Models in Walmart.....

[highway]

  On 12/3/2011 at 9:27 PM, george 53 said:

But after the holidays, Sayonara baby!

No, to the clearance shelves!!

[martinfan5]

Double- or main hobby stores , hobby bench, has two full isle's of model car kits, and I think four for planes and boats, the selection is good, but they sell right or just above MSRP, for me to drive to one of them is about a 20 mile trip , give or take a few miles. so then when you figure the gas in , what add another few more dollars.

I still go there to get all my supplies, and if I ask nice I can get my G/f to stop on here way home work as she drives right one , for me, I have thought about buying paint and other supplies online, but with shipping its not really worth while yet.

I am all for supporting out LHS, but I think a lot people on here dont seem to understand is that not everyone has a LHS that is with in reason, or if they do their price's might be high.

I look at this way, the more money i save, means I can just buy more

[martinfan5]

And the same kits that Hobby Lobby is selling and Michaels

[Madd Trucker]

As DD stated the LHS we had was geared to some RC but mostly towards war game junk . I once asked him to oder a kit for me and it was like pulling teeth for him to do it,He did orderit and it came in . I went and picked it up.A few weeks later I went to pick some extra supplies amazingly he closed up ona Sunday night and the store was empty on Monday when I stopped by from Home Depot.

[martinfan5]

  On 12/3/2011 at 9:53 PM, DoubleD said:

some of those same kits can be found in Michaels, i don't know about Hobby Lobby. the point with those two stores though is that without a coupon or on clearance, neither of those stores prices are all that great or as low as what Wallyworld has the kits for, for the holiday season.

what's my point? forget about that it's the Devils evil spawn Walmart that has the kits, take advantage of a good deal when there is one.

Double, you are right, I did not even think about the price's, I think the savings is around $5 or so

[george 53]

Tom's still kickin,Ken, talked with him about two weeks ago at the Detroit NNL's. He had his stand set up, and he and his grandaughter were sellin models! And Yeah D., our Marts used to have TONS of models! I guess that just makes us old if we remember them days! Our K-Mart only carries a few all the time now too, NUTHIN like they USED too!.

[Danno]

  On 12/3/2011 at 10:25 PM, khart said:

My theory is Walmart is carrying models again to advance the conspiracy to drive Tom Carter out of business ...

[Danno]

  On 12/3/2011 at 9:27 PM, martinfan5 said:

Phoenix does not have very many LHS, we have three and they are all owned by the same person, and have high price's on kits . And one of the main reason why I dont go there very often is , I live on the out skirts of town, so its almost a 30 min drive, then you consider gas, so that just makes it smarter to buy online , well atleast for me.

Plus I dont always have time to make a trip to the LHS. I am not worried about the LHS going out of business anytime soon, they have been around for the last 15 years or longer, the R/C people are keeping them in business

Actually, Jonathan, there are five LHS shops remaining; two of which are owned by the same company, the other three are individually owned and independent of one another. All but two live off the R/C business; the other two live off the military modelers.

By the way, all of them charge full MSRP for everything. There are no discounts to be had other than the rare/occasional sale ... and the periodic Hobby Lobby/Michaels coupon sales.

When I arrived in the Valley, there were 8 more LHS shops ~ in addition to 4 of the surviving 5. There has only been 1 shop join the field in the past 15 years ...

Not really a big deal, but just thought I'd keep the "record" straight.

[Bill Eh?]

translation for mr cheap

Oh, it's X-mas, 1 small cardboard rack with 14 to 15 kits in the midway (middle aisle?) at $15 to $19. The artwork on these kits was made for 8 year olds and I was not impressed. Somebody here said there was 2000 through 6000 wet dry sandpaper. They did not have it.

[Skydime]

I haven't seen model kits in Walmart in several years anywhere in my area. And even though it may be a limited selection for a limited time, and I hate Walmart, I applaud bringing them back. For all those saying they prefer their local hobby shop, more power to you. But it is an hour and a half to my closest hobby shop and the only other place around here that sells any model kits has had an unchanging limited stock for quite some time. So, yeah, there are a few kits I saw in this post I don't have yet and may pick up if my Walmart gets them.

