Intellectual property, etc.

[TJOnline]

Hi everyone.  As a boy, I was an avid model builder, everything from cars to spaceships, so I feel at home here.  I've just finished designing a 1/25 scale mechanical model, about 25 or so parts for which I have STL (part) files.  Not a car, per se, but within that realm.  I want to protect intellectual property rights for it.  I will mold and cast parts for it to make an initial working demo or two or ten.  Ultimately, I may seek to license the design to a manufacturer to make and sell it, either a model kit or an assembled toy or both.  I'm interested in how manufacturers of such models protect their intellectual property for their designs.  Utility patent?  Design patent?  And I'm greedy for advice and experience to lead me on.  I'd really like to find some example of the intellectual property protection of, for example, a typical model car.  Thanks much!

[Ace-Garageguy]

Part of my past professional life involved researching, preparing drawings, and writing patent applications without lawyers.

For the very first one I did, which was successful, by the way, I used the book below as a guide. The info in it is all true and correct, and if nothing else, it's an excellent overview of the terms and processes and paperwork involved.

If you're serious, it's easily worth the 40 bucks.

https://store.nolo.com/products/patent-it-yourself-pat.html

Edited February 23, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[TJOnline]

Thanks, Bill.  I may well take your advice and buy the book.  So far, I've just looked over sample patent apps and drawings as a guide.  Although you've already gone above and beyond, would you be willing to take a quick look at one or two of my drawings and maybe a paragraph or two from my application text?  I'd have to ask that you not disclose anything, but I wouldn't show it all for obvious reasons.  Perfectly fine if you'd rather not.  Thanks much.

BTW, if you like to collect wisdoms, I recently found some from my hero, Einstein, that I never expected to see.  Those are quality anecdotes.  I like your own.  Particularly Robert the Bruce's.  That's the same Robert in Braveheart, I assume.  https://youtu.be/VxE-1j17BMQ

If you're interested in getting back into the patent application business or you still do that on the side, and you can work in Blender to make drawings of parts for customers, I'm learning how to customize how Blender renders its drawings for more perfect results.  Looking for ways to pay you back barter style, if I can tap a bit of your expertise.

Edited February 24, 2024 by TJOnline
Added comment and picture

[slusher]

Welcome aboard the forum, Ted!

[Bugatti Fan]

Patents and copyrights.

I would imagine a very expensive legal nightmare of you ever have to litigate to defend your intellectual rights on patents and copyright.

[stitchdup]

I dont know if its the same in america but in the uk we have whats called a poor mans patent. what this involves is getting all your info about your item gathered together and then you put it in a an envelope and post it to yourself in registered mail that must be signed for. You save this envelope and never open it until you need to prove something is your own designs. the reason for doing it this way is the post office then have a record of when you sent it to yourself, and the post office in most countries is owned by the government so it becomes an official government document of proof. obviously if you open the letter your proof fails unless it only opened in court. my mum did this when she made greetings cards and her designs got nicked

[TJOnline]

As opposed to no protection at all, Bugatti.  Stitchdup, I've heard of that.  Or one could have the application notarized, so at least you could prove in court that you were the first to invent, even if you aren't first to file.  Said poor man can file a provisional utility patent for only $60 (if you qualify for micro entity status) and renew it yearly if necessary while you begin your quest, which allows you to add 'patent pending' to advertising of your invention and you can keep the application itself hidden.  But of course, the model itself is rather easy to reverse engineer.  A non-provisional patent can be had for as little as $200.  Non-disclosure agreements between you and someone you want to interest in manufacturing or licensing your patent are common.

Note that I'm not a lawyer and this is not qualified legal advice.

https://www.uspto.gov/patents/basics/apply/utility-patent

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, stitchdup said:

I dont know if its the same in america but in the uk we have whats called a poor mans patent...

https://www.goldsteinpatentlaw.com/what-is-poor-mans-patent/

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 2/23/2024 at 8:12 PM, TJOnline said:

Thanks, Bill.  I may well take your advice and buy the book.  So far, I've just looked over sample patent apps and drawings as a guide.  Although you've already gone above and beyond, would you be willing to take a quick look at one or two of my drawings and maybe a paragraph or two from my application text?  I'd have to ask that you not disclose anything, but I wouldn't show it all for obvious reasons.  Perfectly fine if you'd rather not.  Thanks much.

