AMT ‘51 Chevy 6 question?

[NOBLNG]

Does this drag version represent any real world head/induction system? They also have a dual plug distributor (12 terminals)? Any info appreciated.

Thanks, Greg.

Edit….and what is part #85 supposed to be? Thx.

Edited November 11, 2024 by NOBLNG

[Straightliner59]

I think it's a Wayne cross-flow head(?). Although the twelve plugs would have me wondering. It looks like part #85 is supposed to be a chunk of plastic! ? Sorry, sometimes I can't help myself.

[Khils]

27 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

….and what is part #85 supposed to be? Thx.

It's an extremely Weak attempt at fuel injection....& No I've never a set up like depicted for real ...(doesn't mean it hasn't been done)

My best guess at part #85 ... appears to be a belt tensioner in it's mounting  configuration.   ?

[NOBLNG]

31 minutes ago, Straightliner59 said:

I think it's a Wayne cross-flow head(?). Although the twelve plugs would have me wondering. It looks like part #85 is supposed to be a chunk of plastic! ? Sorry, sometimes I can't help myself.

Yeah, it doesn’t look like any extra spots for spark plugs on the head?

19 minutes ago, Khils said:

It's an extremely Weak attempt at fuel injection....& No I've never a set up like depicted for real ...(doesn't mean it hasn't been done)

My best guess at part #85 ... appears to be a belt tensioner in it's mounting  configuration.   ?

 

The stock setup uses the generator as a tensioner, so I don’t see why it would be necessary?

Edited November 11, 2024 by NOBLNG

[stavanzer]

Wayne 12 Port Head. Some early versions of the instruction sheet labeled it as such, IIRC.

Part of the story.

https://www.inliners.org/12_Port_Story/pt_three.html

https://www.audrainautomuseum.org/new-england-hot-rods/wayne-manufacturing-12-port-engine

 

[NOBLNG]

1 hour ago, stavanzer said:

Wayne 12 Port Head. Some early versions of the instruction sheet labeled it as such, IIRC.

Part of the story.

https://www.inliners.org/12_Port_Story/pt_three.html

https://www.audrainautomuseum.org/new-england-hot-rods/wayne-manufacturing-12-port-engine

 

Thanks. I have run across those sites. Some info on the cross flow heads, but no pics and not much info on the dual plug heads.? Oh well, it would be pretty tough to get 12 plug wires into that teeny distributor anyways.?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Part #85 would most likely be the injection pump.

A high-pressure fuel pump is required for Hilborn-style mechanical injection, helpful if the pump runs faster as the engine runs faster.

https://www.hotrod.com/how-to/hrdp-1010-what-you-need-to-know-about-mechanical-fuel-injection/

Though mechanical pumps are often driven directly by the cam, or a toothed belt, they can be driven by a properly configured V-belt setup as well, as they're not "timed" like, say, a 911 injection pump.

 

Edited November 12, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy
TYPO

[Ace-Garageguy]

35 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

 ...no pics...on the dual plug heads...

Granted there's not much, but I posted this on the thread linked above...

Edited November 12, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[tim boyd]

As Bill said, part #85 was intended to represent a fuel pump for the injector system.  This engine option was merchandised as a "Fisher 12-port cylinder head" on the original issue c. 1975 1/2 box art., and part #85 was called out as "pump" on the original issue assembly sheet.   

The Fisher/Wayne cylinder head story is way too long and complicated to describe here.    But some experts may say, with some apparent justification, that the Fisher setup shown in the '51 Bel Air was actually designed for the applicable to the GMC six banger, not the equivalent Chevy six as in the box contents.  TB.  

Edited November 12, 2024 by tim boyd

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, tim boyd said:

As Bill said, part #85 was intended to represent a fuel pump for the injector system.  This engine option was merchandised as a "Fisher 12-port cylinder head" on the original issue c. 1975 1/2 box art., and part #85 was called out as "pump" on the original issue assembly sheet.   

