Coming Soon from Atomic City's JoHan line of new kits

[Can-Con]

4 hours ago, Dave Darby said:

I must be in the minority then. I love that old tool style stuff. I don't need a 100 piece chassis with detailed suspension. I rarely flip my builds upside down.  I want accurate looking old school subject matter. With lots of options and extra parts. And that is where Johan and AMT shine. That's probably why Round2 gets most of my money.  I also know how much new tools cost. There are too many modelers that are only assemblers these days. I was kit bashing and making my own stuff when I was 13. It's amazing what you can do with a set of pin drills and some evergreen plastic. When I see grown men complain about kits not falling together, or not being detailed enough, it chaps my hide. Not to be mean, but those guys need to break out some craftsmanship and creativity, or switch to jigsaw puzzles. Everybody wants instant gratification. I dunno, maybe blame the video games?

Give that man a harrumph. 👍

[Justin Porter]

5 hours ago, Dave Darby said:

I must be in the minority then. I love that old tool style stuff. I don't need a 100 piece chassis with detailed suspension. I rarely flip my builds upside down.  I want accurate looking old school subject matter. With lots of options and extra parts. And that is where Johan and AMT shine. That's probably why Round2 gets most of my money.  I also know how much new tools cost. There are too many modelers that are only assemblers these days. I was kit bashing and making my own stuff when I was 13. It's amazing what you can do with a set of pin drills and some evergreen plastic. When I see grown men complain about kits not falling together, or not being detailed enough, it chaps my hide. Not to be mean, but those guys need to break out some craftsmanship and creativity, or switch to jigsaw puzzles. Everybody wants instant gratification. I dunno, maybe blame the video games?

Anyone who claims video games offer instant gratification never actually attempted to beat one. Have you ever engaged with the speed-running community? Or guilds of online RPG players who sink years of time into co-ordinated campaigns with other players? Or tournament fighting game players? 

Or are you just basing that off of "I put a quarter into Space Invaders this one time and it wasn't my thing."

More to the point, frankly, the "modelers not assemblers" line is about as tired as they come. Yes, our hobby has had its Augie Hiscanos and its Gerald Wingroves and other true artisans. But choosing a badly engineered kit as the basis for your build doesn't automatically make you the Bernini of polystyrene. It's a weird WEIRD behavior to naysay people who say "You know, this product makes the hobby more enjoyable and more accessible for more people. Why don't we do products like this more often?" on the grounds of "Because if they don't do the work I do they aren't as good at enjoying themselves as me."

[Radretireddad]

4 hours ago, Stef said:

As much as I loved all the great new high-end stuff put out in the 90s and beyond, I've since developed a deep respect for and reverence of nostalgia.

Hear, hear Stef! I too have come to enjoy spending time carefully correcting and building vintage kits. I was once on a tear to kit bash every vintage kit I could match with a modern donor, but with the current price of kits, the careful building of a vintage kit to preserve its historicity has become more important to me. Rebuilding the old kits I had in my youth is like having an old friend returned to me.

[Dave Darby]

2 hours ago, Justin Porter said:

Anyone who claims video games offer instant gratification never actually attempted to beat one. Have you ever engaged with the speed-running community? Or guilds of online RPG players who sink years of time into co-ordinated campaigns with other players? Or tournament fighting game players? 

Or are you just basing that off of "I put a quarter into Space Invaders this one time and it wasn't my thing."

More to the point, frankly, the "modelers not assemblers" line is about as tired as they come. Yes, our hobby has had its Augie Hiscanos and its Gerald Wingroves and other true artisans. But choosing a badly engineered kit as the basis for your build doesn't automatically make you the Bernini of polystyrene. It's a weird WEIRD behavior to naysay people who say "You know, this product makes the hobby more enjoyable and more accessible for more people. Why don't we do products like this more often?" on the grounds of "Because if they don't do the work I do they aren't as good at enjoying themselves as me."

I don't pick kits based on how they are engineered. I pick them based on the subject matter. Last I knew, if you wanted a 60 Plymouth,  Johan is the only game in town. Nobody is going to invest Tamiya level money to tool up a high tech version either. But Round 2 has been blessing us with 60 and 63 Ford F100s  64 Chevelles, and the like. You don't have to be an Augie Hiscano or Gerald Wingrove to develop patience and craftsmanship.  I don't claim to be a Bernini of styrene either.  I just like to make them my own. As far as the "builder vs assembler" line getting tiring to you, I get more tired of people whining when kits don't fall together. "Such and such kit is the worst kit ever!" Yet 12 year olds back in the day managed to build them. If you want easy, get a jigsaw puzzle or some Lego blocks. Here's some of those ancient "poorly engineered" kits.

