I wonder if we do the right thing in our praise...

[Blake Rogers]

well that's the point of this site is to learn and get new ideas from others i mean i myself aint great at some things hence why i am here and once i do post a few builds i hope you can guys can tell me what i have done right and wrong so i can improve.

Edited July 27, 2010 by moparfan426

[Danno]

[Blake Rogers]

hey danno that's my calling card no fair lol

[Peter Lombardo]

Oh yeah? Well, "I could care less"... :lol:

Harry, in keeping with the spirit of this thread, it should be "I could NOT care less"

[Modelmartin]

While we're on the subject .....

Awhile back I picked up on another trend that twists me up a bit . When someone asks for advice and it is given , people come out of the woodwork to dispute said advice ! They then proceed to offer a mile long dissertation on how they feel it should be done , in their expert opinion.

I hear you, Brother Donn!! That is precisely why I will not comment on resin casting questions. Some time back a few folks who did not have much experience were all over me about techniques they heard about from someone else. They weren't even speaking from experience. I have been resin casting since 1980. I have made thousands of molds and many tens of thousands of parts. I know what I am talking about and I know what I know. It wasn't worth it to me anymore. At the end of the day, I cast for myself, and I could care less! So there!

[Harry P.]

Harry, in keeping with the spirit of this thread, it should be "I could NOT care less"

I guess you missed the joke...

[Guest Johnny]

At the end of the day, I build for myself.

But what about at the beginning of the day??? Is it that at the end of the day you look at the finished model,and say "OMG what did I do to that model"???

I have an old friend that builds for him self too! Or I gues that is what he does.

I have yet to see one he has finished! Every time he gets one done it goes right back into the box and into the closet!!!

I have seen some of his unasembled work and it looks great but when I ask about the last one he was working one he says "oh, I already put it away" and if I ask to see it he will hem and haw and say "it isn't as good as any of yours" and I never get to see his finished work!

[Jeff Johnston]

Wow this thread is long.

In the end it's how you make the delivery. If someone says comments and criticism is welcome they should mean it. Then we should provide opinions that are constructive but not harsh. Same as I hope most of us would do in real life. You can say "the paint looks like ccrap" or "your stance is so high it looks like an SUV".... Or you could say "I think you can smooth out that paint by doing this or that" and you'd be a lot happier with the results". Or you can say if you want to bring the stance lower like the real car is, you can do this or that to make that happen".

the internet is really a place where faceless people can say whatever they want, to whomever they want, any way they want and not have to be accountable. Most of the time the recurring flamers could not have real life a debate if they tried. So they spend 15 minutes putting together 5 sentences in response... It's a joke really. Its not reality and its not real life. If you want real life go to a model show or a club meeting and talk about models. You can probably get your work critiqued sensibly without someone getting their pants in a wad like they do on line. You can't see facial expressions and the likes....its not real life folks. I will bet 75 % of the people who have strong opinions on here can't hold a normal civilized debate in real life..

I have received the best advice at shows talking to real people. I have learned stuff on line..a lot actually. But nothing beats standing over someones model and asking questions about technique etc.

Just sayin'

[Jon Cole]

Can we all not use the phrase "I build for myself" anymore? It is pretty obvious we all do build for ourselves. Who else would we be building for?

Pet peeve, which I had to put out there. Carry on.

I agree! Besides, I build for the voices in my head.

[Steve Keck]

I build for the voices in my head.

It's OK to talk to yourself, Jon, just as long as you don't argue with the replies you get.

[Danno]

I agree! Besides, I build for the voices in my head.

In the interest of efficiency, I've been trying to get the voices in my head to build for me!

[Guest Johnny]

I agree! Besides, I build for the voices in my head.

Whhat do they tell you???

[highway]

I agree! Besides, I build for the voices in my head.

Whhat do they tell you???

Mine keep telling me "DO NOT BUILD BOX STOCK!!"

Maybe that's where I get some of my crazy ideas!

[made007]

Box stock means, dumping a model in a good way

[made007]

i read some comments of this thread but not all, what i can say, personally i dont like critisism, what i can do is point the modeler to the right way, in other words i can help him, but not by telling the flaws just telling how to correct them

[rbarton]

My opinion is that if you post your work here, any comments, positive and negative, are part of the deal. It's up to each individual as to what they want to say (or not say)... but once you show the world what you did, the world has the right to comment. If you can't take criticism, don't post pictures of your work.

As far as "critical" comments... there's a right way and a wrong way to criticize. Be smart about it.

I agree. If I put something up here I expect you guys to say something...anything wouldn't hurt my feelings. I'm here to learn and from what I can tell I'm in the right place. When people myself included see a model we already say something in our minds, why not constructively put it out there?

[Cornpatch]

I agree! Besides, I build for the voices in my head.

Your really lucky Jon, you have your own voices.

I have to build for the voices in my wife's head. In fact everything around the house is done for her voices. : :lol:l ol:

Jeff

[beefheart22]

Good point that enabling shabby work isn't helpful. Guilty of posted shabby work myself, but I never expected praise and kind of raised an eyebrow why my ugly sins received compliments. Mind you, not too many responses which was a good indication that there was much needed improvement. On the other hand, it's hard to constructively criticize or advise when it's not asked for without sounding like a jerk, but like others have pointed out it should be expected in a forum dedicated to improving skills. Personally I would like some criticism and advice.

