IPMS model contest eureka mo was a joke!

[Jeff Johnston]

I like contests because it makes me a better builder. I learn something from someone every single time I go. I am also not ashamed to say that when I put a model on the table, I want to win. If I don't, believe me it doesn't ruin my day...or even a second of my life. But I'm a generally competitive person so if its a model contest, golf, or a game of tidly winks... I want to win.

I have to agree with Droid that its strange not to pick up any model at a contest. Though anyone detailing the chassis I assume has the visible part detailed as well. I mean, who super details a chassis and not an engine . The issue I see with this is that if (2) models are in the running for the 1st, the chassis detail might be the difference between 1st and 2nd, or 3rd, etc...

[crazyjim]

The new president of IPMS is a car guy.

[58 Impala]

Our car model club paticipates in two local IPMS shows, the Orlando chapter and the SpaceCoast chapter. We really enjoy the shows and the phenominal quality of all the models. We as a car model club are asked to do the car model judging for the local chapter. We use the same judging rules as with our own shows. We judge both the top and the bottom of the models,but we give the entrants the option of not having their models handled. If they choose that option and there is another model in close competition with theirs, then they may not win their category. We look at the models and if they are close in initially quality we have to examine them further which includes the underside.

[71drolds]

i would like to restate what i said in the beginning. weither i won or not, i dont like the judging standards. i do build quailty models. ive won other shows. i detail the ENTIRE car leaving nothing untouched. im not crying because i didnt win although i knew i would be accussed of that. i know that all the cars were judged the same way. its the way they were judged that i dont agree with. by these standards of judgeing, i could have entered a snap together model, not painted or detailed anything, and it should win because there would be zero flaws and zero risk taken. while these standards may strive someone to produce a higher quality model, they dont encourage you to go outside the box and go out of your way to put that last tiny detail in with the smallest of tweezers for fear that it will go completely unnoticed because the judges wont even see that part of the car. i likely should of looked at the ipms website and learned how they judge. i will continue to build and enter shows. i do largely build these models for my own enjoyment and a win at a contest is just icing on the cake. i hope everyone continues to be active in this hobby and participate in it any way they can. this is just one mans rant.

[crazyjim]

Maybe you should think about supplying a list of the modifications/detailing and set it in front of your build. Or make a sign like the 1:1 cars use at a show.

[71drolds]

jim i did exactly that. i had a page i typed up listing all the modifications i did and what materials were used. but if the car is never picked up, i could be lying about half of them. i like what was said earlier about the modelers being given the option of having thier cars handled and i did infact tell the head judge i would prefer to have mine handled. but i was told that wouldnt happen unless there were two top enteries that they couldnt decide on. so the car with the most outstanding paint and the best engine would of won hands down even if the underside was left untouched. cant anyone see the problem with this?

[whale392]

As it was stated earlier, twice to be exact, your model IS NOT to be handled and if you wanted them to see the underside, a mirror is a must. I guess that wisdom just comes from going to multiple IPMS shows. Think of it this way; had you spent 1,000 hours getting every detail right on that 1/48th scale E2-C Hawkeye, would YOU want it manhandled and possibly dropped? THAT is my point, all reference to crying aside. Sorry to offend your soft sensibilities, but if I were judging, I would do THE SAME THING. Next IPMS show you go to, bring some tire stilts and a mirror, along with your sheet stating the mods you did.

[71drolds]

i did buy a mirrored stand yesterday as i already stated, i just wont be using it at any ipms shows.

[Guest Johnny]

I'm with you Harry. Just from what I have seen and heard of the big shows, I'm just not interested.

I have entered maybe a dozen when I was younger but all local contests at Hobby Shops or Car Shows.

I even won a second place trophy once!

It was great bringing it home just wish I could have brought home the model that won it with but some one evidently liked it more than me I guess!

Just always seemed like the home town boys whose club was putting on the show cleaned up on the awards.

Same with the 1:1 car shows. That is why when I went I usually did not register to win. I was there to show my car and to check out the other cars and talk to other gear heads!

