Question about truck based of prototype photo

[backyardtrains]

Hello forum,

I'm mainly a model railroader, in the oddball scale of 1/29, but dabble in 1/25 plastic kits for vehicles for my layout. I've scratch built and kitbashed vehicle projects but my latest project has me stumped because I'm not an expert on this type of stuff.

The area I'm modeling (Issaquah WA) had approximately 200 Breda busses delivered via rail for final assembly between 1988 and 1991.

Breda was/is an Italian tram/trolley manufacturer that won the bid to make dual motor (electric and diesel power) articulated buses for the new downtown Seattle transit tunnel. I'm planning on scratch building these busses as well, but I'm currently in the process of kitbashing a AMT Mack truck per the photos below. 

 

But here's my question, I don't really know what the back of the truck would look like or how it may have towed the buses off the railcars. I'll I've got is these two photos.

 

I'm looking for some suggestions, ideas, plausible ideas etc to make these look like the prototype.

 

Thanks in advance,

Craig

[sidcharles]

sorry i cannot help with the trucks' questions, but my word man: what brought about the 1:29 scale selection?

thanks

[stitchdup]

not sure if its the right version, buses are like 50s gm and change every year

[Beans]

Can't answer your question but thanks for the flashback to the days my friends and I used to take the bus into Seattle for the day.

[NOBLNG]

I would guess maybe a simple pintle hitch on the truck and maybe a removable A-frame that would attach to the bus?

[SSNJim]

I don't know for certain, but based on the pictures, I would guess the same way they load automobiles into train cars. There's a ramp that meets with the bed of the railcar, and the truck/bus is driven up the ramp and to the first vacant rail car over the empties. It looks like there are little platforms between the railcars so the truck/bus can transit between railcars.

I imagine there's a similar method for unloading tractor first. I can't imagine backing a bus or loaded semi 800 feet on a narrow bridge even if it is straight.

I am sure the busses are delivered with a splash of fuel and are totally ready to drive, and they are loaded under their own power.

 

[peteski]

6 hours ago, sidcharles said:

sorry i cannot help with the trucks' questions, but my word man: what brought about the 1:29 scale selection?

thanks

That is one of several G-gauge scales where the same track gauge is used to represent different 1:1 track spacing (gauge) trains.

See "NMRA deep flange scales" table on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_modelling_scales

There are some strange scale variants in model railroading.

[backyardtrains]

11 hours ago, sidcharles said:

sorry i cannot help with the trucks' questions, but my word man: what brought about the 1:29 scale selection?

thanks

Short story, a company had plans/models in HO scale which is 1:87. 1:29 is exactly 3x bigger... HO is exactly Half O scale or 0 Gauge. 1:29 runs on 1 Gauge track which is 45mm...

Long story, German company started this gauge of track, German prototypes, bastardized American trains to German track gauge, American modelers demanded more accurate models and now we have 6 different scales that function on the same gauge track. 😂 

Edited yesterday at 08:22 PM by backyardtrains

[backyardtrains]

6 hours ago, SSNJim said:

I don't know for certain, but based on the pictures, I would guess the same way they load automobiles into train cars. There's a ramp that meets with the bed of the railcar, and the truck/bus is driven up the ramp and to the first vacant rail car over the empties. It looks like there are little platforms between the railcars so the truck/bus can transit between railcars.

I imagine there's a similar method for unloading tractor first. I can't imagine backing a bus or loaded semi 800 feet on a narrow bridge even if it is straight.

I am sure the busses are delivered with a splash of fuel and are totally ready to drive, and they are loaded under their own power.

 

I have a picture and news clippings of the unloading process. Because this was a branch line and only 1 train at a time, when they got shipments of these busses in they take the locomotive off the cars, bring a crane in, lift the railcar up, roll the railcar wheels ( it's called a truck) out from under, dump the flatcar minus the truck back on the rail (this was all done over a grade crossing), stack some boards and drive over. Pretty easy and low cost.

[backyardtrains]

7 hours ago, Beans said:

Can't answer your question but thanks for the flashback to the days my friends and I used to take the bus into Seattle for the day.

Yes certainly a staple of my childhood as well. Nothing like getting onto 520, hearing the bus driver put the petal to the floor and the bus groaning under the strain, then about 3/4 of the way across the bridge you'd get up to speed just to take the off ramp. We rode the 254, and 255 all the time.

[backyardtrains]

7 hours ago, NOBLNG said:

I would guess maybe a simple pintle hitch on the truck and maybe a removable A-frame that would attach to the bus?

Ahh that sounds like a reasonable suggestion. Something that could be bolted up to the bus frame relatively easy and lightweight. 

[SSNJim]

4 hours ago, backyardtrains said:

I have a picture and news clippings of the unloading process. Because this was a branch line and only 1 train at a time, when they got shipments of these busses in they take the locomotive off the cars, bring a crane in, lift the railcar up, roll the railcar wheels ( it's called a truck) out from under, dump the flatcar minus the truck back on the rail (this was all done over a grade crossing), stack some boards and drive over. Pretty easy and low cost.

Interesting way to do it in an area with limited resources. It is very clever. Thanks for the info!

[backyardtrains]

2 hours ago, SSNJim said:

Interesting way to do it in an area with limited resources. It is very clever. Thanks for the info!

Looking at my pictures better it wasn't even a crane. Looks like a heavy duty forklift in the background which sounds even more sketchy. But hey it works.

[backyardtrains]

Since I'm talking about the Breda buses, here's my initial plan to build them.

The original plan was to CAD them up and print most of the parts but as I worked on the CAD, I realized they would be fairly easy to scratch build. For the sides, my plan is to build a .020" styrene shell (interior and exterior) and sandwich a piece of .060" acrylic between. That should give me plenty of structural strength. 

I'll probably end up drawing and printing the articulated section as I'm not sure how I'd go about building it. I'm guessing probably resin print vs FDM (I have both).

No interior, panagraph/trolley wire details needed as that was part of the final assembly. 

Right now I'm trying to either source a wheel/tire combo or just CAD and print those as well. I've got plenty of reference photos so I should be able to replicate the busses fairly well. My goal is to build at least 3. I'll probably skip a lot of the underbelly details, engine bay etc because well, they are what I call "squirrel food" models. My vehicles have to be able to withstand some real weather elements as st railroad is all outdoors. Vehicles get moved inside for storage but they can also be left outside for a while.

 

 

[backyardtrains]

18 hours ago, stitchdup said:

not sure if its the right version, buses are like 50s gm and change every year

Yep those are the one and only Breda buses. Apparently Breda made some other articulated busses for export but the Seattle ones seemed to last the longest. Eventually they tore the diesel motors and associated equipment out and ran them as trolley only.

[sidcharles]

since we're all researchin' an' stuff, this could be a resource for someone with the courage:  https://www.busesonscreen.com/home

[Ace-Garageguy]

Fascinating thread...about which I know absolutely nothing.  

[backyardtrains]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Fascinating thread...about which I know absolutely nothing.  

I only know enough to get myself in a pickle... I have a problem with prototype modeling is that I'll find some obscure thing, like these busses and then obsessively scour the Internet to find as much information as I can just to model it. And 90% of the information I find will be helpful to the actual building process. 😂