Flocking/ embossing powder not covering

[Hondamatic]

Id hate to make a new topic for this, so im sorry. So for years I've been trying to flock my interiors with embossing powder and it never seems to cover well. I would use this Mod Podge and brush it where i need it, and then shake the powder over it. Im also not sure if the glue layer has to be perfectly leveled (no brush marks) I cant seem to get it right and im not sure if im missing something in all these videos and posts. 

[Bainford]

I have no experience at all with mod podge, so I can't comment on its suitability for flocking. I know there are many different adhesives used for flocking. My personal favourite is Elmers white glue. I paint it generously on the areas I want to be carpeted, then sprinkle in a heavy application of the flocking medium (embossing powder). When flocking an interior tub, I roll the tub around to quite a bit to distribute the powder all over, and to try and gauge how much of it is sticking. If an area seems to be a bit bare, I maneuver the powder to the bare spot and press lightly with a finger tip to encourage it to stick. Once the glue has set, I dump out the unstuck powder for use another day. On parts that are not a tub, I paint on the glue then use a combination of methods for applying the powder such as placing the part in a catch container and pouring powder over it, rolling it around in the powder, or pressing the powder in place lightly with a finger.

In many cases it won't be necessary to get the glue perfectly smooth (free of brush marks). White glue loses most of its volume as it dries, so there will be little in the way of brush marks when done. 

A couple of handy tips; Paint the part to be flocked with a colour similar to the flocking medium beforehand. And, once the glue has dried, spray on a coat of flat or semi-gloss clear to hold the powder in place. I have a couple of builds on which I did not do this, and every time I turn the model up-side-down I get a few specs of powder on the inside of the windscreen. 

[johnyrotten]

Ive tried Elmer's glue a few times,  spotty results like above. At least it's easy clean up. Paying attention to this.

[peteski]

I have not uses embossing powder but I suspect that the problem is that the glue you are using is too thick (viscous) and too dry for the embossing powder to adhere. At least failed attempts are easy to clean up (unlike stripping paint).  Maybe try diluting the glue with some water to make it thinner, then sprinkle the powder over that. But do not make it too runny.

[johnyrotten]

2 minutes ago, peteski said:

I have not uses embossing powder but I suspect that the problem is that the glue you are using is too thick (viscous) and too dry for the embossing powder to adhere. At least failed attempts are easy to clean up (unlike stripping paint).  Maybe try diluting the glue with some water to make it thinner, then sprinkle the powder over that. But do not make it too runny.

I've tried thinning it 50% distilled water as well as straight from the bottle. Perhaps I'm too light on the glue? Haven't tried any other ratio or products ( mod podge,paint, ect). I was thinking about water-based clear,(vallejo clear varnish in the small dropper)but chemical reactions and all.

[stitchdup]

The methos Bainford desribes also works using enamel paints if they are gloss or satin. I find acrylic and matt enamels dont give any working time

[StevenGuthmiller]

I use Elmer’s white glue as well, and haven’t had much problem with it.

There are a few things to watch for.

Thin the glue “slightly”.

50/50 is way too much.

If I’m starting with a teaspoon of glue, a couple of drops of water is enough.

If you’re applying the glue over a solvent based paint, such as enamel, it can have the tendency to want to draw away in some areas, leaving bare spots, but if you continually brush the glue over those areas, eventually, they will remain covered.

Work in smallish areas.

Don’t try to do the entire tub floor in one shot.

The glue needs to remain wet enough to hold the powder, so if you work in too large of an area, it can begin to dry too much in some areas, causing the powder not to stick.

Find at least one place where you can “divide” the tub in half so that you are working in a small enough area to prevent drying too quickly.

Mask off areas that you do not want covered in powder, work quickly, and remove the tape immediately after the powder to prevent pulling off the glue and powder as it dries.

Remember, you can paint over embossing powder if you should choose.

