A question about modified front suspensions...

[SpeedAndViolence]

Hello all-

I am currently working on the Revell-Mono 69 Dodge Coronet Super Bee.

One of my goals for this build was to give it some nice rake, and wider tires all around. 

The width of the kits front K-member to the spindle locations, would not allow me to use another tire choice without modification. The outside of the tires were all the way up against the inside fenderwell, and would not allow for any steering movement at all.

I have since narrowed the front tire track, and I'm attempting to rebuild the front suspension, but I have ran into the issue of not having adequate A-arms. 

For a size reference, the A-arms in the photo belong to a 58 Edsel Pacer kit. The straight pins in the photos are located in what will be the lower spindle pivot point.

My issue is having decent looking A-arms with such a narrow wheel track. 

Is there a source for tubular 'performance' style upper and lower A-arms out there that does not require raiding another perfectly good kit?  With prices these days, I can't afford to render another kit useless for 4 parts. I don't mind attempting to scratchbuild, but I would def need a good tutorial. 

Thanks for your input. 

 

Edited Thursday at 08:18 PM by SpeedAndViolence

[Ace-Garageguy]

eBay is a good source for what you need, both 3D-printed and kit-sourced.

Just enter "1/25 scale front suspension" in the search area.

One printed example right now:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363702408956?

One current kit-sourced example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/156830350950?

Edited Thursday at 08:36 PM by Ace-Garageguy
punctiliousness

[SpeedAndViolence]

*

Edited Thursday at 09:38 PM by SpeedAndViolence

[SpeedAndViolence]

46 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

eBay is a good source for what you need, both 3D-printed and kit-sourced.

Just enter "1/25 scale front suspension" in the search area.

One printed example right now:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363702408956?

One current kit-sourced example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/156830350950?

I actually purchased the items in the top photo, and they were much too wide. They were actually wider than the kit parts.  I need something with a much narrower wheel track.

If it means anything, even the steering arm from the Revell 68/69 Charger, will have to be modified, due too excessive toe-in.

[Ace-Garageguy]

19 minutes ago, SpeedAndViolence said:

Thank you.

Useless info: I actually purchased the A-arms in the top photo, but they are much to wide. 

I searched on feeEbay using every combination of terminology, but was not getting anything like the bottom photo. So thank you.

Well, I don't know what to tell you.

When I face a similar problem on a real car, I make whatever I can find work somehow.

Sometimes it requires narrowing the actual frame rails.

EDIT: And so sorry for providing "useless info".

I'll be sure to remember that next time you ask a question.

I rarely make the same mistake twice.

Edited Thursday at 09:30 PM by Ace-Garageguy
punctiliousness

[NOBLNG]

Draw the shape of the part you need on a sheet of 0.04” or 0.06” styrene. Drill a hole in the center void, cut the perimeter close to size, then file the interior and exterior to shape. It could stay as square tubing or you could file/sand them round. Fiddly work but unless you can find suitable kit parts or have access to a 3d printer it may be your best bet.

Edited Thursday at 09:36 PM by NOBLNG

[sidcharles]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Well, I don't know what to tell you. . . . 

you're just being kind

[Rodent]

I read that HIS comment about already trying that set of arms was useless info, not your advice. Nuance is difficult to achieve on da interwebs.

[Ace-Garageguy]

DELETED

Edited Thursday at 11:18 PM by Ace-Garageguy

[NOBLNG]

1 hour ago, Rodent said:

I read that HIS comment about already trying that set of arms was useless info, not your advice. Nuance is difficult to achieve on da interwebs.

That’s how I understood it too.

[Ace-Garageguy]

4 hours ago, Rodent said:

I read that HIS comment about already trying that set of arms was useless info, not your advice. Nuance is difficult to achieve on da interwebs.

 

3 hours ago, NOBLNG said:

That’s how I understood it too.

I didn't read it that way, now deleted I see (though it's still there as a quote in my response...and why delete it if it wasn't intended as I took it?) because that info wouldn't have been "useless" had it been stated in the original post.

Had the OP mentioned in his first post that he'd already purchased and tried the Iceman 3D printed setup I linked to and posted a photo of, I certainly wouldn't have wasted my own time searching for and posting it.

I did provide a direct link to another kit-sourced A-arm setup, but the OP stated he'd tried every search imaginable on eBay and didn't find anything like it. 

How odd. Here's another one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/286518404371?      

Anyway, you don't narrow the track on an IFS vehicle by getting tiny little short control arms that can't possibly provide proper suspension geometry. It is often necessary to narrow the distance between control arm pickup points so as to work with aftermarket control arms that are based on something like the popular Mustang II geometry, and that sometimes requires the frame rails themselves to be narrowed. Aftermarket real-car frames or subframes often incorporate this requirement from the get-go. Aftermarket crossmembers that are set-up for tubular control arms (again, very often based on Mustang II geometry) will include a nominal track-width measurement with a particular wheel offset (if they're from any kind of competently-engineered source, anyway) so the car builder can determine in advance how much frame surgery, if any, might be required to allow full steering lock, etc.

But at this point I think I may keep my useless information and apparent inability to read and comprehend English to myself in the future.

Far be it for me to be the source of any additional internet discord.

Everybody happy now?

 

 

Edited yesterday at 03:54 AM by Ace-Garageguy
punctiliousness

[Straightliner59]

8 hours ago, NOBLNG said:

Draw the shape of the part you need on a sheet of 0.04” or 0.06” styrene. Drill a hole in the center void, cut the perimeter close to size, then file the interior and exterior to shape. It could stay as square tubing or you could file/sand them round. Fiddly work but unless you can find suitable kit parts or have access to a 3d printer it may be your best bet.

At least if you make it to fit, you know it will fit! That's why we scratchbuild, right, Greg? 

[Beans]

Aftermarket doesn't always provide exactly what every model requires.  I would scratch build them.

[NOBLNG]

9 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

But at this point I think I may keep my useless information and apparent inability to read and comprehend English to myself in the future.

Far be it for me to be the source of any additional internet discord.

Everybody happy now?

 

 

No….the benefit your real world knowledge and input is something that I and many others on here enjoy and DO appreciate. Thank you for your past and hopefully future advice Bill.

[NOBLNG]

7 hours ago, Straightliner59 said:

At least if you make it to fit, you know it will fit! That's why we scratchbuild, right, Greg? 

Yes. And since it is a model proper geometry is not really required. A basic understanding of suspension geometry is helpful so that you don’t build something completely un-workable, but certainly A-arms could be shortened up some if a relatively small reduction in track width will suffice. If more is required then the frame rails may need to be narrowed as Bill pointed out.

Edit: here is how I modified some A-arms to gain engine clearance on a T-Bird build.

Edited yesterday at 01:37 PM by NOBLNG

[Mark]

A couple of things I haven't seen, or maybe have missed:

-Front tire/wheel width

-Wheel offset

The Superbee is a fairly big car in the real world.  It would seem to take a lot of tire, with maybe some unrealistic offset thrown in, to require the front suspension and steering to be radically changed in their width.  If you are going for a really wide wheel/tire combo with really deep offset, that will probably require a redesign that (on an actual car) might not work particularly well but will allow the look that is being sought.

[Spooker]

I've salvaged many old NASCAR builds just for their front clips.  Tubular upper control arms, nice steering boxes, decent tie rod end shocks, easily narrowed or widened to fit.