O.T. Any advice on this situation?

[Willy Survive]

Hey guys I just had to get something off of my chest. It's not a model car rant so I figured this would be the place to do it.

I'm a production welder at a fab shop in southwestern PA. ( Yeah I know manufacturing sucks right now. ) Well, yesterday afternoon I went to work to be informed that I would be moved to the press brake area and given a $4 an hour decrease. Not as punishment but because I'm "adaptable" and pick things up pretty quickly. At least thats what I was told. I was also told that they weren't going to pay me as a welder while I was working as a bender. Sounds like punishment to me. Anyhow, It was also stated that I would have to switch shifts and start working day shift (7am - 3pm). Now this doesn't sound like a horrible shift but I have a 3 and a 2 year old that I take to daycare. Start time 8am. When I tried to explain this problem to the plant manager I was told "Now you're making your personal problems my problems and I don't give a [hoot] about it". When I simply explained that then it wouldn't be possible for me to work that shift and "maybe could I do a 9 to 5" I was told that if I didn't do it (the 7 to 3 shift) they would consider that my resignation. Apparently so they wouldn't have to pay me unemployment.

Now I been with this company for about a year and a half and have never been late or missed a day. I've never been written up or had a part sent back due to poor quality (or for any other reason for that matter). I've always been willing to help in other departments when we were slow. I've pulled my share of doubles and have had vacation days canceled due to needing something to go on the truck. I'm not tooting my own horn but all in all I feel I'm a reasonably good employee. I've even slept in the parking lot so I could go back and work day shift after getting off at 3am.

I guess my question is does this make sense to any of you? I understand some of you will think there are two sides to every story but truthfully this is what happened. Any of you guys business owners? Anyone work in manufacturing? Should I get out while I can? This has got me really upset and I don't know what to do. I don't mean to sound whiny but I really need some advice about this. Thanks for listening guys. I appreciate it.

BTW This is why I've been kinda cranky. Sorry if I came off as a jerk to anyone.

Also BTW The company is Sabina Manufacturing which is owned by Park-Ohio. They're a pretty big company. We do a lot of work for ABB, JLG, Grove, and McKesson. If you work for any of those places please take this into consideration. Thanks again.

Edited March 20, 2009 by Willy Survive

[Steven Zimmerman]

I take it you're not working in a union shop,or don't have a contract with this company. If you ARE in a union,have you contacted your union grievance person- if not,contact the dept. of labor and industry to see what your rights are. You also may be eligable for Unemployment compensation due to circumstances beyond your control. I've been a grievance person for over 20 years,these kinds of things happen every day in the work force. Thats why we need unions,and why we need contractual language in place to protect us from this kind of thing.............Steven Zimmerman,proud member of USWA local 1917-03 Channellock Inc.

[j_nigrelli]

eerrr.......... have you seen a newspaper lately? this may not be the best time to have the "take this job and shove it" attitude.

but there's no reason you can't put out some feelers and look around while you adapt and possibly learn new skills and still get paid for it.

[Smart-Resins]

Well, to me it sounds like the company had a choice, move you and pay you less, or lay you off or find a reason to fire you! I would take the move if possible! I have been layed off and finding decent work for decent pay in my area does not seem very likely at the moment. I am only one of millions across the USA that has been layed off within the last year! Now if you can not accept it due to day care situations, I suggest to quickly find a new day care! However, if you can not. I am sure you will be denied UIB to start with but if you apeal it and you have good solid reason and proof in writing for it like not being able to work around the schedule with day care, there is a chance to still get it. However again, even though it totally sucks and ticks you off and leaves a bitter taste in your mouth, Id take the postion offered! Jody

[george 53]

Will, I DO feel for you brother, but without a union to protect your rights as a worker, you ARE at the whims and mercy of the Co. THAT'S why unions are SO important to a workers way of life! Look at what you do. You give your time and talent to a company who only sees you as a workhores. They probably don't even concider the impact of their decisions on the workforce,only on their bottom line. Hey, be glad you got a job is THEIR attitude! Big Companys WANT to make as much profit as they can, and without union protection,YOUR expendable. In this economy, ANYBODY can do your job,EVEN YOU,with the appropriate cut in pay,of course. I've been a union man ALL my life, and even now,in retirement,I still am. I do truley hope everything works out for you Will, your a good man, and deserve to be treated properly. Your skills and talents ARE unique to you, and so is your desire to do the best you can for your employer. Now HE needs to see this and understand that unhappy workers WILL produce an unhappy product! MONEY is NOT always the bottom line!

[ricky12]

unless jobs are plentiful in your erea you will have to suck it up . even coming from a union shop i had my hours cut and chaged for about the last year . now this week they come out and tell me im done they dont need me anymore good luck thats it . SORRY!!!

