black lacquer paint ...

[Foxer]

I'm close to painting my Infiniti G35 replica which need a good black paint finish. I originally planned to use Tamiya Acrylic, as I heard it goes down very well. But, I'm a lacquer fanatic by nature because of it's quick drying and it goes on thin and smooth .. for the most part. I don't want to get into urethane paints at this point. I am using a spray gun.

I see Tamiya and Testors have black lacquers but have never tried them before. I imagine I can get Duplicolor or other auto touch up paint and decant also. I have this thing about black paint in my head saying it's the most difficult color to get looking well, but that may be just my imagination. I do plan on using a clear coat over it.

So, I'd appreciate any recommendations and experiences as to BLACK LACQUER paint ... brands, techniques, etc, etc.

Let the rambling begin ....

[Fuel Coupe]

House of Kolor brand. Available from Black Gold or Slixx.

No question about it.

[Zoom Zoom]

Use Tamiya TS 14 black. It's excellent, goes on smooth and in thin layers, Tamiya sprays in a finer mist than Testors.

I would also recommend using micromesh or similar to sand/polish out all the mold lines as smooth as possible, and shoot the black directly on the plastic w/o primer. If you can decant/airbrush it will be even better.

And if you want the deepest black, do not use clear. Even Tamiya clear can get a small amount of humidity "blush" in it that will show over the black, unless you spray in very arid conditions. Yes, black requires a very smooth base, and a lot of polishing afterwards if the paint isn't already glass smooth (that's why I recommend not using primer unless you polish it smooth). It's easy to fix mistakes. Tamiya's own compounds work great, and you can use a combination of Meguiars cleaner/wax and some of their quick detailer to help detail it, and use the softest, cleanest polishing rags you can imagine.

This is Tamiya black, not clearcoated, it's as close to a perfect paintjob I've done:

This is Tamiya TS 14 black clearcoated w/TS 13 clear. It got a slightly cloudy look on the roof/decklid from the final coats of clear (slightly humid conditions when I sprayed it). It was a deeper black w/o the clear. Lesson learned! Just use enough black so you don't polish through it.

[Fuel Coupe]

Use Tamiya TS 14 black. shoot the black directly on the plastic w/o primer.

Interesting. I wonder what solvents are used to keep it from etching the plastic

[old-hermit]

Plasti-kote Lacquers. Big can, small price. I love it !!!!!!!!!

Can be found in most auto parts stores and large discount stores. (Wal Mart, K Mart, etc)

[Brendan]

I'm in agreement with Bob Downie. If you have an airbrush, the best thing to do is decant the Tamiya paint and shoot it with an airbrush. I have really good results with Tamiya's clear, but I put it on before the black dries so it's a wet on wet paint finish.

Here's a picture of my Lola race car that I used Tamiya's black on.

Tamiya's Black with Tamiya's Clear...wet on wet painted.

Decals applied; second coat of clear, not buffed.

Finished kit with light polishing and buffing.

[Zoom Zoom]

Interesting. I wonder what solvents are used to keep it from etching the plastic

Hobby lacquers (Tamiya/Testors) use solvents that don't eat plastic. Therefore no need for primer as a barrier. If you use auto lacquer, you'll need primer...more paint thickness, likely not nearly as smooth a base for the black (unless you spend the time to wetsand the primer thoroughly to a baby-smooth surface w/o an texture), more work overall. Tamiya paints are simple to use, why use auto paint for a standard color like black, white, red? Save auto paints for colors you can't get in hobby form. Considering the high quality of Tamiya paints, they're worth the extra cost because they are less work overall. I've used all the hobby blacks and I've used a lot of auto paints, airbrushed & from the spray can. Trust me, Tamiya TS 14 black is the best way to a great finish with a minimum of hassles and prep/finishing time. It's a pure black (makes Testors look like a dark brownish-gray).

[E St. Kruiser50]

Hi Mike .

How are ya?

Thought I'd add my two cents worth here with everyone elses .

Got a system like most everyone else here, so here's one more choice for you.