[Dave Darby]

5 hours ago, Stef said:

Dave, I do believe you and I are both onboard for snagging an Atlantis 57 Nomad and taming that beast, heh.

I'm in! As soon as I can find one.

[Can-Con]

Personally, I think there's room for both camps. 

Some people like to just turn their brains off and follow the instructions and come up with a nice looking model. 

Some of us like to take that badly engineered kit and use our brains and creativity and come up with a nice looking model.

Same destination, different road. 

I don't even look at building a Tamiya or Fujimi kit as the same as building an AMT or MPC any more then building a car as the same as building an airplane or tank.

Different models/different skill set.

,,, and don't even get my started on building a car from a pile of unrelated parts from different kits from different manufacturers.  ,well, anyone who'd do that is just nutz. 🤪

[niteowl7710]

I am always suspicious of anyone who has to spend great gouts of time professing how much fun they're having in their hobby, particularly if their idea of fun looks down on other people participating in said hobby.

As for instant gratification in video games, tell that to anyone who's been playing World of Warcraft for the past twenty years...

[sidcharles]

10 hours ago, Justin Porter said:

...  the "modelers not assemblers" . . .  if they don't do the work I do they aren't as good at enjoying themselves. . . 

i had to trim some flash And shake up some jars of paint on the last model i put together.

there were times when i thought it would never be over.

by the end, i was ready to take up fishing!

[sidcharles]

6 hours ago, Can-Con said:

. . . 

Some people like to . . . follow the instructions and come up with a nice looking model. . . . 

some rainy afternoon when you're bored, build a MiniArt kit.

 

there's a company that can turn one part into seven without so much as a sideways glance.

 

 

[Beans]

In the end, If someone uses the Jo-han name to come up with affordable models, in a subject matter I want, I will buy them.  I am cheap and price for me is important.  There are lots of really wonderful kits that I just won't pay for.  The company name is just that, a name used to generate feelings of nostalgia.  

An example is my 1:1 motorcycle.  I bought an Indian (the new versions made by Polaris after they killed the Victory brand).  Not because it was an Indian but because I got a way better deal than HD was willing to give me.  

All the talk about assemblers vs builders is silly to me.  I have just as much pride in the promo I repainted and changed the tires on as I do the models I have built with totally scratch built suspensions, kit bashed engines and detailed interiors. Do what makes you happy and let others do what makes them happy.  People will complain about anything and complaining about the complainers is still just complaining. 

Just so long as everybody keeps building they will keep making kits.

[Dave Darby]

16 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

I am always suspicious of anyone who has to spend great gouts of time professing how much fun they're having in their hobby, particularly if their idea of fun looks down on other people participating in said hobby.

Maybe I'm being misunderstood here.  Building models is indeed just for fun, and you should build to your ambition/skill/enjoyment level. There's no shame in that. I do. I don't build for contests. I build to my vision. Paint by numbers Vs freehand original, it's all good. There is no one size fits all approach. My issue is with people taking their own failures out on the kit, as though it's the kits fault, then complaining about it. Or worse, saying every kit by such and such manufacturer is junk. Facebook groups are clogged with that crowd. Tell me that doesn't get old.  It's nothing new, I remember a guy reviewing the AMT 66 Mercury for SAE, who put the cylinder heads on upside down, then complained that nothing fit. That wasn't the kits fault. The point is, buy some files and basic tools, test fit parts, and rope that horse in. And yes, some sometimes there are design flaws. Like the re-engineered  rear bumper on the AMT 57 T-Bird. Lesney/AMT raised the bumper mounting plate to accommodate the new continental kit, making it necessary to modify it if you didn't want the spare on the back. By all means call things like that out. But keep in mind that any US model company that's been around more than 60 years has been bought and sold numerous times, with different design staff, and different engineers and design philosophy.  Some of the worst kits ever tooled happened in the 1970s. That doesn't mean all of them are bad.

There is also a lack of understanding of the financial aspect of kit development/production. The model kit industry is not the behemoth money maker it was in the 60s and (to a lesser extent) in the 70s. And smaller runs translate to higher production costs, which have to be passed on to the consumer. New kit tools run roughly 150 to 200 K. Demanding a Tamiya level, highly detailed 63 Ford Galaxie, especially when there is already an existing tool of one is a losing proposition. This is why you see Round2 cloning so many of the old kits, lessor detail and all. I'm not passing judgement on anybody, I'm just saying I'm glad to have those old kits available. If someone could clone those old Johan kits, there are plenty of us older guys that would buy them. The "new" tool 58 Edsel has a ton more detail than the old annual kit, but the annual kit has a far more accurate (and better proportioned) body. 

