Falcon Ranchero Posted Monday at 09:53 PM Posted Monday at 09:53 PM One of my favourite stories of old cars has to be about the three Roman Red Corvairs, that, in 1961, braved a section of roadless jungle between Panama and Columbia. First read about it in a past issue of my favourite magazine, Collectible Automobile, but from time to time when I see a corvair, this story comes to mind. Don't have the article with me at hand, but from my recollection, in 1960, three red Corvairs did something similar, but stopped before they got to the actual Darien Gap. It was in 1961 that another 3 red Corvairs actually went through it, with two making it out alive, and one having been ditched quite close to the Columbia border after running out of gas. They were accompanied by 3 Chevy trucks, two Suburbans, and an Apache 4x4 or something, and I don't think any of those made it out alive, one having broke an axle, the other having fallen down a gully. The whole thing was to promote the Corvair's rugged ability, but by that point consumers were more focused on muscle and sport than on whether or not you could brave a jungle with a passenger car, and so nobody really cared, and Chevy then focused on the sporty Corvair Monza. I thought it was the coolest thing ever, and even though I've heard stories about how bad these cars were, this accomplishment makes it kind of hard to believe. Mind you they were beaten senseless by the jungle, but became the first passenger cars ever that made it throught there. Pretty cool. Here's a video from 1961-ish that has actual footage of the 1960 run, and the 1961 expedition through the actual Darien Gap. That part starts around 13:35 in the video. It's pretty crazy. 2 1
10543Modeler Posted Monday at 10:18 PM Posted Monday at 10:18 PM I had a '65 Corsa convertible back in the mid 80's. It was a fun little car. Another one I should've kept............. 1
Mark Posted Tuesday at 01:06 AM Posted Tuesday at 01:06 AM Chevrolet concentrated on the sportier Corvairs because not enough people were buying the ordinary ones. Ford's Falcon was running away from the Corvair sales-wise. They rushed out the Chevy II (pretty much a Falcon copy except for a couple of things GM wanted to experiment with--the bolt-on front end structure, and the single-leaf rear springs that they had been messing with for a few years prior). Chevrolet's own dealers weren't crazy about the Corvair either; the Chevy II bore that out. Why bother with a rear-engine car that required more training and a few special tools, when you could sell a car with a cast-iron engine up front, driving the rear wheels, like everything else Chevrolet sold. And, which, the average dealer mechanic could beat the flat-rate time for most repairs without having to learn anything new. The Monza might not have happened either. Ed Cole at first wanted all Corvairs to have automatic transmissions. That might have dulled the effect of a sportier Corvair. The sales people pushed for a manual transmission for the base model to keep the entry-level price down. Had GM pushed other divisions to take the Corvair (Pontiac was closest to getting it, though all divisions except Cadillac were offered it) the rear-engine car might have been better accepted by the general public. Still, it probably wasn't needed, the Chevy II did just fine in that segment.
Mattilacken Posted Tuesday at 08:25 AM Posted Tuesday at 08:25 AM (edited) Cool expedition! I believe no one would try some thing similar in that type of car today. I wonder what the equivalent car would be today? Edited Tuesday at 08:26 AM by Mattilacken
stitchdup Posted Tuesday at 08:39 AM Posted Tuesday at 08:39 AM theres a book possibly called the burial brothers (thats what google says it is but the name doesn't ring a bell) that is a couple of guys driving an old hearse down through south america. i read it a lot of years ago and it was pretty good.