[MrObsessive]

Well seeing what most of the guys are saying here, I've got to agree that without plentiful jobs to go around in this era-------you'll either have to deal with the situation, or hit the door.

I work in manufacturing (electronics end) and we just had a MAJOR layoff on my job. Where I work there were whole departments let go, and there was no rhyme or reason as to who was let go.

There were folks who were there as little as a year, to those who worked there nearly 40 years who were given their walking papers. They were given severance pay and whatnot, but how long will that last?

I feel for you man-------while I don't have any kids and don't have to worry about those things, I can certainly understand the terrible position this puts you in.

My advice is to try to do the best job you can while you're there-------but in the meantime you're always looking, always planning.

[OneTrickPony]

It doesn't sound like your boss is really open to suggestions but maybe you could offer him a compromise that he had not thought of.

You could offer to take a cut to stay on as a welder in your current shift. I can't say how this might affect your UB in your state but offering a reasonable compromise and being turned down might help with benefits. But offering to stay on as a welder with a $2 cut might be enough to bump someone else and gain you time to find another job. That's one of the benefits on working the evening shift. You can apply for other jobs during the day while still working.

Good luck and God bless,

Dave J

Edited March 20, 2009 by OneTrickPony

[Fuel Coupe]

times are tough and finding a job in this economy is even tougher. You said it yourself manufacturing sucks right now. You may have to just work with what they are offering until you find something else. I'm assuming you are a single parent or possibly your wife works an off shift from you. Some suggestions are to find someone to get your kids off to daycare or possibly find another day care that is open a little earlier than the one you use. Might be a naive statement but show them you are versatile and it may pay off in the long run. Its possible you already have and this is why they have offered you a pay reduction and job change rather than a R.O.F.

The company I work for sustained major flood damage from Hurricane Ike and I thought for sure I would have to start over. $500 million dollars in recovery repairs later we are two weeks away from starting our C2/C3 compressors and resuming production. there are plants around us that will never recover and are being mothballed. leaving hundreds without jobs

I guess what I'm saying is roll with it and be grateful you are employed (which I'm sure you are) and just realize they are NOT going to work with you on this. stick it out and start looking for something else.

[airbrush addict]

Find a solution to keep your current job untill you can find something else. Have you reached out to friends or even other parents that use the same day care? Surely someone you trust can take them for you.

Unfortunatly I am in the same position as your boss. I've had to lay off 2/3 of our employees and move our A team members to other jobs, etc. We even have office employees working on our assembly line. We have cut hours, cut our salaries, even instituted a food bank program so our team members can eat!!

The reason why I bring that up is because your boss sounds like a schmuck. He definitly could have handled the situation differently. He probably can't change your hours, etc. However, he could have done it in a more acceptable manner.

Do all of the managers at that company deal with employees like that?? If so, they need to change!!!

Here's another idea, can you drop them off at an employee of the day care's house?? I used to do that with my daughter. They would even take her home if I worked late. Of course, I had to trust them 1st!!!

Good luck...

Edited March 20, 2009 by airbrush addict

[roadhawg]

Not to offend anyone, but if it was a union company, your company would probably already be out of business now and you would be laid off. Thats the reason the automakers are in such trouble.....paying people 40 bucks an hour to screw on lug nuts would break ANYBODY!

Anyway....I don't really see where they're giving you any choice. All I can do, my friend, is tell you what I would do if it was me.

The biggest issue is the day care. Personally, I've never heard of a day care that won't take kids before 8. I have a kid in day care and they start takin' em in at 6:30.....so you're probably going to have to find another day care, or see if a family member or friend could help out.

Once you get the day care situation resolved, then you can tackle the job issue. If I had no other choice, I would accept their offer.....for now. 4 bucks an hour is a lot of money, so as bad as I hate to say it, you might need to cut back on some stuff, temporarily. Things like cable TV, internet, and yes, even models are luxuries.....the priorities are rent/mortgage, utilities, and food. If you are making payments on a car or boat or something, maybe you should consider selling it and driving a paid-for clunker for awhile.

Now....once you get all this in place, its time to start looking for another job. As mad as you are at the place you work now, don't ever bad-mouth them.....things like that can come back to haunt you!

I DO realize jobs are scarce right now, but I also know that if I look hard enough I'll find SOMETHING.....it might not be exactly what I want, but I KNOW I can find something! What are your attributes and talents? What type of work are you good at? What is it you LIKE to do?

The truth is....it SOUNDS like you need to be looking for something else anyway. Even in a bad economic environment, if my boss told me something like that, I don't wanna work for him anyway.

Just remember that YOU are in charge of your own destiny....not your boss, certainly not some union. As Yogi Berra said, "when you come to a fork in the road, take it."