To me black is one of the easiest colors to shoot, because there's no variation in color.

BLACK IS BLACK kinda like the STONES sing in I WANT MY BABY BACK .

I think the big difference is usually the choice of paint brand to use. and what YOU CONSIDER GOOD RESULTS.

To me prep is always one of the most important steps in the painting process, no matter what kind of paint I use, and knowing how to use the paint properly.

PRIMER;

Over the years I've discovered that most every primer I've used affects the plastic surface differently, and gives you a different kind of primered finish.

DupliColor's black primer works wonderfully, but I don't like the finish directly over the plastic. It just doesn't seal the plastic, and give me the finish I like - PICKY .

I still rely on my "old stand by" DupliColor High-Build Gray Primer to seal the surface first.

A couple of coats, from a "FRESH CAN" of primer ( YES - THAT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE FROM "ANY" RATTLE-CAN), let it dry stone hard a few days and then sand - It sands so nice and preps the surface so smoothly for the black primer to be laid down.

The black primer gives the GLOSS BLACK DUPLICOLOR more depth and intensity. I don't sand the black primer.

Once the black primer is done, I let it dry a day, and then shoot, the THREE STEPS with the gloss black DUPLICOLOR.

Next, about an hour later, I'll shoot a coat of PLASTICOTE CLEAR # 349, ( I don't like DupliColor's clear as much) just enough to cover - not wet, just enough to be glossy, and seal the black, and have a like surface to paint on the next day when you re-shoot the clear using the THREE-STEPS.

As you've read before in my posts, everything is done in 24 hour periods, and with multi-colors that can be over-lapping, even with clear. A wet-in-wet process mentioned here earlier in another post.

All that waiting for days and days for the paint to dry, to do the next step, creates huge issues you read about here all the time, but you NEVER read about someone having problems with the wet-in-wet process.

For rattle cans in black, even decanting, I really like Duplicolor. There's a lot of pigment in the paint, which allows it to cover extremely well, with very little build-up. I just do the standared three coat process - LIGHT, MEDIUM, HEAVY (Wet), 15 minutes between coats.

Now I don't decant, because I like the way DupliColor comes out of the nozzle and lays down nicely in a warm enviornment (My heated spray booth), plus warming the can.

I mentioned earlier about shooting from a fresh rattle-can of paint.

NO ONE EVER TALKS ABOUT THIS and it's important to take into consideration, because the mixture of the combined chemicals in the can change as the can empties, no matter how well you shake it, because they're constantly settling.

Also air pressure changes as you use the paint up in a can.

Fresh cans of paint and primer shoot so much nicer on the first half of the can, and, to me, seem to degrade pretty quickly after that.

I save half empty cans or less for doing the small accessory pieces , but the main body pieces get a FRESH CAN OF PAINT, especially on a build with a lot of work, time, and money invested - WHY SKIMP?

Of coarse, urethane will always give a superior final finish with the least amount of paint, and will out-finish any other type of paint IMO, and my experience.

Hope this helps Mike - dave

Edited August 11, 2009 by Treehugger Dave

[Chillyb1]

BLACK IS BLACK kinda like the STONES sing in I WANT MY BABY BACK .

Sorry, Dave, but "Black Is Black" was by Los Bravos while "Paint It, Black" was by the Stones.

Now back to the paint discussion....

[E St. Kruiser50]

Sorry, Dave, but "Black Is Black" was by Los Bravos while "Paint It, Black" was by the Stones.

Now back to the paint discussion....

OH YEAH

Edited August 11, 2009 by Treehugger Dave

[curt raitz]

Hobby lacquers (Tamiya/Testors) use solvents that don't eat plastic. Therefore no need for primer as a barrier. If you use auto lacquer, you'll need primer...more paint thickness, likely not nearly as smooth a base for the black (unless you spend the time to wetsand the primer thoroughly to a baby-smooth surface w/o an texture), more work overall. Tamiya paints are simple to use, why use auto paint for a standard color like black, white, red? Save auto paints for colors you can't get in hobby form. Considering the high quality of Tamiya paints, they're worth the extra cost because they are less work overall. I've used all the hobby blacks and I've used a lot of auto paints, airbrushed & from the spray can. Trust me, Tamiya TS 14 black is the best way to a great finish with a minimum of hassles and prep/finishing time. It's a pure black (makes Testors look like a dark brownish-gray).

