The mounting of the chassis to the body was done in several different fashions at the time. The heat sealing of the four mounting points was what was most often seen on promos of the time. The kits I built offered either a metal screw or even a screw that the head was designed to only be installed and the slot wouldn't allow a screwdriver to reverse the screw or remove it once installed. This may have been used on promos as well. Either way it looks like you have a great basises for a '50's cruiser build. 

[peteski]

15 hours ago, bobss396 said:

It may be an SMP kit, precursor to the AMT line. I know of a club member that scored a pair of them recently. I'll have to ask him later in the month. I see them on eBay once in a while. Modelhaus used to be the only source for lights and chrome for those.

Bob, looks like you missed the "Copyright by A.M.T. ..." engraved on the right frame rail on one of the photos.

[bobss396]

8 hours ago, peteski said:

Bob, looks like you missed the "Copyright by A.M.T. ..." engraved on the right frame rail on one of the photos.

My bad, is there an address for AMT on them? I have seen some promos with something other but Troy Michigan on them.

[Mark]

AMT started out in Birmingham, Michigan, and later moved to Troy.  The Troy facility was sold to Stanley (tool/garage door hardware company) in 1978 when property values started going up.  Everything got moved to a smaller facility they already had in Baltimore, where they had been producing truck kits up until then.  Lesney bought AMT around that time.

The Troy building was later used by Ford, the first generation "retro" Ford GTs were at least partly assembled there.  Not sure who is there now, or even if it still standing.

[fordf-100]

On 10/7/2023 at 11:54 AM, espo said:

First off congratulations on finding this model. This may very well be a Promo, and I'll share why I think this based on things you mentioned. You mention that there are no provisions in the body to mount any of the kit's accessories. Looking at the picture of the frame you will notice that they have AMT listed as the manufacturer. I'm old enough to have purchased one of the AMT kits when they were issued in 1958. At the time AMT would bring out the new models in the fall. Snow flying outside and they bring the model of a convertible to market followed in the spring with a hard top version, seems reversed to my young mind at the time. The chassis in the kit version at least included small blocks for mounting the axels in either the stock location or a lowered stance. I don't know if this was present on a Promo, but I don't think that they would. The mounting of the chassis to the body was done in several different fashions at the time. The heat sealing of the four mounting points was what was most often seen on promos of the time. The kits I built offered either a metal screw or even a screw that the head was designed to only be installed and the slot wouldn't allow a screwdriver to reverse the screw or remove it once installed. This may have been used on promos as well. Either way it looks like you have a great basises for a '50's cruiser build. 

Thanks David! This does have the axle blocks glued in the frame but they are the larger diameter axles with only 1 ride height choice. The chassis looks as if it was screwed to the body. Hopefully I will be able to find the missing parts!

[fordf-100]

On 10/7/2023 at 8:20 AM, Mark said:

AMT was heavily tied in with Ford, the kits were AMT.  SMP was a separate company but with some investment from AMT.  SMP was set up to try to get promo model business from Chevrolet and Chrysler, and had success doing so.  Of the 11 1958 "AMT" annual kits, three were SMP (Chevrolet Impala convertible and hardtop, and Imperial which was only sold as a convertible in kit form).  The remaining eight (Ford, Edsel, Pontiac, and Buick, all offered as both hardtop and convertible) were AMT. 

AMT formally bought out SMP in August 1961.  A handful of '62 Imperial convertible kits, and a number of '62 Valiant Styline kits, were produced with SMP boxes.  '62 Impala kits have license plates with SMP lettering on the plated trees.  

Mark, what year was the first AMT styrene promos made? Was it 61 or 62? Were the 58 kits and promos made from the same molds or did they require different molds due to the acetate or styrene? Just curious!

[StevenGuthmiller]

Aside from the obligatory warpage and heat swaged interior and glass that are the standard giveaways for a promo, as Phillip stated, "sound" and "feel" is a good indication of whether or not you have a promo, or a kit.

If you flick the body with a finger nail and get a sort of dull thud, versus a sharp click, it's likely acetate, and therefore a promo.

The acetate promo bodies are generally heavier and have an almost "oily" feel in comparison to a styrene body, and acetate is generally more flexible, with a kind of rubbery feel, versus styrene which is stiffer and more brittle.

 

My opinion is that it is indeed a kit, just from the look of the photos.

 

The interiors are very shallow and devoid of detail in these early kits, but they can still build into a pretty impressive model with some love and attention.

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by StevenGuthmiller

[Mark]

In most cases the same tooling was used to produce promos and kits.  There are exceptions, but those were just that, exceptions.  Those were probably dictated by larger than usual promo orders, or anticipated demand for kits.  It's all guesswork sixty years after the fact.

AMT/SMP promos started getting away from warpage prone acetate during the 1961 model year.  I don't bother with the acetate promos, so I can't say which ones were produced in what material, or if any were produced in both acetate and Cycolac (styrene promos weren't made until later).  I do have a '61 Impala four-door hardtop promo, and I know that one isn't acetate.

[peteski]

14 hours ago, bobss396 said:

My bad, is there an address for AMT on them? I have seen some promos with something other but Troy Michigan on them.

If you look at the photo in the first post of this thread it shows the frame engraved with "Birmingham Mich."  Here is that photo again:

[fordf-100]

10 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Aside from the obligatory warpage and heat swaged interior and glass that are the standard giveaways for a promo, as Phillip stated, "sound" and "feel" is a good indication of whether or not you have a promo, or a kit.