The Fisher/Wayne cylinder head story is way too long and complicated to describe here.    But some experts may say, with some apparent justification, that the Fisher setup shown in the '51 Bel Air was actually designed for the applicable to the GMC six banger, not the equivalent Chevy six as in the box contents.  TB.  

Yes. The larger displacement GMC 6 looks a lot like its stovebolt little brother, but is physically larger...about an inch or so longer IIRC.

The GMC engine can be swapped into the Chevy chassis without too much trouble (by a competent fabricator), and I seem to recall a '37 Chevy featured in one of the hot-rod mags when I was young, running a GMC 6 on the street, and setting a bunch of drag records in its time.

FWIW, this is what the GMC version of the kit engine looks like with individual exhaust pipes.

Note the location of the distributor in this photo and the 12-plug engine in the B&W photo above...different from the location on the smaller Chebby.

PS: Save that 12-wire distributor cap for something else, as there were so few 12-plug heads made, the odds of ever seeing one in reality are infinitesimally small.

Edited November 12, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy
TYPO

[Ace-Garageguy]

Vid of the Chevrolet version of the 12-port head, distributor on the other side, different valve cover design.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

[NOBLNG]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Part #85 would most likely be the injection pump.

A high-pressure fuel pump is required for Hilborn-style mechanical injection, helpful if the pump runs faster as the engine runs faster.

https://www.hotrod.com/how-to/hrdp-1010-what-you-need-to-know-about-mechanical-fuel-injection/

Though mechanical pumps are often driven directly by the cam, or a toothed belt, they can be driven by a properly configured V-belt setup as well, as they're not "timed" like, say, a 911 injection pump.

 

   Great info, thanks for that link Bill. Chevrolet only made two ohv straight sixes correct? The  “stovebolt” from ‘29 to’37 with an updated version from ‘37 to ‘62. And then the newer, lighter 194/230/250/292 from ‘62 to ‘01. 
   I would guess the engine in the AMT ‘60 Fleetside would be the same basic engine as the ‘51 BelAir then? The yellow GMC engine pictured above then is a totally different engine than either of the Chevrolet versions?

[Ace-Garageguy]

13 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

   Great info, thanks for that link Bill. Chevrolet only made two ohv straight sixes correct? The  “stovebolt” from ‘29 to’37 with an updated version from ‘37 to ‘62. And then the newer, lighter 194/230/250/292 from ‘62 to ‘01. 
   I would guess the engine in the AMT ‘60 Fleetside would be the same basic engine as the ‘51 BelAir then? The yellow GMC engine pictured above then is a totally different engine than either of the Chevrolet versions?

Yes. Similar in layout, some engineering, and general appearance, but a totally different engine.

[NOBLNG]

Cool video on the GMC 302 six.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MRPg2yWxS0&t=192s

[tim boyd]

One other point I have noticed....the Wayne heads on the Chevy result in the injectors being mounted at a slight upward angle, while it appears that the Fisher heads on the GMC block are routed outward at a straight horizontal angle exactly perpendicular to the cylinder bores....

BTW...when I pulled out the T295 box art a couple of days ago and re-read the side panel text caption, I noted (for the first time ever!) that it referenced the GMC six....it said (my highlight in italics) "One of the most successful racing conversions for the Chevy or "Jimmy" six is included in this kit - the famous Fisher 12-port cylinder head."   

As an aside, during my limited exposure to the AMT engineering department in the mid 1970s I took away a strong impression that they all were serious auto enthusiasts.  But even with that, time has proven they didn't always get 100% of the details correct.  For example, the fuel injection manifold they added for the Y-block in the 1972-sh release of the '57 Ford Fairlane kit with the salt flats box top imagery was completely wrong for that application....as one of you correctly pointed out to me more than a few years ago!   

Best...TB

Edited November 13, 2024 by tim boyd