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 04:48 PM by StevenGuthmiller

[Hondamatic]

1 hour ago, peteski said:

I have not uses embossing powder but I suspect that the problem is that the glue you are using is too thick (viscous) and too dry for the embossing powder to adhere. At least failed attempts are easy to clean up (unlike stripping paint).  Maybe try diluting the glue with some water to make it thinner, then sprinkle the powder over that. But do not make it too runny.

Most times i thinned it with water, this time was straight, but both with similar results. Someone else said thin with isopropyl alcohol? 

[Hondamatic]

2 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I use Elmer’s white glue as well, and haven’t had much problem with it.

There are a few things to watch for.

Thin the glue “slightly”.

50/50 is way too much.

If I’m starting with a teaspoon of glue, a couple of drops of water is enough.

If you’re applying the glue over a solvent based paint, such as enamel, it can have the tendency to want to draw away in some areas, leaving bare spots, but if you continually brush the glue over those areas, eventually, they will remain covered.

Work in smallish areas.

Don’t try to do the entire tub floor in one shot.

The glue needs to remain wet enough to hold the powder, so if you work in too large of an area, it can begin to dry too much in some areas, causing the powder not to stick.

Find at least one place where you can “divide” the tub in half so that you are working in a small enough area to prevent drying too quickly.

Mask off areas that you do not want covered in powder, work quickly, and remove the tape immediately after the powder to prevent pulling off the glue and powder as it dries.

Remember, you can paint over embossing powder if you should choose.

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

You! Your models are what makes me wanna do better! I watch these videos and they just say to glue and toss on the powder, but thank you for going more in depth. I do have off brand white glue, or you think that may be an issue too? 

[stitchdup]

6 minutes ago, Hondamatic said:

Most times i thinned it with water, this time was straight, but both with similar results. Someone else said thin with isopropyl alcohol? 

dont use alcohol, it will mess up the paint

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 minutes ago, Hondamatic said:

You! Your models are what makes me wanna do better! I watch these videos and they just say to glue and toss on the powder, but thank you for going more in depth. I do have off brand white glue, or you think that may be an issue too? 

I don’t think it will matter.

As long as it’s something with generally the same properties.

You just want something that spreads easily, covers completely, and dries hard enough to hold the powder in place.

That can be any number of things.

As someone else mentioned, paint the floor with a similar color to the powder your using.

If all goes well, you will have sufficient coverage at that point, but if not, you can always spray a flat or matte paint over the powder once the glue has completely dried.

As you can tell by a good number of my photos, I like to use a metallic powder on occasion.

It gives an increased illusion of texture and while it may look a little over the top in a close up photo, it looks about perfect to the naked eye.

 

 

Steve

[johnyrotten]

1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Thin the glue “slightly”.

50/50 is way too much.

1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Work in smallish areas.

Don’t try to do the entire tub floor in one shot.

I believe this is will solve my issues. Thanks for posting it. 

[Straightliner59]

I have always used a similarly-colored paint, for adhesive. It's worked, well.

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 minutes ago, Straightliner59 said:

I have always used a similarly-colored paint, for adhesive. It's worked, well.

The type of paint will make a big difference.

You want something that dries slowly.

 

 

Steve

[Straightliner59]

8 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

The type of paint will make a big difference.

You want something that dries slowly.

 

 

Steve

Yes. Enamels work best! 

[Mike 1017]

I use 2-Part Epoxy. No problems with getting bald patches

Mike

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 hours ago, Mike 1017 said:

I use 2-Part Epoxy. No problems with getting bald patches

Mike

The only issue that I would see with that is that epoxy is thick and doesn’t flow, or self level.

I’ve never tried it, so I can’t say it won’t work, but I have to think that it would be difficult to apply evenly and smoothly.

 

 

Steve

[Hondamatic]

3 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

The only issue that I would see with that is that epoxy is thick and doesn’t flow, or self level.

I’ve never tried it, so I can’t say it won’t work, but I have to think that it would be difficult to apply evenly and smoothly.

