The Value of a Thunderbird (1958-1966)

[Ace-Garageguy]

25 minutes ago, bobss396 said:

With the Birds, by 1961 they were getting quite complex. Lots of luck with a plug & play harness that is not specific to that car. Close enough will not hack it.

I build custom harnesses, and install, adapt, modify, and augment generics like Painless and American Autowire, retrofit late-model engine harnesses, or standalones for swaps, and integrate hardware and ECMs that were never intended to work together.

It's not cheap, but it's not rocket science either. I've been at it since I was 18.

[Carmak]

My first car about 40 years ago was a 62 T-bird. I have owned a half dozen drivers and a couple dozen parts car 61-66 T-birds. I was daily driving a 63 when I dated my wife (35 years ago).

I think the biggest thing holding them back value wise is that they just don't work well with the performance or sporty performance look. You can put mags on a 63 Rambler 4dr and get a sporty performance look. T-birds really look better as luxo sleds.

T-birds also have some quirky mechanical and design issues (some are Ford things, and some are T-bird unique). My favorite issues include: hydraulic wipers, exhaust manifold leaks, exhaust manifolds very very close to the inner fenders, due to packaging engine swaps more challenging, crappy Ford wiring bullet connectors, dash that must pealed like an onion rather than removed as a unit, very heavy for it's size, sections of galvanized exterior steel that resist being painted, no room for dual reservoir master cylinder, shackle mounts that really rust, and lastly you need to know the exact day your car was built since Ford loved changing things mid-year.

I have a loft full of T-bird buckets and back seats (the wrap around ones) but currently no drivers. 

[ChrisBcritter]

Keep your eyes peeled - solid and running CA car just sold at an estate auction a couple days ago for $3000:

More info and photos here: https://bid.bidfastandlast.com/ui/auctions/131190/18045357

I imagine the wheels and the old repaint kept the bids down. It was originally Nautilus Gray metallic with a red vinyl interior.

[espo]

Interesting junk on the web site. 

[Falcon Ranchero]

17 hours ago, Carmak said:

to know the exact day your car was built

I know my Great Uncle’s ‘65 Bird was first registered October 8th 1964 but the first owner got the car July 6th 1965 so I would assume October 64 was when the car was built. 
 

Also the wipers in that car, they are operated by a lever on the dash that you pull close or push away for the speed, but he has a folded piece of paper in there keepin the lever back because he said it’s spring loaded so without the paper jammed in there the wipers come on full throttle. Not really sure why it’s like that; never asked him

[StevenGuthmiller]

I get all of the posts about particular or specific Thunderbird issues, but in my estimation, that has nothing to do with the value of the cars.

Every car from that era has it’s own unique, or brand specific issues.

My ‘69 Grand Prix has various foibles specific to Pontiac’s, as well as specific Grand Prix problems, much as many modern cars often have.

So I don’t believe that values are low just because of mechanical or electrical issues, all of which are ultimately addressed throughout the course of a full restoration anyway.

What keeps prices low, is just the perception of the car itself.

My ‘69 Pontiac Grand Prix has fallen into basically the same “value” category as the Thunderbirds for a long time, and it’s only in very recent years that they have begun to become more popular, and by extension, more valuable.

Granted, I can understand how the “unavailability” of parts for restorations might enter into the equation for people possibly not wanting to get involved, and therefore holding values low, but popularity drives the aftermarket and prompts production of the parts needed to aid a restoration, but I still feel it’s more about the current appeal of the car itself than it is about how crappy the car is, or how difficult it is to restore.

 

 

 

Steve

[Tabbysdaddy]

Not the best condition, but not horrible. Only two grand.

https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/d/kissimmee-1965/7809097339.html

[rattle can man]

In the end it boils down to 1) demand and 2) what value a person places on it.

And as stated before, a bad repair or restoration on one does not mean all examples will have issues. you get what you pay for 

[sfhess]

When I was looking to purchase my first car in 1973, there were a lot of 64-66 Thunderbirds for sale for about $500.  Most of them had at least one inoperable power window, and the foam in the driver's armrests was ripped out where you would grab to pull the door shut.  I ended up getting a full-sized Ford.

