Jantrix Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 I have a great untouched Johan 63 Starfire kit, that was one of my favorites as a kid. I want to build it, but as of yet haven't a clue how. We've got a terrible chassis, mediocre engine and a god-awful interior bucket. However the body and the chrome -- nearly perfect. I've talked to other modelers about accurate donor cars and the consensus is - there isn't one. I'm sure some of you have done one of these, what did you do to it? Pics, descriptions, ideas, hallucinations, all welcome. I'm not concerned with accuracy. I'm going to build it as a custom anyway. I'm just picking your brains. So lets run this up a flagpole and see who salutes.
Craig Irwin Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 You say it's a favorite from you're youth, so I'd build it nice and clean out of the box just like you would have back then. (OK, much cleaner! LOL)
my66s55 Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 The best Olds engine I know of is in the AMT 39/40 Ford sedan. The one in the Early Iron 29 Ford roadster pickup isn't too bad except it is blown and 1/24th. I have this 63 Olds in a hardtop kit and personally, I will build it straight out of the box and say thank you very much for the availability of the subject matter.
disabled modeler Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 The interior if detailed will come out pretty good...it not having any detailing or color gives it a plain simple look. With careful detailing they don't look that bad to me. The engine is a bit dull and kind of has a generic look to it but built mine factory stock right out of the box.
Junkman Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 There aren't many good renditions of the underpinnings of GM B-Platform cars with perimeter frames, since most of them would be promo based. The one that comes to mind is the AMT 67 Impala. In addition to the engines already mentioned, the Jo-Han 68-70 Olds 442 ones aren't bad, neither are the ones from the Toronado kits. But all this still leaves you with the Jo-Han interior and for a replacement you are pretty much on your own. I would do what Doug suggests. Say thank you that it exists at all and build what's in the box.
george 53 Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 The Revell 49 Merc has a Caddy engine. the nicest Olds motor most recently are the AMT/Ertl 69 Olds kits, the Lindburg 67 442 Olds kit, and the AMT 66 Olds 442 kits.They are more easliy obtainable and better detailed.Hth.
slantasaurus Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 The closest chassis would probably be the AMT 62 Pontiac but getting the JoHan interior to work with it might be a problem and you would still need an engine from another kit like the AMT 66 442, MPC/AMT 69 442, or Revell 72 H/O.
Chuck Most Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Revell 49 Merc kit has an Olds motor option I believe, maybe the AMT 442 kit would give you a better chassis & engine & interior ..just a thought. That's a Cad motor- though with a little work it could resemble a pre '64 Olds mill. For a Chassis, I'd go with the AMT '62 Bel Air or the Lindberg '61- I think those had the X-frame, though you might have to stretch the wheelbase for them to work.
Junkman Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 That's a Cad motor- though with a little work it could resemble a pre '64 Olds mill. For a Chassis, I'd go with the AMT '62 Bel Air or the Lindberg '61- I think those had the X-frame, though you might have to stretch the wheelbase for them to work. Correct, the Chevies had the X-frame, but the Olds didn't. That's part of the problem.
george 53 Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Rob I have one of those, an after checking it out, it MAY seem a bit TOO much effort, BUT, if you WANT, if you score directly downwards at the base of the doors, back seat base, and around the console, you MIGHT be able to remove the floor completely, and just install a peice of sheet plastic as a new floor. It'll only be deeper by the depth of the old floor, but it may make your interior look a bit better. I've done this on a few of the AMT 65 GTO'S and it worked out real good.Hth.
george 53 Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 The Olds frame appears to be a perimiter style frame WITH an X brace in the center! Of course it MAY be a convertable frame. i don't know.
Junkman Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) And yes, the perimeter frame would have an X-member, it was hence called the X-Plus frame. Edited August 28, 2011 by Junkman
Jantrix Posted August 28, 2011 Author Posted August 28, 2011 You say it's a favorite from you're youth, so I'd build it nice and clean out of the box just like you would have back then. (OK, much cleaner! LOL) The best Olds engine I know of is in the AMT 39/40 Ford sedan. The one in the Early Iron 29 Ford roadster pickup isn't too bad except it is blown and 1/24th. I have this 63 Olds in a hardtop kit and personally, I will build it straight out of the box and say thank you very much for the availability of the subject matter. Valid points. I hear every word you guys are saying, and I appreciate the input. But if you know anything about me and my models, it's got to be unique. Fear not I will figure something out.