[71drolds]

i now understand that this way of judging is an ipms standard. and if thats the way they want it done, fine. i just choose not to participate in their events anymore because of it. i know some of the ships and planes have very intricate rigging and small parts. the ships absolutely dont need to be picked up because you can see everything on them. the planes sit high enough off the ground that you can see 99% of their undersides. if my model was carelessly dropped because of mishandleing i would be upset. but these cars car be handled in a manner where they are barely elevated from the table and can be COMPLETELY evaluated.

[Art Anderson]

In all this, it might be wise to understand the story of IPMS: The International Plastic Modeler's Society started in the UK about 1960---modelers who built plastic scale model airplanes, choosing the name to show that they were building museum-quality models from the simple, plastic model kits then seen as primarily a kids' thing, as opposed to the balsa & tissue (and larger) flying model aircraft. This was the initial thrust of IPMS/USA, one of whose founders was a woman from here in Lafayette, whom I knew very well. The organization was exclusively plastic model aircraft through nearly all the 1960's, until they voted to allow plastic models of military vehicles, both armored, and soft-skinned. Next came the "figure modelers", those who were painting and detailing the highly detailed soft white-metal historic military figures then very popular. Naval ships came next in the early 1970's--and all along, there were often heated debates as to whether or not IPMS was losing its original focus--some early members, those who were aircraft builders, even left in anger over what they saw as a "dilution" of their hobby, THEIR organization. (Sounds almost like some of the heated arguments that have been heard at contests, even within the pages of this, and other model car forums online, when one thinks about it!).

By about 1975, IPMS/USA started to recognize the model car hobby, by then seeing an increasing number of adult builders, in what was still viewed by many, if not most, in the industry as primarily a hobby for the 10-16yr old kid crowd. That "acceptance" was not universal--even though a model club might be a chapter of IPMS/USA, chapters are very free to be focused on what their members see as what "plastic model building" should be, and what the individual memberships want to zero in on (again, doesn't this sound like many a purely model car club even to this very day?)

Even in our world of hobbies, there are similar prejudices, sometimes the same sort of "selective" thinking: I used to write and print the monthly newsletter for Lafayette Miniature Car Club here. In doing so, I used to write a short editorial for each issue (and several of our members contributed their editorial thoughts as well over the years). We mailed our newsletter to other clubs around, and a copy went to the magazines in the hobby, including this one. One editorial I wrote talked about the need to respect all subject areas of model car and truck building, in particular the concept of "replica stock"--which I felt at the time was an often overlooked, "unsung" area of our hobby. Gregg picked up on that, contacted me for permission to use that short "editorial" in an early issue of Model Cars Magazine--perhaps some here remember that.

It's easy to see, I think, where modelers' preferences show vividly--for all the fun of an NNL, in the end, the recognition of "Best In Show" is almost always a "People's Choice" award--the model garnering the most votes becomes the winner. Nothing wrong with that, per se', but it does show me that some of the very same sort of "focus" for which some denigrate IPMS chapters and members exists in our own ranks. It's a "majority" kind of thing, here in Model Car Land, just as it is in the world of scale model "Warmongers" (and I've heard that term thrown at IPMS/USA for more years than I care to think anymore).

IPMS/USA doesn't really deserve all the criticism that I see and read still about these sorts of things. As far back as July 1985, when the IPMS National Convention was hosted by the Roscoe Turner Chapter in Indianapolis--model cars, by sheer numbers, were a very close second in importance to aircraft (still the largest interest grouping within IPMS), and for the first time, a MODEL CAR (Randy Derr's fantastically built and detailed TransAm Camaro) was awarded "Best Of Show"--and model cars faired very well in other contest-wide categories (I still treasure the plaque awarded my 1962 AJ Watson USAC Dirt Track Championship Race Car as "Best Scratchbuilt"), and so it goes. Not always will a model car win, and as with any contest in the Model Car side of things, not always will all entrants go away thinking that "The Best Car Won"--that's a fact of any and all scale model contests, across the board, from HO trains to whatever subject area one wishes to think about.