BTW, all those talking about "the big box stores", you have to consider that Hobby Lobby is a major company now and you can't even get most of these cars that cheap there without a coupon. So, "it ain't just Walmart."

Edited December 3, 2011 by Skydime

[Kaleb]

There are no models at our two Wal-marts . O well I did get a green sticker(Wal-mart) on a kit from Bill_rules the other day.

[Art Anderson]

I doubt that many on these boards remember buying model car kits 30, 40 or even 50 years ago. The cost of developing and tooling a model car kit in the 1960's was tremendously costly for those days--well in excess of $100,000 and that was in 1960's dollars. Model companies could afford it back then, given that a new model car kit could be counted on to sell, at minimum, 100,000 copies or more in any given year (although some of those kits were dismal financial failures, for sure).

In the mid-1960's, the Supreme Court of the United States struck down the Depression-Era "Fair Trade" laws in every state in the US, laws that gave manufacturers the power to set the retail price for their goods, from clothing to electronics, to hardware, you name it, even including plastic model kits and the supplies to go along with them. Those laws were put in place in the early 1930's to try and halt the "deflation" of money, by forbidding "discounting", although most major retailers were able to get by with at least a small discounted price structure.

I was privileged to be a little bit "on the inside" of AMT Corporation from 1975 through their selling out to Lesney (the Matchbox Toy company) in 1979, and remained so until Lesney went bankrupt in March 1982 at the depths of the recession in the US at that time. By "on the inside", I mean that I was one of the guys who built box art models, models for trade show displays, and for presentation to licensors of AMT and other persons they felt a need to present builtups to. In addition, I used to do informal surveys of local mass retailers (back then, it was KMart, Ayr-Way (bought up by Target Stores about 1983 or so), Woolco, and a series of discount store tenants whose names I've forgotten in the intervening years), tracking quietly the "sell through" of AMT products (how rapidly did a stock of any particular model car kit move off the shelves in say, the first month of their existence). Also, I got consulted on proposed new subjects from time-to-time, as were other modelers at the time.

Fast forward to the 1990's if we can please: Walmart replaced KMart at the top of the mass retailer heap by 1990, and they still are today. Now, bear in mind, Walmart started out in small towns, NOT in major cities as was the case with all the other Big Box type stores. It was not until about 1990 that Wally made the move to major city markets, and they did that with a vengeance. Along the way, Walmart grew so large, so powerful that they could (and still do) dictate the price point of any lines of merchandise they offer on a full-year basis.

Model kit development costs rose rapidly in the decade of the 1970's--for those of us old enough to remember, the 1970's were years of some pretty serious inflation, often just under 10% annually, and by the late 70's inflation was at double digit levels. That meant that by the time a model kit went to tooling, more than not the tooling costs were higher than they were at the outset of the development of a particular kit. At the same time, model car kit sales dropped dramatically, as other model kit subject areas grew in importance and popularity, while being much less costly to tool up (for example, the tooling for a plastic model airplane kit is far less expensive than tooling for a model car kit, given that airplane wings and fuselages can (and almost have to be) tooled in at least two parts per assembly, left and right sides of the fuselage, for example, where a model car kit body is expected to be molded in one piece, which means a mold with at least SIX sliding tools (inside, top, left side, right side, front end, rear end), calling for a tremendous precision if the company wants to get a reasonably clean body shell, free of as much mold misalignment as possible (and that's pretty costly to do--the more precision demanded, the more costly the tooling to do it).

But, when Walmart arrived, became the by far dominant retail company on the map--they were in a position to dictate what a particular product in their stores would cost them, so they could sell it at the price they deemed right: Only this time, instead of forcing a higher price, Walmart went the other way, low price. Now low prices are fine, we all love to get stuff inexpensively, but that does come at a cost ultimately, to the consumer. Either lower quality, lower durability, or in the case of model car kits, fewer parts, fewer options, unless something could be done to lower the costs of new tooling, and even more importantly, the costs of manufacturing; and ultimately, less variety.