Dragline Posted Tuesday at 01:40 PM Posted Tuesday at 01:40 PM Ralph Nader is an...... You fill in the rest. 1 1
Ace-Garageguy Posted Wednesday at 03:29 AM Posted Wednesday at 03:29 AM (edited) On 7/15/2025 at 9:40 AM, Dragline said: Ralph Nader is an...... You fill in the rest. Considering that at the time of his holy war against the Corvair, he didn't own a car, didn't even have a license to drive a car, had never ridden in a Corvair, and had zero engineering background... There was nothing inherently wrong with the early Corvair (though it could have been better), and in fact, its rear swing-axle suspension design was identical to that used in VW Beetles and 356 Porsches, some production Mercedes cars, and even some highly successful F1 cars built years earlier. The problems were that 1) a simple, inexpensive device known as a "camber compensator" could have been fitted to make the first cars more friendly to Mr. and Mrs. Joe Average Driver ("camber compensators" were common upgrades on hot Porsches and VWs at the time as well...I ran one on my own VW), but the bean counters nixed the idea, and 2) tire pressures were critical to achieving safe and predictable handling of the very first cars in the hands of average drivers too...and GM mistakenly believed that putting the information regarding said tire pressures in the owner's manual would be sufficient. Nope. I've owned every flavor of Corvair ever made, and drove all of them hard. The 1960 (first year) with no camber compensator was indeed overly sensitive to tire pressures, but somehow I managed to avoid flaming death. The later first-gen cars through '64 were great fun to drive rapidly, safe and predictable. For 1965 Corvairs all got a sophisticated fully independent rear suspension design that was actually more advanced than what was on Porsches at the time and they handled great...but GM's gutless posture in the face of Nader's (and the hysterical yapping media's) largely exaggerated attack was what ultimately doomed the car. The last year was 1969. Nader's attack on the Corvair was the initial event that allowed the gubmint to push its camel's nose into the car-design tent, and the result has been a legacy of overly complex, expensive, and largely useless (and ultimately withdrawn...can you say 5mph bumpers, boys and girls?) "safety" features. EDIT: VW Bugs (below) and contemporary Porsches with swing-axle rear ends exhibited exactly the same extreme camber change in droop as the early Corvair, and were also sensitive to front/rear tire pressure differentials, but somehow managed to escape Mr. Nader's UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED !!!!!!! tirade. Edited Wednesday at 04:52 PM by Ace-Garageguy 5 1
TECHMAN Posted Wednesday at 04:16 AM Posted Wednesday at 04:16 AM Setting outside is my 1964 Corvair , black inside/outside/back-belly-& both-sides, 58K original miles survivor. Not a 100pt resto, but just a sanitary little car that has managed to "keep on keeping on". Was a factory special order 110horse 4spd with the optional handling package, has Flowmaster duals, little larger carbs, K&N air filters and recurved distributor with a 40K volt coil. STILL a ball to drive, and totally dependable!!!!! My personal thought: Ralph's wife ran off with a Corvair salesman.. 😉 DJ 1 3
Carmak Posted Wednesday at 03:10 PM Posted Wednesday at 03:10 PM On 7/15/2025 at 8:40 AM, Dragline said: Ralph Nader is an...... You fill in the rest. First off, not a Nader fan, but..... I read "Unsafe at Any Speed" years ago. The book does not focus on the Corvair in particular. Where the book does discuss the Corvair it explains and shows how the 65 rear suspension resolves the issues with the 60-64 rear suspension. The reason everybody knows Nader - the book - it's connection to the Corvair is GM. They attempted hired a group of people to attempt to ensnare Nader with a young woman to smear his reputation. It blew up on GM and became front page national news. GM's attempt to smear Nader actually got him the publicity the books release did not. Nader didn't kil the Corvair, the Mustang did. When GM released the F-body cars (Camaro/Firebird) to compete with the Mustang there was no need for two sporty coupes. GM made Corvairs until 69 but effectively stopped development after 67. 1
Dragline Posted Wednesday at 04:53 PM Posted Wednesday at 04:53 PM It seems today is no different from some 60 years ago. People who know nothing to very little on a subject speaking as though they were an authority on it. What is worse is those that listen and agree while facts and figures are never far away. It's almost as if Dunning Krueger were transferable or catching through the Internet. Now there's a security issue McAfee needs to work on. 2 1