Hope this helps.....Good luck, man.

Edited March 20, 2009 by roadhawg

[E St. Kruiser50]

Hey Willy

I'm retired now, but over a span of 40 years, and several economic down turns, I've learned some important life lessons, especially when you have a family.

The care for your family is your #1 concern. Swallowing your pride and doing what's necessary to keep your job, and providing for your family, while looking for another job, is what I always did.

As other's said here, work hard, do a good job, so you can be proud of your work and yourself, don't take how you're treated personal, as your company is trying to "SURVIVE", just like you are, and feel the pressure just like you do.

Try to put yourself in their place, and it's O.K. to talk about how you feel, like you've done here, but don't become a whinner and complainer, as that attitude just ruins your own life, and makes life miserable for those around you that you love.

And remember Willy, a job is the means to an end, not the end in itself - dave

( What that means is, some people make their job their whole life because that's all they choose to have. Don't get caught in that trap, as you will miss all the rest that life has to offer - SAD CHOICE )

Edited March 20, 2009 by Treehugger Dave

[Harry P.]

Well, I figure I might as well add my 2 cents here...

First of all, given the economic times, you're lucky to even HAVE a job. There are millions of people unemployed right now (unemployment is currently around 8% and climbing). Many companies are in trouble, and layoffs/cutbacks are their only chance for survival.

As fas as your company being "evil", think about this: ANY company, no matter what the product or service, exists for only one reason: to make money! If a company can't make money, they go out of business. (or now they get a government bailout ).

Your company is reassigning you not because they're "evil" or because they want to screw you over... they're doing it because it's in their best interest, financially, to do so. No company exists to harass or screw over their own employees... that would be counter-productive and harmful to the company itself. Your choice is to either accept the situation, or go elsewhere. Sorry if that sounds uncaring, but it's the reality of the situation.

Your personal needs (daycare schedule, etc.) are not really the company's first priority. Their first priority is their own continued success. Some companies can acommodate their employee's personal needs to some extent, other's don't... or can't.

Finally, George mentioned something about companies considering their employees "work whores" or something like that. My take on that is this: the company had a job opening. You accepted the job and the terms that the company offered you. It was your choice to accept (or reject) that job... nobody held a gun to your head. Your obligation to the company is to do the job they hired you to do, and their obligation to you is to pay you for your work at the rate agreed upon. That's the extent of the "contract" between employer and employee. If the situation, for whatever reason, changes to the point that it's no longer acceptable to you, for example, a pay cut, you have a decision to make: accept the new terms or move on. You can't blame the company for doing what it has to do to remain a viable company. Let's face it... if they go under, ALL the employees (and owners) would be out of work. They aren't cutting your pay because they are "evil", they're doing what they have to do to stay afloat in the current economic situation. I'm sure you're not the only employee affected.

Times are tough. People are going to have to make tough decisions. I hope things work out for you.

[cruzn]

Well, I figure I might as well add my 2 cents here...

First of all, given the economic times, you're lucky to even HAVE a job. There are millions of people unemployed right now (unemployment is currently around 8% and climbing). Many companies are in trouble, and layoffs/cutbacks are their only chance for survival.

Times are tough. People are going to have to make tough decisions. I hope things work out for you.

Well at least You STILL have a Job..

I was with the last company I worked for for 6 years..

I was a Machinis, a operator, a CNC Programmer. assembler a set Up perosn..etc..

One that they could come to and ask any time any day to go to this dept and help Out..

In Nov.. I was asked to be one of the first to go out on Lay offs. (20 Total)

well since then They have let go 40 More people. ( this all On the Manufactiring floor).

I understand Your position But Try getting told that you have to go out the door and not have any say in it.. I wish they would have re-assigned me to another job , even with lower pay.

Al least I would have benefits like Medical and other perks from the Job.

Good Luck..

[MrObsessive]

The sad thing about all this fellas is that this is just the tip of the iceberg! I hate to be a downer, but I don't see a bottom to all this just yet.

The company I work for had just told us the other day that there won't be any more layoffs "for now". Problem is though, I get to see what's comin' down the pike and I don't see a heck of a lot of work to keep us busy without more forced/mandatory furloughs, vacation cuts, cut in salary etc.

Yes I'm glad to be working at the moment at what I'm doing........but I'm taking things one day/week at a time.

Hate to be a pessimist, but I foresee a looooooong, hot, terrible summer ahead..............