Edited June 25 by Dave Darby

[sidcharles]

remember AMT 3 in 1  kits? 

there were actually almost too many parts to decide which ones to use.

[DJMar]

14 hours ago, Dave Darby said:

 Here's some of those ancient "poorly engineered" kits.

Totally off topic, but that T bucket is 🔥🔥🔥!

[Can-Con]

11 hours ago, sidcharles said:

some rainy afternoon when you're bored, build a MiniArt kit.

 

there's a company that can turn one part into seven without so much as a sideways glance.

 

 

I am aware of those. Amazing kits but just not my thing. 

But this is just what I mean, some people get off on building models like that right from the box. 

 

Then there's those of us who get off on taking something like this,,

 

and turning it into this,, 

 

 , , and just because I did this doesn't mean it takes ANYTHING away from someone who wants to build strait from the box.

[tim boyd]

20 hours ago, Beans said:

I have just as much pride in the promo I repainted and changed the tires on as I do the models I have built with totally scratch built suspensions, kit bashed engines and detailed interiors. Do what makes you happy and let others do what makes them happy. 

AMEN, brother!  TB 

[ncbuckeye67]

18 minutes ago, tim boyd said:

AMEN, brother!  TB 

Same here guys! Do what makes YOU happy. It's not going on someone else's shelf (unless it is, Lol).

[Luc Janssens]

20 hours ago, Dave Darby said:

Maybe I'm being misunderstood here.  Building models is indeed just for fun, and you should build to your ambition/skill/enjoyment level. There's no shame in that. I do. I don't build for contests. I build to my vision. Paint by numbers Vs freehand original, it's all good. There is no one size fits all approach. My issue is with people taking their own failures out on the kit, as though it's the kits fault, then complaining about it. Or worse, saying every kit by such and such manufacturer is junk. Facebook groups are clogged with that crowd. Tell me that doesn't get old.  It's nothing new, I remember a guy reviewing the AMT 66 Mercury for SAE, who put the cylinder heads on upside down, then complained that nothing fit. That wasn't the kits fault. The point is, buy some files and basic tools, test fit parts, and rope that horse in. And yes, some sometimes there are design flaws. Like the re-engineered  rear bumper on the AMT 57 T-Bird. Lesney/AMT raised the bumper mounting plate to accommodate the new continental kit, making it necessary to modify it if you didn't want the spare on the back. By all means call things like that out. But keep in mind that any US model company that's been around more than 60 years has been bought and sold numerous times, with different design staff, and different engineers and design philosophy.  Some of the worst kits ever tooled happened in the 1970s. That doesn't mean all of them are bad.

There is also a lack of understanding of the financial aspect of kit development/production. The model kit industry is not the behemoth money maker it was in the 60s and (to a lesser extent) in the 70s. And smaller runs translate to higher production costs, which have to be passed on to the consumer. New kit tools run roughly 150 to 200 K. Demanding a Tamiya level, highly detailed 63 Ford Galaxie, especially when there is already an existing tool of one is a losing proposition. This is why you see Round2 cloning so many of the old kits, lessor detail and all. I'm not passing judgement on anybody, I'm just saying I'm glad to have those old kits available. If someone could clone those old Johan kits, there are plenty of us older guys that would buy them. The "new" tool 58 Edsel has a ton more detail than the old annual kit, but the annual kit has a far more accurate (and better proportioned) body. 

 

Just adding my wacky train of thoughts... 😉

Also to the lower production numbers model companies today,  more so than in the past, can only make a good return on investment when incorporating from the get go several alternative versions into the overall project they're going to release over a certain period of time.

Which means clever modular tool design.

Even with cloning with improvement the past, one sees that being implemented, even when those initially were slimmer in parts content, by design, or by omitting certain components like a drive-train in the revamp.

The latter maybe can be seen in view that the industry could be preparing itself for the next step in the world of modeling, like offering certain ( due to the limitations of injection molding) difficult to tool-up without compromising detail, parts/sub-assemblies via a online 3D print platform of their own, or a joint venture between distributors or chooses outlets where modelers can buy these 3D printed items from, who knows?

IMHO interesting times ahead, so sit back and enjoy!

Cheers 

Luc.