In the end, though, we can all walk away from any contest, be it in some little podunk crossroads, or in the midst of some great metropolis, hopefully still glad to be alive, still savoring the memories of the event--new acquaintances met, old friends coming together once again--lots of models seen, a bunch of "bench-racing", and hopefully more new and challenging ideas and concepts that none of us had ever before even considered. And, of course, most all of us come at the hobby with a philosophy pretty much like Popeye: "I builds what I likes and I likes what I build!"--pure objectivity in any sort of craftsman, artistic endeavor is a pretty thing to talk about, to advocate, but I submit almost impossible to meet, by anyone --our subjectivity always creeps in just a little bit.

OK, nuff said.

Art

[Harry P.]

Going back to the original post on this topic...

Matt was talking about the judging method, the breakdown of classes, and allowing late entries.

He never mentioned anything about any bias IPMS may have when it comes to model cars... it was others who brought that up.

[Pete J.]

Interestingly, I have been involved in a rather long discussion on the IPMS/USA forum about the subject of judging automotive subjects and attracting more automotive modeler to IPMS. It has proven to be a very long and contetious subject(over 17 pages of posts of two months). I was going to post a link but can't find it at the moment and I must be off to work. Many issues were hotly debated including a rewrite of the judging criteria for autos and differant classes that more accurately reflect the current catagories used in many auto only contests.

Frankly, I think you had a bad experience based on one chapter and painting all of IPMS with that brush is a bit extream. I am a member of an auto only chapter of IPMS and we have a sister chapter that is all catagories and we seem to get along fine. In fact we put togeather a contest not long ago that was quite sucessful. IPMS is really quite a hands off organization at the local level and chapers are pretty much free to run and judge contests as they see fit. At regional and national level it is an entirely differant matter, so I think you would be better off to say "I'm not going to that contest again" rather than excuding all contests sponsered by an IPMS chapter. Frankly, I have seen many non IPMS contests where the judging was much further off base than anything I have ever seen from IPMS.

I know that there is a lot of rankor from a lot of auto builders with IPMS and some of it is well deserved and a lot is from hearsay. IPMS chapters are just like any other club. They are made up of people, some of whom you will like and get along with, and others that you won't. Keep an open mind about all and reserve judgment for the people.

[Darin Bastedo]

When I go to a contest I couldn't care less how the judging is conducted, or who wins, though if it is a friend of mine he will recieve a well deserved pat on the back. If I win it's almost anti-climatic. On most of my models I spend any where from a couple of months to a few years of spare time working on them. A two dollar trophy is not going to make a bit of difference in my enjoyment of the hobby. That said I love going to and entering contests. I have met some really great guys who have taught me many new techniques and have made some lasting friendships. I love shopping and horse trading with the vendors, and often get some good deals on kits I want and am exposed to aftermarket accesories I didn't know about.

Yeah, I've been to some poorly judged contests in the past the most recent I know was poorly judged because my second place model by most standards shouldn't have even placed given the competition I was up against. But from what I saw all had a good time and there were no sour grapes. I go for the fun of it, not the end result.

[Mike Kucaba]

"On most of my models I spend any where from a couple of months to a few years of spare time working on them. A two dollar trophy is not going to make a bit of difference in my enjoyment of the hobby. "

This sums it up for me. Well said

[71drolds]

pete i agree with you. i did come off that i condemed the ipms as a whole. i did not relize it is as large as it is. there are only three shows i know of in my area. one is an ipms event and the other two held by Midwest Model Vehicle Association. im not about to travel long distances to go to shows. so when i say im not going to the ipms show, what i really mean is this show in particular. its the only ipms show around here i know of. if more ipms events come up in this area i will most likely not attend if the judging criteria hasnt changed.

[DanielG]

I think it is a matter of out-look. I view these get-togethers as a party where we get to display our handy-work for one another and at the end of the day some folks wander around and pick some models that they feel deserve special mention and a little trophy to mark the occasion. Nothing to live or die on or get all bent out of shape about.

[Jon Cole]

As Futurebat referred to, the worst judging by far has to be small hobby shop judging. It's usually a petri dish of subject ignorance and favoritism. Avoid them.