If you flick the body with a finger nail and get a sort of dull thud, versus a sharp click, it's likely acetate, and therefore a promo.

The acetate promo bodies are generally heavier and have an almost "oily" feel in comparison to a styrene body, and acetate is generally more flexible, with a kind of rubbery feel, versus styrene which is stiffer and more brittle.

 

My opinion is that it is indeed a kit, just from the look of the photos.

 

The interiors are very shallow and devoid of detail in these early kits, but they can still build into a pretty impressive model with some love and attention.

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

Steve that is a beautiful 58! As all of your stuff is! What hubcaps did you use? 
Those early interiors are very shallow, this was missing a dash and steering wheel, I picked a dash up on eBay and I’m sure I have a parts box steering wheel that should look ok. The missing window might be a little troublesome because I have tried to make replacements for some other 50’s kits and I struggle with it, they never fit!

[fordf-100]

10 hours ago, Mark said:

In most cases the same tooling was used to produce promos and kits.  There are exceptions, but those were just that, exceptions.  Those were probably dictated by larger than usual promo orders, or anticipated demand for kits.  It's all guesswork sixty years after the fact.

AMT/SMP promos started getting away from warpage prone acetate during the 1961 model year.  I don't bother with the acetate promos, so I can't say which ones were produced in what material, or if any were produced in both acetate and Cycolac (styrene promos weren't made until later).  I do have a '61 Impala four-door hardtop promo, and I know that one isn't acetate.

I also stay away from the early promos that warp, that’s why I was a little concerned about this 58, I sometimes have a little trouble telling them apart but everyone here gave me some good tips to make sure I’m getting a kit!

[fordf-100]

6 minutes ago, fordf-100 said:

I also stay away from the early promos that warp, that’s why I was a little concerned about this 58, I sometimes have a little trouble telling them apart but everyone here gave me some good tips to make sure I’m getting a kit!

To clarify I have trouble telling them apart when they have vey little warp, most are pretty easy to spot!

[StevenGuthmiller]

11 minutes ago, fordf-100 said:

Steve that is a beautiful 58! As all of your stuff is! What hubcaps did you use? 
Those early interiors are very shallow, this was missing a dash and steering wheel, I picked a dash up on eBay and I’m sure I have a parts box steering wheel that should look ok. The missing window might be a little troublesome because I have tried to make replacements for some other 50’s kits and I struggle with it, they never fit!

The hubcaps are the original stock caps from the kit.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

[SSNJim]

I believe I have a 58 Ford promo. It's in decent shape and certainly restorable, but there is some minor warpage along the passenger side rocker panel.

The first photo is the interior attachment as seen through the right front wheel well.

The second photo is a view of the friction chassis (friction motor missing).

The third photo is a left front view.

The fourth photo is the right rear view. Part of the fin is missing, and the rear bumper is severely damaged/missing pieces. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by SSNJim

[fordf-100]

19 hours ago, SSNJim said:

I believe I have a 58 Ford promo. It's in decent shape and certainly restorable, but there is some minor warpage along the passenger side rocker panel.

The first photo is the interior attachment as seen through the right front wheel well.

The second photo is a view of the friction chassis (friction motor missing).

The third photo is a left front view.

The fourth photo is the right rear view. Part of the fin is missing, and the rear bumper is severely damaged/missing pieces. 

Thanks for the photos, that’s a nice color combo on that!

[Mark]

The issue with acetate promos is not that they warp.  It's that they warp and shrink, and don't do either uniformly.  999 times out of 1,000, trying to straighten one is a fool's errand.  And that 1,000th one is best handled by someone with experience in doing so.  And that person will probably suggest that you leave it alone if it is otherwise in good shape.

[TarheelRick]

I also have a 58 Ford friction, except mine is convertible. If you notice the bumper is beginning to separate from the body, the front tire is forward in the wheel well, which indicates the body is shrinking.  For some reason the bumper/grille, rear bumper and taillight assemblies are not shrinking or warping. By chance are they a different type of material from the rest of the body?

[Mark]

Bumpers are styrene.  Acetate bumpers would probably have warped/shrunk during the vacuum medallions (plating) process, as heat is involved.

Monogram did plate acetate trim parts for its '55-'56 Cadillac kits.  All of those that I have seen were more of a dull silver than bright chrome.

[espo]

22 hours ago, SSNJim said:

I believe I have a 58 Ford promo. It's in decent shape and certainly restorable, but there is some minor warpage along the passenger side rocker panel.

The first photo is the interior attachment as seen through the right front wheel well.

The second photo is a view of the friction chassis (friction motor missing).

The third photo is a left front view.

The fourth photo is the right rear view. Part of the fin is missing, and the rear bumper is severely damaged/missing pieces. 

I'm thinking this is an old "friction" style toy much like Tarheel Ricks. I also had a few of these along with a '56 Olds and a '55 Dodge as a child. The give away is the metal chassis and you will notice a couple of slots in the chassis that were the attachment points for the friction motor.  You would hold the car and run it forward a few times on the floor and this would get a small flywheel mounted on the chassis spinning. You could then set it on the ground, and it would run across the floor until the energy in the flywheel was spent. All great fun before remote control electric car and truck toys were invented.