Edited June 26 by Luc Janssens

[Dave Darby]

12 hours ago, tim boyd said:

On 6/25/2025 at 9:38 AM, Beans said:

I have just as much pride in the promo I repainted and changed the tires on as I do the models I have built with totally scratch built suspensions, kit bashed engines and detailed interiors. Do what makes you happy and let others do what makes them happy. 

Expand  

AMEN, brother!  TB 

My point was actually aimed at the complainers, not judging one building style or process over another. Take the bumps in stride, instead of damning the kit or the manufacturer. I have some builds that are just polished bare plastic. It's all good. In a way, you did make my point though. Your average Johan kit is basically an unassembled promo with an engine. The person I was responding to said that new tools have to have modern level details to be worth producing. I'd take extra options over extra complexity. 

Anyway, I'd love to see this come back.

 

 

Edited June 26 by Dave Darby

[stavanzer]

6 hours ago, Dave Darby said:

I'd take extra options over extra complexity. 

You and me both, Dave!

[Beans]

13 hours ago, Dave Darby said:

My point was actually aimed at the complainers, not judging one building style or process over another. Take the bumps in stride, instead of damning the kit or the manufacturer.

 

Point taken, and I agree.  Complainers are always going to complain.  Social media is almost entirely built on the idea of people just complaining about something or other.  As long as they have a stage, there will always be those people who rubber cement a model together, dip it in a bucket of latex house paint, then say it is the manufacturers fault for it not looking as good as all the really great looking models out there.  

I've learned to ignore the complaints, but I have a teenage daughter in the house so I get lots of practice.

[niteowl7710]

Alright I'll forge the inception point here of complaining about the people complaining about complaining...but have any of you guys who loathe the "trashing" of kits/companies actually bothered to try to engage the "complainers" to see what their actual issues are? Cause otherwise this is gatekeeping of the first order. 

Your experience, opinion, feelings don't comport with mine, ergo you're doing it wrong and all you have to say is invalid. It's like you've overlaid the discourse of politics and applied it to the hobby.

If you've been in this hobby for a long time you've probably taken for granted that for anyone new to it, or returning to it after a long time away - like so many did in 2020 - the North American automotive modeling hobby is probably the ONLY thing you can buy in the store where a new product on a shelf might in fact be really really old. Imagine going into a store to buy a TV and there's two fairly identical boxes on the shelf and so you pick the one with the flashy box that appeals to you most and instead of the flat screen you were expecting you get a 13" black and white set. Bonus you actually paid a bit more for the old thing to boot! When you go tell people - Hey I got some old "junk" TV in this box, everyone tells you it's your fault you didn't research when the TV was made the first time, and if you weren't so lazy you'd just get up and change the channels like we've always done.

[Dave Darby]

16 minutes ago, niteowl7710 said:

of kits/companies actually bothered to try to engage the "complainers" to see what their actual issues are? Cause otherwise this is gatekeeping of the first order. 

Most of these guys never go into that kind of detail. They just say "Nothing fits on this thing". Such and such's kits are all junk. Typically, it's a kit that's been around a long time, and has built successfully by both kids and adults for generations.  So the question of are you a builder or are you an assembler,  might be better articulated by the Henry Ford quote: "Don't find fault, find a remedy."

[thatz4u]

 "Don't find fault, find a remedy." How true..

[Mark C.]

4 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

Alright I'll forge the inception point here of complaining about the people complaining about complaining...but have any of you guys who loathe the "trashing" of kits/companies actually bothered to try to engage the "complainers" to see what their actual issues are? Cause otherwise this is gatekeeping of the first order. 

Your experience, opinion, feelings don't comport with mine, ergo you're doing it wrong and all you have to say is invalid. It's like you've overlaid the discourse of politics and applied it to the hobby.

If you've been in this hobby for a long time you've probably taken for granted that for anyone new to it, or returning to it after a long time away - like so many did in 2020 - the North American automotive modeling hobby is probably the ONLY thing you can buy in the store where a new product on a shelf might in fact be really really old. Imagine going into a store to buy a TV and there's two fairly identical boxes on the shelf and so you pick the one with the flashy box that appeals to you most and instead of the flat screen you were expecting you get a 13" black and white set. Bonus you actually paid a bit more for the old thing to boot! When you go tell people - Hey I got some old "junk" TV in this box, everyone tells you it's your fault you didn't research when the TV was made the first time, and if you weren't so lazy you'd just get up and change the channels like we've always done.

There’s a whole lot of assumptions going on here that I don’t want to get into.