Chuck Most Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Forgot all about this one- AMT's 62 Cat might be a good chassis donor- it has a proper perimeter frame. Again, though, some tweaking of the wheelbase might be in order- GM was running two wheelbases back then, not sure what was what. If I recall- the Cat was on the shorter wheelbase, and I'm not sure about the Starfire at all. Then you'd only need to worry about the engine- easy task, and the interior, which as Christain said is pretty much hopeless as far as more detailed choices go.
slantasaurus Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Forgot all about this one- AMT's 62 Cat might be a good chassis donor- it has a proper perimeter frame. Again, though, some tweaking of the wheelbase might be in order- GM was running two wheelbases back then, not sure what was what. If I recall- the Cat was on the shorter wheelbase, and I'm not sure about the Starfire at all. Then you'd only need to worry about the engine- easy task, and the interior, which as Christain said is pretty much hopeless as far as more detailed choices go. Amazing, I thought that the chat room was the only place that my posts weren't showing up but aparently they are invisible here too.
Chuck Most Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Amazing, I thought that the chat room was the only place that my posts weren't showing up but aparently they are invisible here too. Just backing you up.
Jantrix Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 Hmm..........of all the GM stuff I have, the chassis from the AMT 70 Impala fits best.
charlie8575 Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Rob, The Starfire was essentially an 88 with really cool trim and a more powerful engine. The 88, like the Catalina, was a "B" body car, and the Cat frame would probably be the best match. The wheelbase will have to be adjusted slightly (Olds- 123", Pontiac- 120", and yes, it will be noticeable in the wheelwells.) Once there, you can use the X from any of the Chevy kits from that vintage, cut it out and glue it in place, to make Olds' X-perimeter frame. The suspension would be complicated, as Pontiac's Wide-Track suspension, although sharing a lot of parts, had many unique components that differed from the other GM makes. While it might be too noticable in scale, it could create issues with wheel fitment. The floors-I'd just use the Catalina floor and devise a way to make it work with the interior- perhaps you can cut the floor off the interior and glue the tub to the floor. Engine- the Olds V8 in the Ford would probably be a good start, you'll need to use the Jo-Han intake/air-cleaner, though. In short, it's a lot of work, and I'm honestly not sure if it would be worth it. Christian, I think, may have had the best answer. Build it for what it is. This kit, like its contemporaries, is a product of its time, and as such, was designed in a certain way. It was designed for a certain market and certain results. Taking the time to carefully detail-paint the chassis and detail the engine as best you can will make huge differences in the final appearance. I almost never go to the lengths some people do with older kits to "update" them. I merely build and enjoy them as they were intended to be. There are some things I might change and do different on some cars, but not usually. Some small things you could do to help improve appearance. 1. I would substitute brass tubing for the plastic axles a lot of Jo-Han kits had, as it's much, much stronger (I speak from far too much experience,) and you could cut the tube so rather than going straight through the block, you could use a very thin sheet of plastic or brass on the back of the wheelhouses, and then glue the axle stubs to that. That will clean up the engine bay a lot. If the hole in the block isn't visible, don't worry about it. Otherwise, fill it in with some good catalyzed putty and sculpt to shape, or go with the AMT Olds engine. 2. Take plenty of time to pick out all the details underneath and on the firewall. The careful painting of the relief-cast details can really make it look good. 3. The same applies to the interior and body. Care and attention will pay off. Any 1960s kits can be made to look exceptionally good with a little extra time and attention. Charlie Larkin
Junkman Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 For that, which looks terrific btw., you won't need the stock interior. You may try the one from the custom 62 Catalina for size.
Jantrix Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 Guys. I do appreciate the great info. I do plan on building this as a custom and as it has been said, art trumps engineering in this case. It will be something like what Tonio did (which is magnificent by the way).
bobthehobbyguy Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 How about using the chassis from the AMT wagonrod. Bobby Alloway sets up the body stance and then has Morrison make a chassis to fit the stance. You could either use the corvette engine or pull another engine from another kit. Bobthehobbyguy
Jantrix Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 Something Corvette-ish is definitely getting kicked around the 'ol knoggin'. Thanks.
Tonioseven Posted August 30, 2011 Posted August 30, 2011 Thanks Rob! I was gonna go in deep on the interior but after looking around a possibles alternatives, I just decided to work with what was there. I actually thought about using the Catalina frame but again, I just took the easy way out. I look forward to seeing what you come up with!
Ron Hamilton Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Personally if it were me, I would use the AMT '62 Catalina chassis, suspension and floorboards. For the interior, it is pretty shallow, so I would use the kit piece, and cut the floor out and deepen it at the bottom. The front bucket seats and console will probably have to be scratchbuilt. The 394 Oldsmobilr engine in the kit is not half bad, as some rudimentary detailing and aftermarket parts can bring it to life. My Dad had a '62 Starfire, which I would love to do a model of.
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