Walmart essentially forced a $10 price point (MSRP) on model car kit companies through the 1990's and into the early 2000's, but at what cost? Well for starters, by the late 90's, fewer and fewer new subjects got developed and put in production. While most of those were very nice, even Walmart didn't put them in all their stores, preferring to dictate from Bentonville AR which stores, which markets, got which product. But, with the disappointing toy department sales in 2002/2003 holiday seasons, Walmart, just as with the other mass retailers, seriously reduced their toy departments (where they stocked model kits), to make room for other lines of merchandise that they could move faster, make more $$ doing so. And if one thinks about it, anything hanging on a pegboard hook takes less space than the footprint of a single model car kit, so more of them can be merchandised in the same space.

All this said, and I know this is a long-winded post, my favorite places to look for model car kits are hobby shops, even if that means I have to drive 65-70 miles to Indianapolis--so I make the trips count.

Art

[kitbash1]

  On 12/3/2011 at 5:50 PM, Dr. Cranky said:

Been there done that, I prefer to support my local hobby shop. Sorry, but that's how I feel.

Me too, but my local hobby shop didn't sell Polar Light's Nascar kits for $4.50 a pop.

[Longbox55]

  On 12/4/2011 at 12:16 AM, Art Anderson said:

my favorite places to look for model car kits are hobby shops, even if that means I have to drive 65-70 miles to Indianapolis--so I make the trips count.

I do the same thing, exept I'm a little further away from Indy.

[martinfan5]

  On 12/3/2011 at 10:50 PM, Danno said:

Actually, Jonathan, there are five LHS shops remaining; two of which are owned by the same company, the other three are individually owned and independent of one another. All but two live off the R/C business; the other two live off the military modelers.

By the way, all of them charge full MSRP for everything. There are no discounts to be had other than the rare/occasional sale ... and the periodic Hobby Lobby/Michaels coupon sales.

When I arrived in the Valley, there were 8 more LHS shops ~ in addition to 4 of the surviving 5. There has only been 1 shop join the field in the past 15 years ...

Not really a big deal, but just thought I'd keep the "record" straight.

Danno- I keep forgetting that Hobby Bench closed the one in the mall, thats why I was saying three, my mistake, and I forgot about the other one on 59th ? then you have hobby depot in the east valley, does he still have both stores open still or just the one in tempe?. I just give up trying to keep up with all of them. Is one of the gordon hobbies?

The only reason why I was only referring to hobby bench is I have not been to any other hobby stores in a very long time, so I can not speak for them or their price's . Just trying to be fair .

Also, checked my closest wally world and could not find any models or diecast.

And I think Dan is mad at me that I have not join the club yet, I can always mail my info and check to join

Edited December 4, 2011 by martinfan5

[martinfan5]

There was a time where I looked forward to going to hobby stores, it was more about talking with the owners then about buying, but its not like that any more, well at least not for me, and its a shame because I miss that. So now I see our LHS as just another business, and treat them as such. And if some one else is offering what I want at a better price, I am going to buy from who offers the better price.

i would love to spend money at my LHS, but if I did , I wouldn't be doing much modeling . Not everyone on here or in the modeling world as ton's of extra income to spend, and I am sorry that it offends some people that some of us like to save some money on our hobby.

[Danno]

  On 12/4/2011 at 1:23 AM, DoubleD said:

congradulations to Art, for putting us all to sleep

I don't find Art's post boring or sleep-inducing at all. I find Art's historical information and the glimpses 'behind the curtains' that he often provides to be extremely interesting and valuable. Sorry you can't find value in his posts, but it certainly isn't appropriate for you to be facetious and insulting about your lack of interest.

[Danno]

  On 12/4/2011 at 2:18 AM, martinfan5 said:

And I think Dan is mad at me that I have not join the club yet, I can always mail my info and check to join

Ahh, contraire! Not mad at you, never mad at you, whether you see fit to join either of the local clubs, or not. You'd be welcome, but it's your choice entirely.

BTW - The current state of the hobby locally that I referred to is the two remaining Hobby Bench stores, the last remaining Hobbytown USA store in Gilbert, the Hobby Depot in Tempe, and Andy's Hobby Headquarters in Glendale.

[martinfan5]

Dan- I know I keep saying I am going to join, its just been really hard to find any extra time lately.