All I will say, about my own personal opinion and nobody else’s, is that it always chafes me a little when I’m reading about a kit reissue, like for example, the recent and future Round 2 ‘clone’ kits (really excited about the upcoming Barracuda, Nomad, and Duster), and it’s something I’m really enthusiastic about, along with some other posters.  Then someone who professes to know what modellers want, shoots it down, comparing it to Hasegawa, etc. or saying that it will never sell, and that Round 2 is dumb for doing this, and the only market for it is the five posters talking about it, etc etc.

I don’t really understand the motivation to do this, unless those people really get off on being a buzz-kill, or just want to appear to be more knowledgeable than the rest of us.  Whatever it is, it annoys the heck out of me, but I usually don’t say anything about it, as people are entitled to their opinions.  I’m only adding my two cents now because it’s getting drug out and the same assertions are being made over and over.

I mean it’s fine to offer an opinion, but really it’s (literally) Round 2’s or the iterations of Jo-Han, etc., business to figure out what to produce and sell.  Our only job is to buy what we like, and let others buy what they like.  

I think what you’re talking about is what happens when people feel like they are being forced to defend why they like to build reissues or kits with simple chassis, etc., and then you’re jumping all over their defence, which is silly when you think about it.  So, yeah, it gets old… and that’s all I’m going to say about it.

[Justin Porter]

I don't feel builders have to defend why they like building certain kits at all. I don't even necessarily feel that these kits don't have a place on the market. 

What I do see is an immutable truth that new tooling makes my register go ding (Moebius Novas, Revell '71 Mustang) and clone tooling doesn't. 

There have been - I will grant - a small handful of Craftsman Plus releases that haven't held this as true. The Nova Wagon, the '68 GTO, and the '64 Malibu have genuinely been winners. I don't at all disregard that there is a market for these kits, nor do I feel that Round 2 shouldn't be fulfilling that market. Further, we also have Atlantis fulfilling the nostalgia release market with their acquisition of the Revell and Monogram back catalogs. 

Do I think there's necessarily room in the market for a third nostalgia brand marketing to nostalgia oriented customers? Not especially. My sales data tells me that the market is already slim for the two we have. A third one, operating from entirely new tooling (reverse engineered or otherwise) with an even smaller catalog of subjects than the first and second, slices up an already thin market. That being said, I can't tell nostalgia oriented customers NOT to want what they want. That's not my place. 

However, my JOB is trying to understand what casual builders buy. Casual builders are the ones who don't have basements full of previous releases of vintage kits, and aren't necessarily going to track down a Racing Champions era or Ertl era reissue of an AMT kit at a show because they know it can be grabbed for half the going MSRP of a Round 2 release (and I do mean that when we're staring down the barrel of $41.99 sticker price on the Trophy Series '49 Mercury). They're the ones who plunk down their money for a kit of a subject they like and get to play roulette with tooling ages. 

In an instance where Jo-Han came back as an injection molded plastic kit company, in regular distribution channels, it is LIKELY that they would carry a premium MSRP. That's a pretty common sense statement. That hypothetical Jo-Han would likely be even higher in price than Round 2, potentially crowding a $45-$50 price point. Whether or not they're comparable subject matter, that's still new-tool Tamiya sports car money. And I have no doubt there are likely casual builders who would still gladly plunk down $50 for a Heavenly Hearse or a '70 Rebel Machine without any idea of who Jo-Han was or what they did just because it's cool subject matter.

BUT THAT IS THE PROBLEM! 

As the MSRP's continue to climb and the base of casual builders continues to get younger as Gundam builders and racing sim players and other such hobbyists give model car building a try, they're increasingly finding that they're not getting their money's worth out of those boxes. I want the hobby to continue to grow, and expand, and evolve. I don't even necessarily want wonder kits. Think about a common as crabgrass subject like the 1970 Dodge Challenger. Now recall that we have three positively mediocre kits of it (Monogram 1/24th T/A, Lesney AMT 1/25th, Revell ex-diecast 1/25th). 

A decently modular 1/25th scale 1970/71 Challenger R/T, tooled to no higher an expectation of detail and fidelity than say the AMT/Ertl '62 Bel Air, with a target MSRP of $35.95, would be a product that would sell by the caseload and that I would happily applaud regardless if it were wearing a Revell or Fujimi or MPC or Jo-Han label on the box. That is literally ALL that I recommend instead of the nostalgia releases for the sake of the hobby at large. Give EVERYONE their money's worth and the sales will come. It's not that bizarre a concept.