Edited December 11, 2024 by sfhess

[johnyrotten]

With any vehicle project,I've learned to buy the best condition one you can afford. The "500 dollar deal" isn't so much of one after factor in all the additional work,time and cash to get it to an acceptable state. I deal mostly with motorcycles, its harder to hide the "sins", but people do."basket cases" can seem like a deal till you realize half the engine is rust, missing, or beyond saving. I've rebuilt 5-6 amf era harley sportsters, and the value is quickly exceeded by the cost if one is not careful, or able to do the work yourself. 

[Falcon Ranchero]

4 hours ago, johnyrotten said:

With any vehicle project,I've learned to buy the best condition one you can afford. The "500 dollar deal" isn't so much of one after factor in all the additional work,time and cash to get it to an acceptable state. I deal mostly with motorcycles, its harder to hide the "sins", but people do."basket cases" can seem like a deal till you realize half the engine is rust, missing, or beyond saving. I've rebuilt 5-6 amf era harley sportsters, and the value is quickly exceeded by the cost if one is not careful, or able to do the work yourself. 

I know with my Great Uncle's '65 'Bird, he paid $300 for it in 1987 and he was I believe the fourth owner, but he usually refers to himself as the second driver, because by the time the car was sold to the second owner, it was in rough shape and needed restoaration that didn't happen. Then passed to the third owner; left it on his front lawn; never did anything with it, and then my uncle got it and he actually restored the car by 1988, and became the second owner to actually drive the thing. It wasn't really a basket case; there's a photo of it when he got it before restoration, but it was pretty crusty.

[johnyrotten]

4 hours ago, Falcon Ranchero said:

I know with my Great Uncle's '65 'Bird, he paid $300 for it in 1987 and he was I believe the fourth owner, but he usually refers to himself as the second driver, because by the time the car was sold to the second owner, it was in rough shape and needed restoaration that didn't happen. Then passed to the third owner; left it on his front lawn; never did anything with it, and then my uncle got it and he actually restored the car by 1988, and became the second owner to actually drive the thing. It wasn't really a basket case; there's a photo of it when he got it before restoration, but it was pretty crusty.

1987 is right around if not just before the time frame where home restoration and that "side" of the car hobby really took off. There were deals almost everywhere. These almost all start as discarded,  used up daily vehicles people no longer wanted or could use. Your great Uncle's car was approaching 30.I was six years old. Fast forward to today,  and those same people now have nostalgia, and the means/skills to bring them back. I recall cutting up fairly nice 4 doors and wagons for Floorplans to save coupes in my teens. Very few models of any manufacturer were actually coveted from the start. Those cars today make up the majority of what you see in magazines/car shows and I aftermarket support. I personally like that style of t birds, they look different enough to stand out, and I'm not really a "ford" car guy, I do love their trucks. 1980's and back.

[espo]

7 hours ago, Falcon Ranchero said:

I know with my Great Uncle's '65 'Bird, he paid $300 for it in 1987 and he was I believe the fourth owner, but he usually refers to himself as the second driver, because by the time the car was sold to the second owner, it was in rough shape and needed restoaration that didn't happen. Then passed to the third owner; left it on his front lawn; never did anything with it, and then my uncle got it and he actually restored the car by 1988, and became the second owner to actually drive the thing. It wasn't really a basket case; there's a photo of it when he got it before restoration, but it was pretty crusty.

Nathen, I don't know if you remember the info I sent on the Mecum Auction here in Kansas City, but an update on the Thunderbird that I mentioned for you to look at. I know it isn't exactly relevant since it is far from you. My point was to show you an option to consider in your quest for a car similar to the one your uncle had. The car sold for $11,000 and that might be a lot more than you're comfortable spending, but the point is this is a car that is like new and looks to need nothing done to it to enjoy it. As others have pointed out buying a car that is inexpensive but needs a complete redo would cost you more than one already done in many cases. You can access the Mecum web site by giving them your e-mail address and you have to make up a password for yourself in order to log on to get any information on lots both sold or going to auction in the future. The only downside, if it is a downside, they will send you info on future auctions and sometimes on a feature car or truck. This would be no investment on your part and give you free info on lots that you may us as a comparison to what you're looking at near you. Just an idea for you to consider. 

[Sledsel]

Prices have bounced around a lot in the last handful of years. Barrett Jackson dreamers start high but usually drop to more realistic prices. Good deals are there for sure though.

[gtx6970]

On 12/2/2024 at 4:07 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

It’s just a simple matter of what’s popular or desirable at a particular moment in time.

That’s pretty much it.

Nobody is ever going to convince me that it’s because T-Birds were junkier than anything else from the same era.