There are individuals who take criticism and advise as slander and humiliation. There are individuals who could stand to apply a little more tact as sometimes they come off as arrogant and belittling. Nobody's perfect. But if we all post our work with a little understanding that we need help, or others need help then those shabby builds will not long turn into nice looking pieces.

For those who feel their shabby work shouldn't be criticized because of skill level or the excuse that one doesn't want to build show quality models should know that nothing can be achieved in life with the attitude "good enough". Always do your best. Take pride in everything you do. Nothing is "good enough". Everything has room for improvement. Keep an open mind and push your self each and every time. With everything in life.

It basically boils down to this: If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.

[midwest 1953]

Good point that enabling shabby work isn't helpful. Guilty of posted shabby work myself, but I never expected praise and kind of raised an eyebrow why my ugly sins received compliments. Mind you, not too many responses which was a good indication that there was much needed improvement. On the other hand, it's hard to constructively criticize or advise when it's not asked for without sounding like a jerk, but like others have pointed out it should be expected in a forum dedicated to improving skills. Personally I would like some criticism and advice.

There are individuals who take criticism and advise as slander and humiliation. There are individuals who could stand to apply a little more tact as sometimes they come off as arrogant and belittling. Nobody's perfect. But if we all post our work with a little understanding that we need help, or others need help then those shabby builds will not long turn into nice looking pieces.

For those who feel their shabby work shouldn't be criticized because of skill level or the excuse that one doesn't want to build show quality models should know that nothing can be achieved in life with the attitude "good enough". Always do your best. Take pride in everything you do. Nothing is "good enough". Everything has room for improvement. Keep an open mind and push your self each and every time. With everything in life.

It basically boils down to this: If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.

I didn't read this whole thread.. but the above is a good answer..

I don't give praise for anything, unless it is over the top...

Perhaps what we should do is... those people who want constructive critisism should say so in their post ("critisism welcome" ). Personally when I post something, I want flaws pointed out.." bad paint choice" or "bad wheel choice" is not a flaw.. " right front wheel is off ground " and " paint is thin on edges " is...

I have noticed that this carries over into the advice needed sections of the Forum, people seem to be afraid to post an answer when you ask for it.. guessing this is due to being afraid of offending the asker....

Jim A.

[Romell R]

I believe the best thig to do is point out what is good in a build.... then with out hurting anyones feelings offer tips on how it(the problem you notice)can be avoided on the next model. for example: I noticed a certain modler (who will remain nameless) was having a problem with orange peel but his build was clean. I asked him if he knew how to heat his spray cans so the paint atomizes better, and then along with that I told him not to try to cover the model in one coat. Well he took that advice and on his next model his paint came out 90% better and he was greatful for the help. So its how you present the critiszm that matters.

[ROY AVERY]

WELL SAID ROMELL

[Bernard Kron]

Fabulous thread. Great topic that took guts to initiate for the reasons already stated.

But maybe this issue can be somewhat overstated. It's certainly true that there are groups of builders who have formed little self-congratulatory circles for what are quite obviously poor to mediocre builds and it can have the effect of perpetuating this level of modeling. I feel most of those situations are pretty obvious. It's a choice those modelers have made and they are pretty easy to ignore or skip over.

But the very thing that we all seem to be so concerned about, our silence, can be deafening. Believe me, the collective disinterest of the forum tells you a lot about what you've managed to achieve. And I'd bet that most of the time that's how things happen, rather than the certainty of a circle of friends standing ready to distribute the Atta-Boys. If someone takes the time to comment that's a plus, let alone to offer constructive criticism (which happens only rarely).

I think on balance most of us post our builds for the benefit we get from seeing them in context, surrounded by models that are everything from ones we know are clearly inferior to our own extending to those built to a level of technique and creativity we feel we may never achieve.

Certainly it's why I started posting here. I remember being surprised when I got a few compliments since I certainly didn't expect them, I just wanted to see my build "on the page" (and I wasn't exactly sure I liked what I saw...). The complements served as encouragement since I obviously had made a connection with my build. It helped me get a clearer picture of what was right with my model and consider ways to get better at it. But I was lucky, because some of compliments actually said something about what the viewer liked, not just Atta-Boy.

On my next post, a build I had done too hastily and which was way over my head at the time, I received my first two criticisms. I had left a glue smudge on a rear tire and I had used front suspension links which were incorrect for the period of car I claimed to be modeling. I felt a little miffed, primarily because I knew about them in advance and has simply been too lazy to correct them. Secretly I had hoped they would slip by. Sadly, many other errors (the aforementioned glue on the windshield among others) skated by without a peep. It reminded me that it was all there on the page for everyone to see, so who was I kidding - only myself. Both criticisms were served up with grace and humor so I survived the ordeal. The act of exposing my work to my fellow modelers served urge me to seek to avoid those issues in the future.

I think it matters how we say things as well as what we say. A vapid, empty "great build", while pleasant enough, is less useful than a complement where we share with the builder more specifically what it is about their work that we like. Similarily, a cruel laundry list of flaws and errors without an indication of how the builder might redeem themselves is a pretty bitter pill to swallow and not very constructive.

I continue to post for the camraderie that comes with sharing in a hobby we all love, in order to assess my progress in context, and for the comments and discussion that, with luck, might ensue.

Edited July 29, 2010 by gbk1

[Harry P.]

A vapid, empty "great build", while pleasant enough, is less useful than a complement where we share with the builder more specifically what it is about their work that we like. Similarily, a cruel laundry list of flaws and errors without an indication of how the builder might redeem themselves is a pretty bitter pill to swallow and not very constructive.

That sums it up quite nicely.