As for the chassis & mirrors issue, I personally do not understand the host clubs fear of handling of models, much less the builders themselves. Has anyone ever broke a model at a contest? Oh, I am sure it has happened... but I have never seen it. Why is this such a big deal? You can break your 1:1 car by driving it... do you never drive it as a result? Accidents happen. And model contest accidents, like other accidents, are rare. I have to believe the judges are trying their level best to be as careful as possible models. Also, many shows here in the northeast ask on the registration if you, the builder, do NOT want the model handled. Just put a big 'X' in the box. Do so, however, and you run the risk of not being judged on hidden features.

I should state that my opinions are not exclusive to the IPMS, as I have never competed in their contests. You can, however, get a good deal in the vendors area on a car model... a friend of mine bought a Porsche 914 by Revell for $10. Had I been in front of him, I would have found it first!

[bigphoto]

wayne i agree with you. my ignorance of ipms practices is obvious. true, i am a very competitive person, but i didnt mind not taking a place in the show. i just didnt like the judging practices so i will take myself out of the problem by not attending. if you or anyone else agrees with them, by all means go to every show they put on and enjoy yourself. i have nothing against the judges, the organizers or the ipms members. im sure they worked hard to pull off the event and provide an atmosphere for those in the hobby to come together.

Hey Matt,

Here is my .02 pennies, I understand your unhappiness with how the judging went as it can be very frustrating as there seems to always be something about the judging at all contests that someone disagrees with. I am a judge at an IPMS event and also did a stint as the head judge at the same event. That being said most IPMS events have judges sign in sheet for folks to volunteer to judge, here is what I have suggested to some that have had issues with how the judging went, basically if you enter in more than one catagory maybe not enter one or two catagories and volunteer to help judge those catagories and that way share your knowledge of the subject(s) so as to make better judges out of everyone concerned and who knows you may learn something too!! especially if you also help out with say aircraft, armor or what ever. As an aside by being a judge with automotive knowledge you can also point out models that have been place in the wrong catagory. Also please note that IPMS contest rules are based upon fit and finish foremost.

Hopefully this helps to ease some of the pain, and like I said its just my .02 pennies!

[71drolds]

thanks for your imput tim. i was waiting for ipms judge to reply. i actually did volunteer to judge the cars but they said they had enough judges. by doing this i was trying to understand their practices better and why they do it the way they do. although, i still dont agree with them, just my .02 pennies.

[bigphoto]

thanks for your imput tim. i was waiting for ipms judge to reply. i actually did volunteer to judge the cars but they said they had enough judges. by doing this i was trying to understand their practices better and why they do it the way they do. although, i still dont agree with them, just my .02 pennies.

Matt,

When I became the head judge at the K-Zoo contest the first year I was the HJ there was a lot of speculation that there was nepitism going on, also someone with a checkbook model was very angry when a OTB model placed better than his but the truth was the OTB model was virtually flawless, so I with several others involved with putting the show on came up with a plan that has helped immensly where by the when a person signs up for judging we ask them to put their club affiliation on the sign up sheet then the HJ sets up the teams so that there are hopefully no two members from the same club on a team and newbie judges get put with experienced people and it has virtually eliminated most issues. However not everyone is going to be happy at all events but so far it has helped greatly.

You may want to contact that host chapter about the judging and suggest that they contact me or the West Michigan chapter

about the info I have passed on as it has been picked up by several other chapters.

And next time if you have photos of the build process put them with too and don't forget the mirror next time

Please don't let this sour you totally against the IPMS contests.

[Bill Edman]

matt the mmva show is next month so i am hoping to see u there and cannot wait to see some new builds

p.s. special theme is movie and tv cars

[Craig Irwin]

IPMS chapters are a mixed breed, some have members who know car models and judge them well, and others only know tanks and planes. It depends on the membership they have.

[oldscool]

I have been to some shows just to look and buy but I never have and never will compete as it just takes the enjoyment out of the hobby for me.

gus

[71drolds]

george the kirkwood show is oct 30th, 10a to 3p.

bill i should be at the kirkwood show with the 442 i just finished. after this last show im adding some more detail to it to step it up a little bit. see ya there.