I doubt that the T-birds were any worse than any other Ford of the period.  They all shared a large portion of mechanical and electrical components.

Now, you might be able to convince me that Fords are junk in general, but that’s irrelevant to this discussion. 😁

 

 

 

Steve

THIS ^^^^^

 

 

And I wouldn't exactly call the early 60s Birds  " Cheap " 

[Mark]

These particular cars do have certain issues that can keep the value down.  The exhaust manifold deal for example.  Not easy for the average guy to handle, expensive to pay someone else to fix.  The quick flip artists won't want to bother with something like that because they want something they can half-ass together cheaply and quickly.  All those people steering clear = low demand.  On the other hand, those who are capable of fixing such an issue, and are patient enough to work their way through it, can get themselves a good deal on one of these cars.

With the average guy, they just want something to cruise around in, and will avoid what they might think will need a lot of work.  That's where the flip farms do their business, preying on those folks.  It's only after the sale when those buyers start seeing expensive issues.

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 12/11/2024 at 12:27 PM, johnyrotten said:

...I recall cutting up fairly nice 4 doors and wagons for Floorplans to save coupes in my teens...

Boy, that brings back a memory that makes me cringe now.

I used the rear floor from a '66 Ford Country Squire with a 428 and disc brakes to fab a ribbed trunk floor for a client's '37 Plymouth.

Sure would like to have that old wagon now, but it was worthless back then (it was given to me with no brakes). Who knew?

[johnyrotten]

35 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Boy, that brings back a memory that makes me cringe now.

I used the rear floor from a '66 Ford Country Squire with a 428 and disc brakes to fab a ribbed trunk floor for a client's '37 Plymouth.

Sure would like to have that old wagon now, but it was worthless back then (it was given to me with no brakes). Who knew?

I'm in the same boat. "If I knew then what I know now"...

[Mark]

The reason the remaining examples sell for good money, is because at some point all of them were expendable.  Only the super-high-end stuff like Cobras, most Hemi cars, and the like escaped that.  GTO Judges got turned into dirt track cars, same as any other big-engine intermediate car.

The same is true with parts.  As an early teen, I assisted in cleaning out a two-car garage.  The pile at the curb included TWO big-block Chevy tri-power setups.  I'm not sure if any air cleaners were included, but at least one of the intakes had the carbs still on it.  I'm sure there were other goodies on that pile, but those intake setups stuck out in my mind.

[Sledsel]

It is true you need to have a little bit of knowledge to own one of these, I for one absolutely love ours.

[Falcon Ranchero]

1 hour ago, Sledsel said:

It is true you need to have a little bit of knowledge to own one of these, I for one absolutely love ours.

Really Nice '64; love the Cobra motor wow;

I have to admit I am quite fond of my Great Uncle's '65;  most folks compliment it on the colour.

 

[Sledsel]

50 minutes ago, Falcon Ranchero said:

Really Nice '64; love the Cobra motor wow;

I have to admit I am quite fond of my Great Uncle's '65;  most folks compliment it on the colour.

 

That color is sharp!!!!! Looks like Midnight Turquoise.... 

 

[Falcon Ranchero]

2 hours ago, Sledsel said:

Midnight Turquoise.... 

We were never actually sure what the colour was called; that sounds about right. Originally the car was dark almost navy blue but a fire accident had the car resprayed this colour. Far away it looks fantastic, but up close the age shows in cracks and bubbles and chips.

[Falcon Ranchero]

I did manage to find the photos of the car when it was originally restored in 1987-88. The first photo is what the car looked like when he got it, looks like fall 1987. The next is when body work had been done, late spring 1988. And finally the car as of fall 1988 all complete, with the original colour resprayed instead of the "midnight turquoise" paint from the above photo. You'll also notice the lack of wheel opening trim; he had found some from a '66 many years later and are now present on the car.

[bobss396]

My son's ex girlfriend, her dad has a '65 Bird that is slowly sinking back into the earth, he is not mechanically inclined, the car is exposed to the elements.

I ran into someone at a cruise night with a real nice baby blue '64 Bird. We were talking and he was floored that I work on my own cars. He was trying to get me to do work on his car. No thanks. 

Another Bird owner I met at a car show, he needed a "simple" dual master cylinder conversion done. The fly in the ointment with that is the driver-side fender strut that gets in the way. That got left off... the labor on the master and booster install alone was around $700. There is not a lot of room to fab/install new brake lines.