Ace-Garageguy Posted Wednesday at 05:07 PM Posted Wednesday at 05:07 PM (edited) 2 hours ago, Carmak said: The reason everybody knows Nader - the book - it's connection to the Corvair is GM. They attempted hired a group of people to attempt to ensnare Nader with a young woman to smear his reputation. It blew up on GM and became front page national news. GM's attempt to smear Nader actually got him the publicity the books release did not. This is what I was referring to when I wrote "...but GM's gutless posture in the face of Nader's (and the hysterical yapping media's) largely exaggerated attack was what ultimately doomed the car." GM lacked the nads to vigorously defend the Corvair on its merits, which were plentiful, instead resorting to personal attacks on Nader. Even though the second generation Corvair was much more advanced technically than the Camaro/Firebird that followed, could have been further developed into a truly world-class sports car, and the first rounds of tooling and development cost were most likely amortized by '69, management wanted to get away from the stink they'd poured all over themselves with their shameful response to Nader, and let a great car die...hence the focus on the F-platform. EDIT: Driving a 180 HP '65 Turbo Corvair Corsa or a 140 HP 4X1bbl Corvair Corsa, or even the 150 HP first-gen '64 Turbo Spyder, if you never have...and if you understand and appreciate what "handling" is...will make you wonder "why, if the US was capable of making something so nimble and light and quick, did they continue to focus on front-engined grossly understeering bloated tanks?" Edited Wednesday at 05:30 PM by Ace-Garageguy 3 1
Falcon Ranchero Posted Wednesday at 06:29 PM Author Posted Wednesday at 06:29 PM I had actually seen the 1960 Promotional film before I even heard of the Darien Gap story; that film itself was very cool. 1
Carmak Posted Wednesday at 07:27 PM Posted Wednesday at 07:27 PM 2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said: This is what I was referring to when I wrote "...but GM's gutless posture in the face of Nader's (and the hysterical yapping media's) largely exaggerated attack was what ultimately doomed the car." GM lacked the nads to vigorously defend the Corvair on its merits, which were plentiful, instead resorting to personal attacks on Nader. Even though the second generation Corvair was much more advanced technically than the Camaro/Firebird that followed, could have been further developed into a truly world-class sports car, and the first rounds of tooling and development cost were most likely amortized by '69, management wanted to get away from the stink they'd poured all over themselves with their shameful response to Nader, and let a great car die...hence the focus on the F-platform. EDIT: Driving a 180 HP '65 Turbo Corvair Corsa or a 140 HP 4X1bbl Corvair Corsa, or even the 150 HP first-gen '64 Turbo Spyder, if you never have...and if you understand and appreciate what "handling" is...will make you wonder "why, if the US was capable of making something so nimble and light and quick, did they continue to focus on front-engined grossly understeering bloated tanks?" Years ago, I drove a friend's 66 Corsa 140 (4 carb) 4spd. It was a glorious machine, like driving a full size go cart! In the 90's and early 2000's I parted out cars as a side hustle. I had friends that were scrapers, and they would call whenever they got anything mid 70's or older. Early on one of those cars intercepted on the way to the crusher was a 66 Corvair 4dr with the 140, 4spd and a telescopic column. It was Iowa rusty and on the edge of losing structural integrity, but the engine turned over and I don't think it had been taken off the road much before I got it. What a cool 4dr that must have been when new!! I sold it to a local Corvair guy as a parts car so he could upgrade his more standard 65 coupe (he really wanted that improved 66 4spd trans). 1
slusher Posted Wednesday at 08:29 PM Posted Wednesday at 08:29 PM i enjoyed the video! I remember the Corvair but didn’t know why they stoped making them, now I know…
Dragline Posted Wednesday at 11:00 PM Posted Wednesday at 11:00 PM I would love to take a nicely prepped Corvair through a mountain pass. I have skills when it comes to taking a car and pedaling it in anger. I'm certainly no Senna, but capable. I've been a passenger once and it was enjoyable at parade speeds. A more spirited drive has so far eluded me. But Nader felt it his duty to somehow save Americans from what was in his mind a dangerous vehicle. There have been recent examples of people taking on causes for the sake of others..if only I could remember the names. It usually ends up in a bad place. And the reason? It gets lost in the interim. 2
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