 

 

Steve

Do you tamp down your powder? Or pour it and let it sit? I think some glues may be glossy, so they look bad through the powder 

[StevenGuthmiller]

44 minutes ago, Hondamatic said:

Do you tamp down your powder? Or pour it and let it sit? I think some glues may be glossy, so they look bad through the powder 

I dump the powder on when the glue is extremely fresh, and shake it around vigorously to ensure even coverage.

Don’t be stingy with the powder.

Excess can be saved and reused.

I don’t “tamp down” the powder because I’ve found that it can have the tendency to make the powder look clumpy, or if you’re not careful, the dry powder on the wet glue can “slip” or “slide” slightly, which can create bare spots, or at least unevenness.

I mask any necessary areas, slightly thin white glue, brush it on a section, (I’ll often divide  a floor into 3 or 4 separate sections) making sure I have complete coverage, and then immediately dump on the powder very liberally and shake it around.

Immediately after, remove the tape while the glue is still wet.

Let the glue dry completely and then blow any specks of powder off of areas where it’s unwanted, or brush away with a soft brush.

You can touch up small bare areas if they occur by lightly dabbing more thinned glue on the area with a small brush and dumping and shaking more powder.

 

 

 

Steve

Edited Thursday at 08:05 PM by StevenGuthmiller

[Mike 1017]

20 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

The only issue that I would see with that is that epoxy is thick and doesn’t flow, or self level.

I’ve never tried it, so I can’t say it won’t work, but I have to think that it would be difficult to apply evenly and smoothly.

 

 

Steve

I tape off everything that I don't want epoxy on. I just put a light coat on and a use a thick piece of thick of styrene cut to approximately the size of the floorboard and tamp down the Flocking or the Embossing Powder. Shake out the excess wait till the next day and from about a foot high spray on Gloss or Dullcoat to keep from brushing off excess from the rest of the interior. I should have done a better job of explaining

Thank Steve

[Mothersworry]

For securing embossing powder or flocking Elmer's white glue diluted with water has been my go to fer lotsa years and for me it works quite well...but there is a recipe. 

I have found it helpful to use a matt finish on the surface to be flocked, the Elmer's mixture seems to work better on the more porus surface of a matt paint.

I use a small mixing cup, an ounce or so. I thin the Elmer's with warm/very warm water to about the consistency of Testors gloss enamel (maybe slightly thinner), to this I add several drops of Dawn blue dish washing soap and mix thoroughly but gently...no bubbles. I test the mixture on a surface similar to the one to be flocked and adjust it as necessary to get the diluted glue to behave like paint and not "bead up". I apply the glue like paint with a soft brush and flock it. 

If yer curious...the physics...water has a very high surface tension, second only to liquid Mercury...simply put, it is attracted to itself. That is why water "beads" on surfaces like a kitchen countertop or a car hood. When water is used to thin the Elmer's glue the glue takes on the characteristics of water and tends to "bead" or pull into corners and leave "dry" spots.

Heating the water and adding soap relieves the surface tension and allows the glue mixture to work like more paint. Other chemicals also will work but wouldn't play well with plastic or paints.

By the way, adding a few drops of Dawn blue dish soap to warm water when applying decals makes it easier to move and postion decals and also helps prevent silvering (on gloss surfaces).

Fer what it's worth...

[Belugawrx]

I use spray or airbrushed flat paint in the colour of the flocking or embossing powder, and dump it on while still wet...let it sit till the paint dries, and tap out the remainder....works for me

Edited 1 hour ago by Belugawrx

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, Mothersworry said:

If yer curious...the physics...water has a very high surface tension, second only to liquid Mercury...simply put, it is attracted to itself. That is why water "beads" on surfaces like a kitchen countertop or a car hood. When water is used to thin the Elmer's glue the glue takes on the characteristics of water and tends to "bead" or pull into corners and leave "dry" spots.

Makes complete sense.

I've never done that, but I can see how the soap might help.

I'll have to give it a try next time.

 

 

 

Steve