I totally agree...Tamiya TS-14 is the BEST Black paint available in a rattle can. Works great straight from the can or decanted for an airbrush.

Best results are hitting it with a clearcoat while it's still wet, I've used Tamiya's TS-13 or Model Masters Ultra Gloss Clearcoat without any problems.

[Foxer]

I LOVE this place SO MUCH! There is SO much experience rolled up here for simple black paint job to bring a new learning experience to me! Thanks so much for all this advice!!!

.. and please keep it coming.

The wet clear on wet black intrigued me .. never would have thought to apply the clear so soon. How soon after the last black coat before the clear is applied? (assume Tamiya paint)

All those black paint jobs are stunning!

And, considering "Paint it Black", you guys rock!!

Edited August 11, 2009 by Foxer

[Zoom Zoom]

The black Fairlane I showed was painted w/wet clear over wet black (I always shoot clear immediately after color, in fact often I add clear to the last coats of color), the clear got slightly cloudy and it didn't come out as the body dried in the dehydrator. If humidity is a bit high beware. The black was spectacular before the clear. Still came out good, but a lot of experts through the years have claimed that for the deepest, darkest black do not clearcoat. Now I have a great example of it. Years ago I sprayed a resin model w/automotive black & automotive clear. I buffed through the clear in a few places. Guess what? The black that came through was nicer than the rest of the paint under the clear (and the clear was quite smooth). After my recent experience w/Tamiya clear over Tamiya black, I'm convinced. On nearly any other color it won't matter.

[E St. Kruiser50]

How soon after the last black coat before the clear is applied? (assume Tamiya paint)

It depends on how much clear your going to spray on.

The biggest problem is with too much clear you can actually float the colors underneath and expose what's beneath it . - NOT GOOD.

You'll have to experiment some , maybe on a plastic spoon, because you need to see what "WORKS FOR YOU. Envioramental conditions such as temp. and humidity can very and make a difference.

All of us who are giving you advise think we're expert's , but you have to decide after some experimenting on your own like we did.

HOW LONG TO CLEAR COAT??

On most everything, in 15 minutes, I shoot one medium sorta glossy coat of clear to seal the surface.

Wait an hour, and do the THREE STEP ( Like a 12 step only quicker ), wait 24 hours and polish it out.

[mse op]

I'm close to painting my Infiniti G35 replica which need a good black paint finish. I originally planned to use Tamiya Acrylic, as I heard it goes down very well. But, I'm a lacquer fanatic by nature because of it's quick drying and it goes on thin and smooth .. for the most part. I don't want to get into urethane paints at this point. I am using a spray gun.

I see Tamiya and Testors have black lacquers but have never tried them before. I imagine I can get Duplicolor or other auto touch up paint and decant also. I have this thing about black paint in my head saying it's the most difficult color to get looking well, but that may be just my imagination. I do plan on using a clear coat over it.

So, I'd appreciate any recommendations and experiences as to BLACK LACQUER paint ... brands, techniques, etc, etc.

Let the rambling begin ....

[mse op]

there is the zero paint available from www.hiroboy.com in england they offer it in bottles and are airbrush ready.you can clearcot it with

any clear coat or use either their pre-thinned lacquer clearcoat or their 2k(urethane)clearcoat

[Alyn]

Thanks Chilly for keeping Dave honest on the musical memory.

Maybe it's because of my dirty basement environment, but my paint routine is built around having a wet sanding step. I try to use only enough color coats to get full coverage. This varies drastically depending on the color of paint going on. Typically, I'll shoot about three or four color coats, getting progressively wetter (the paint, not me) with each coat. Then I continue with fairly wet coats of clear; maybe two or three light, but wet coats. The clear is there to allow for a light wet sanding and I want enough so as not to break through to the color coat. This is left to dry a day or two; sometimes even a week. Then I wet sand to take care of minor blemishes, dust and dirt, runs, etc. Sometimes the wet sanding doesn't require much at all. This is followed by about three more coats of clear which, depending on how nice it goes on, may not need much help afterwards.