I went to the Hobby Town on 75th ave a few times before they shut down, and IIRC they had maybe 20 auto kits, so I was not sad to see them go. I remember going to Hobby Depot back in 1994, I was 14 when HD was a two isle store , what I remember the most was the owner always had is long barrel , I want to say .44, but could of been a .357

[Rob McKee]

  On 12/4/2011 at 3:00 AM, martinfan5 said:

There was a time where I looked forward to going to hobby stores, it was more about talking with the owners then about buying, but its not like that any more, well at least not for me, and its a shame because I miss that. So now I see our LHS as just another business, and treat them as such. And if some one else is offering what I want at a better price, I am going to buy from who offers the better price.

i would love to spend money at my LHS, but if I did , I wouldn't be doing much modeling . Not everyone on here or in the modeling world as ton's of extra income to spend, and I am sorry that it offends some people that some of us like to save some money on our hobby.

I am not offended at all if you or anyone else purchases a model or anything else from Walmart. I agree that if a model is cheaper at another store you should buy it. I am lucky enough to have several really well stocked hobby shops in the Vancouver area that I can choose from. I have been going into these shops for years and years (40+) in some cases and have built good relationships with the owners of most of them. They have rewarded my loyalty with discounts everytime I make a purchase. Anywhere from 10%-15% is the discount I usually receive. If I add up the savings I make on tools, paints, glues, and kits I think I save more on average than I would if I stuck to big stores.

There are or certainly have been hobby shops that carry a poor selection and don't really seem to care about their customers. I let them know with my money and never return.

So having said all that, it is a free world and we all can buy what we want where we want.

[martinfan5]

Rob- I miss the old days of our LHS and they way that they were, when you walked in you felt welcome, you just didnt feel like a customer, I can not speak for everyone, but for me those days are long gone. I still do shop at my LHS, and I need to check out the one Danno has kept telling me about , but its not for kits really anymore.

[Rob Hall]

Saw a few Revell kits at the local K-Mart...haven't seen any kits at the Wal-Marts near me in Central Phoenix...the only hobby shop I usually frequent is Hobby Depot (good new kit selection) in Tempe which is more convenient now that I work in downtown Tempe. The Hobby Bench at 19th Ave and Northern is close to home and they have a decent kit selection, but usually don't have the latest releases.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Rob Hall

[Rob Hall]

  On 12/4/2011 at 3:42 AM, martinfan5 said:

Dan- I know I keep saying I am going to join, its just been really hard to find any extra time lately.

I went to the Hobby Town on 75th ave a few times before they shut down, and IIRC they had maybe 20 auto kits, so I was not sad to see them go. I remember going to Hobby Depot back in 1994, I was 14 when HD was a two isle store , what I remember the most was the owner always had is long barrel , I want to say .44, but could of been a .357

There was a small hobby shop I went to once somewhere on the west side last summer where the proprietor had a gun on his hip...weird....Wild West stuff, I guess..not used to seeing people w/ guns in public like that.

[Casey]

  On 12/3/2011 at 6:19 PM, B-dub said:

I don't really have a LHS the only one's I have do R/C stuff and cary maybe 5 models =/

and yeah I freaked out walmart had a nice selection and all for 10-15$ !

I picked up a 2002 camaro ss/35th and an 85 mustang SVO

they also had a few other nice models but I made myself resist.

Other than the Ferrari California, SVO Mustang, and '67 and '62 Impalas, most of these kits appear to be older stock which *I think* Revell is discontinuing, so maybe that's why WalMart is carrying these kits? I did see the '02 Camaro is on clearance at Michael's, the green Monte Carlo has been replaced by the red version with stock wheels for a few months now, and I swear that '66 ElCo is being discontinued, too....

[Guest Johnny]

Great post Art! many do not realize that there are vast differences in what WalMart sells and what other stores sell, and I'm talking supposedly like items!

Go to an Ace and buy a Black and Decker cordless. Then buy the same one from Walmart. See which one lasts longer. I'll give you one guess!

Take something mechanical apart that comes from WalMart and one from another store and compare the parts used and you will be surprised at the difference!

Just like leaving all the extras out of a model kit to get it down to WalMarts price others use cheaper parts in their merchandise made specifically for Walmart!