PM me.

I don't have time to get involved in anything else right now, as I'm finishing up my last two client jobs here, while packing and getting the logistics worked out for moving my shop and home and cars to Arizona...but I could take a quick look. 

I'd be glad to sign a non-disclosure agreement, naturally.

[TJOnline]

Thanks, Ace.  My own issue at the moment is just perfecting drawings.  I work in Blender with Blend files, but I think one could work in Blender with STLs too.  Do you work with any modeling tools to produce drawings?  I did find a way to exclude lines (my primary aim) from drawings.  Including them is relatively easy.  Excluding them more difficult.  I plan to exclude any with the solution below.  Can't both include and exclude in Blender as I understand it.  So, I'll do the including with Blender's Grease Pencil Line Art tool.  Following is the easiest possible process to exclude, as far as I can tell:

https://blenderartists.org/t/quickest-way-to-add-and-remove-edges-to-a-freestyle-render/1517467

 

Edited February 25, 2024 by TJOnline

[Chris 422]

Welcome TJ.?

[Carmak]

I work for a smaller med device company that is owned by a significantly larger company. I have been in new product development for 30+ years, and I am on a dozen or so patents. I have been involved in defending a patent legally. On one occasion a person used my own drawings (shared under a confidentiality agreement) to patent something I designed and already had a patent for.

A patent or copyright is of little value unless you have a team of lawyers to defend it. Even our large parent company occasionally decides it’s not worth defending a patent. We don’t even try if the infringement is in China or parts of the former Soviet block. Even in America it’s tough.

Watch the movie “Flash of Genius” which is about the person that invented delay wipers and had them stolen by Ford. Seriously, watch it.

I am not trying to be a grump, I just want to be pragmatic and possibly save you the time and cost involved in filing and maintaining a patent.

[TJOnline]

Thanks, Carmak.  I value your experience and advice.  But let me guess.  In the movie, it being a movie, the inventor prevailed in the end.  Right?  Well... sorta.

https://thehustle.co/windshield-wiper-inventor-robert-kearns#:~:text=He constructed prototypes in his,Then%2C Ford stole his idea.

Edited May 8, 2024 by TJOnline
Addition of a link

[Zippi]

Welcome to the site Ted.  

[Rattlecan Dan]

Welcome TJ. Hope you will enjoy the forum.

[Carmak]

On 5/8/2024 at 6:28 AM, TJOnline said:

Thanks, Carmak.  I value your experience and advice.  But let me guess.  In the movie, it being a movie, the inventor prevailed in the end.  Right?  Well... sorta.

https://thehustle.co/windshield-wiper-inventor-robert-kearns#:~:text=He constructed prototypes in his,Then%2C Ford stole his idea.

I would not call it a typical Hollywood happy ending. He wins a court case for a fraction of the value after decades of fighting, losing his family and destroying his life.

I am really not trying to sound like a grump  

[TJOnline]

Curious parallels in history.  Kearns eventually made tens of millions for the revolutionary idea of making a wiper blade wait a few seconds before wiping some more, put his idea in a little box (and invented some other cool things like the grease-dispensing hair comb), and lost his wife because he was too busy.  Whereas, Einstein took home only tens of THOUSANDS in cash and Nobel prizes (for inventing the photoelectric effect), put NEWTON in a little box (and invented some other cool things like general relativity), and PAID his wife to leave because he was ALSO too busy.  At least they both got a movie.  But Kearns was the main character in his movie.  And Einstein only got a MOMENT in someone ELSE's movie.  And neither wound up controlling their own inventions.

 

Edited May 15, 2024 by TJOnline