[Jantrix]

I'll agree with what most have said. I'm in a production facitity for one of the biggest companies in the world (J&J) and they have already laid off 80 in my facility and every last temp in the building. Production people are being spread out all over the facility to fill the temp slots as we are shutting down production lines due to decreased sales. They are doing this to keep the trained people in place for when the economy swings up again. Sounds like your company is trying to do this for you. Like Harry said, better to be paid less and have a job, than no job. Eventually things will swing back and things will go back to normal. The trick is to stay employed until then.

However all that being said, it can't hurt to put a fresh resume' together and update your resume' on Monster.com.

[samdiego]

I was layed off two days before Xmas because I was one of the more expensive guys in the shop ( high end signage and public art stuff). I've had it up to here with the attitude that if you own a business, no matter what size, you should get as rich as posssible as soon as possible. I'm sick of hearing about their new cars and houses and trips, but they can't afford high quality workers. And they wonder why things go south when they try to get by with a bunch of low-wage rookies. Unions are a joke, Just an excuse for a few people to make more money from other's labor. 100 years ago they may have been neccesary, but not today, Detroit is finding that out now. my very expensive union did zip for me 7 years ago in a dispute that cost me a 9 year position, completely ignoring my excellent job performance over the course of those years.

I got a call Monday asking for help at a shop I was in a few years ago. It just happened to be for more money than the job I just lost, but I would have leapt regardless. The market for what I do is completely in the toilet in So Cal.

Anyway, I'd suck it up if I were you and I'm as prideful as they come. A bird in the hand, my friend, a bird in the hand.

Of course nothing prevents you from scouting around while you are still with income. A $4 an hour loss?! Ouch. But these are the worst times I've ever seen. Good luck to you.

Wow, this is the most angry post I've ever done.

Edited March 21, 2009 by samdiego

[Willy Survive]

Thanks for so many replies guys. I appreciate each and every one of you taking the time to respond to this post. I understand I'm gonna have to swallow my pride and live off of macaroni and cheese for a while. As far as the kids being dropped off at daycare all of the answers are no. I don't know anyone in this entire town. It's roughly 60 miles from my parents and my wifes dad is handicapped (the main reason we moved to this little Podunk town) and unable to get into the daycare (steps). I'd love to find another one that maybe opens a little earlier But the company my wife works for owns the daycare and they pay half. It sucks to say this and I know I'm gonna make some of you mad but a layoff would be welcome for me right now. With unemployment benefits being extended for up wards of 2 years per claim. And yes I know thats certainly not going to help the economy at all. Not my ideal situation but it would actually be a little easier to provide for my family. Yeah I know thats a crappy thing to say but thats the way it is. And I do know the economy sucks right now but it seems like my company is using it as an excuse. Apparently money is OK when they take their $1000, four hour power lunches every Friday. Yes I've been to one so I know from first hand experience. Harry, I agree that the companies continued success is their number 1 priority. But I don't think I should have to sacrifice myself to financial ruin to make them money. So after a lot of thought I've come to a decision that may be a little hard at first but hopefully it'll work out in the end. If I've learned one thing from this it's that apparently I don't have the balls to be a plant manager. Especially if it means looking a loyal employee in the eyes and saying the things that were said to me. Thanks again guys. Time for ORGANIZATION.

[James Flowers]

You have not said what options your wife might have at her job. Since they pay part of the daycare bill, maybe they would work with and let her take the kids to daycare. Have you tried local churches ,community centers even you local Welfare Office for other daycare help? I would not give up a job for unemployment benefits or a chance of getting fired. You never recover what you lose by not having a job.

[Willy Survive]

You have not said what options your wife might have at her job. Since they pay part of the daycare bill, maybe they would work with and let her take the kids to daycare. Have you tried local churches ,community centers even you local Welfare Office for other daycare help? I would not give up a job for unemployment benefits or a chance of getting fired. You never recover what you lose by not having a job.

She works midnights 10:45PM til 8:45AM about a half an hour away. Never thought about churches or anything like that. Thanks for the tip I'll look into it.

[mageckman]

Willy, I feel for ya man. I too, work for Park Ohio Industries. They have a tendency of hiring either idiots or A-holes as management. I'm being polite when I cal them that, as we have other words and names for them in my plant. Our plant just went on lock-down. No more going to our cars or outside during our breaks. It's starting to seem more like a prison camp than a work-place. Plant morale as well as quality is deteriorating at a fast pace.

Basically when dealing with this company you have 2 choices, suck it up and do what they want, or quit and find another job. Good luck with the second option around here, jobs are scarce. All the companies around here have been laying off or hiring all the illegal aliens they can. I'm lookin myself to get away from this company. The only good thing I can say about this company is that they are not a union shop. If they were a union shop, they woulda closed the doors already. The unions have had their day and they have run the country into the ground.

Again Willy, I feel for ya, as I am dealin with some of the same crooks you are. Good luck with whatever ya decide.

Mageckman