I have a multi-step polishing system(forget the brand at the moment) and I vary the starting grit depending on how nice the final clear coats go on. In most cases, I'm only using the fine wet sanding in selective areas of the body. Then everthing gets polish.

My paint jobs to date haven't been award winners, but they're pretty nice.

P.S. Tamiya rocks! Love ta spray it, hate ta pay it.

[RatRod]

I'm a big fan of Dupli-Color paint over Plastikote, but I only use Plastikote sandable primers. I think it's the Plastikote clear that I don't care for mainly. These were done using several coats of Dupli-Color black, and clear, then polished.....

I also agree about the Tamiya lacquers, lately I've been using quite a bit of that stuff too with excellent results.

Edited August 11, 2009 by RatRod

[old-hermit]

All of us who are giving you advise think we're expert's ...

I'm no expert, and probably the worst painter on this board but I know what works for me.

All the builds below were painted right from a plasti-kote can.

[E St. Kruiser50]

BOY

TALK ABOUT SOME NICE BUILDS COMING OUT OF THE WOODWORK - MAN :blink: .

THIS TOPIC SURE BROUGHT OUT SOME BEAUTIFUL STUFF.

THANKS GUY'S

[Abell82]

To me black is one of the easiest colors to shoot, because there's no variation in color.

BLACK IS BLACK kinda like the STONES sing in I WANT MY BABY BACK .

Hope this helps Mike - dave

I'm really surprised that no one but me has a problem with this statement. NO VARIATION in black paint? Hogwash!! Every color of black paint has a different mix. Black is NOT just black. Some are more yellow, some are more blue, etc. Compare 3 different black paints side by side in direct sunlight, and you will see a difference. Sorry, but there can be HUGE variations in black paint, just like any other shade.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Abell82

[ChrisPflug]

Duplicolor rattle can and plenty of polishing

[cruz]

I have never used any paint without using primer but Bob makes sense when it comes to the black straight onto the body without clear. I have always thought that any clear would leave somewhat of a haze on any paint specially on black which is the kind of color that would show any flaws. I am definitely trying that trick, to me, as long as you have a clean foundation you will ultimately have a clean paintjob.

I also like the idea of having less coats of paint on a model, I like to keep all the body details intact and very visible at the end, avoiding a primer coat would be nice for this. I also think that there is enough inherent gloss in these Tamiya paints that you don't really need a clear coat in most cases. By the way, yes, these Tamiya paints don't attack the plastic, at least I have never had any issues with this.....

[old-hermit]

Here I go again.

Wait till the paint is COMPLETELY gassed out and pour on Pledge Future floor wax.

I set the body on an upright brick in a pie plate and just pour the liquid over it.

Then use a Q tip to collect the drips. You can pour the liquid back in the bottle too for reuse.

It gives a deep shine and won't show finger prints.

Again, it works for me.

[E St. Kruiser50]

I'm really surprised that no one but me has a problem with this statement. NO VARIATION in black paint? Hogwash!! Every color of black paint has a different mix. Black is NOT just black. Some are more yellow, some are more blue, etc. Compare 3 different black paints side by side in direct sunlight, and you will see a difference. Sorry, but there can be HUGE variations in black paint, just like any other shade.

NO HOGWASH HERE .......I USUALLY PAINT EVERYTHING OUT OF THE SAME CAN , but I do agree with you about different brands varying.

I USE A CLEAR OVER BLACK THAT MAKES THE BLACK LOOK A FOOT DEEP, RICHER AND MORE BRILLANT - MUCH NICER THAN THE BLACK BY ITSELF.

GUESS IT'S ALL IN THE PAINT YA USE, LIKE THE DIFFERENT BUILDS YOU SEE HERE .

Edited August 12, 2009 by Treehugger Dave