Is Model building going to die off after our Generation goes?

[JustBill]

I truly believe that the scale automotive hobby will not entirely die. Enjoying miniatures will go on. But it will most likely be with whatever we leave them and a whole lot of scratchbuilding. I can't relate to 3D modeling - but it's really cool and I would think that as this process becomes more refined and cheaper - it will allow unlimited possibilities including original design.

The internet is and will always be a very good source of sharing info. This will also keep modeling alive. It won't die - just shrink.

I don't think modeling is uninteresting to youth due to subject matter - even those interested in cars respect the older stuff. Younger people are not inquizative about mechanical things. When I was a child I had mechanical toys like Take-apart-car. Legos. Erector-sets. As I got older - I took apart everything! Old hair driers, clock radios, etc. I used to go out to the garage and lift the hood on my mom's Mustang and just look at it. I wanted to know what it did inside. I read car magazines I bought with my allowance to feed my need for information. I still can't get enough automotive info or imagery. I love mechanical things.

Today many of our youth are waiting to be told what to do. They are so distracted by media - internet, social sites, video games, music, and texting, etc. They aren't allowed to get bored enough to take things apart. They want easy. Being inquizative isn't easy. Building models to the level found on this forum is most definately not easy.

I agree with a lot of what seeker has said here. Not only do I feel the youth, but society in general has lost the ability to figure things out for there selves. If there isn't something telling them how to go from point a to point b then it must be broke, or its not user friendly and they drop it and move on to the next thing. I myself only use the computer for recreational purposes. It saddens me to see how dependent living has become on them. If the computer goes down at my place of work then nothing gets done till they're back up. Its no different with cars now a days. If a sensor fails or the computer doesn't like something then the car is down. The times are gone that the average person can give it a "patch"or quick fix" to get it to the shop. You can't even really work on your own car anymore without a computer to tell you whats wrong with it and how to fix it. And its prolly not just with cars. I'm not of the "older crowd" here (29) but I'm told by wife that I have a old soul. I don't agree with technology and I'm always fighting it. I know its a loosing battle. I myself would much rather build cars from the 50's and 60's cause of the time that it represents rather then memories from that time. A time when things were much simpler and men worked for a living. Common sense and logic was the way of living. You could take something apart and fix it for a couple bucks instead of the part costing just as much as a new unit. Now if it doesn't work you just throw it away and get a new one. I don't think its an accurate assessment to just blame video games but rather technology in general for what I believe is gona be the down fall of this hobby. Society doesn't take pride in the things that it used to like automobiles as just one of many examples. Auto's have become throw away items. The change in generations is so great anymore that parents can hardly have anything in common with there kids unless the parents make the effort to be on they're level so to speak. Anything a parent does is yesterdays thing and gets thrown away.

[Dr. Cranky]

Christian, painting Warhammer/Warhammer 40K and building and playing those is good enough for me . . . it's still working with the imagination.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Dr. Cranky

[charlie8575]

I don't think modeling is uninteresting to youth due to subject matter - even those interested in cars respect the older stuff. Younger people are not inquizative about mechanical things. When I was a child I had mechanical toys like Take-apart-car. Legos. Erector-sets. As I got older - I took apart everything! Old hair driers, clock radios, etc. I used to go out to the garage and lift the hood on my mom's Mustang and just look at it. I wanted to know what it did inside. I read car magazines I bought with my allowance to feed my need for information. I still can't get enough automotive info or imagery. I love mechanical things.

Today many of our youth are waiting to be told what to do. They are so distracted by media - internet, social sites, video games, music, and texting, etc. They aren't allowed to get bored enough to take things apart. They want easy. Being inquizative isn't easy. Building models to the level found on this forum is most definately not easy.

Seeker

You are right about the problem with todays youth! My son and I built model Cars, and raced Slot Cars together, from the time he was eight years old, and we had a great time doing it. He now works as a Website Developer, and when he isn't at work he live on online Games and Social Sites. He has wrecked his health because he barely ever leaves his apartment. Erik lives on frozen dinners and take out, and he has gone from a Tall Muscular person to one that is severelly over weight. I also have two daughters that live on the Web and Video Games. All of their real world friends keep asking about them, and when I try to tell them their freinds would like to see them, they all say all of their real friends are on the Web.

I don't know what to do about it as they are now adults. I have talked to a lot of people that say their children are acting the same way. We live in Fla where there are a lot of storms, and if our web conection is enterupted me one Daughter acts like the world has come to an end!

I think both of you have made some very astute, and very accurate calls.

I look at my friends, my girlfriend, and a lot of other people in the under-40 crowd. Instant gratification, sheer laziness in too many cases, a lack of a desire to put in effort for anything unless it results in either (A) professional advancement (whether real or perceived,) or ( the acquisition of more electronic junk that's obsolete before you open the box.

My friends watch with what, in many cases, can only be described as amazement that I possess the patience and ability to assemble a model of any kind. Sometimes, I'll bring a kit with me while I'm waiting for a meeting or something else to start, and people will just gather and watch me do simple things- assemble an engine, paint something, remove mold lines, whatever the case may be. Tasks that may take only moments to many of my generation seems to equate to infinity.

I think the easy answer/instant gratification mindset is a far greater threat to not just hobbies, but society in general, and it's very troubling. I found the account of what has happened to Tom's children not only troubling, but something that I see more and more of, especially when i went back to undergraduate college in 2010-11 to re-train, and take a bit of a sabbatical, partially forced by the economy, partially by need for a break.

Younger people are so attached to their electronic junk that they disrupted everything from the cafeteria to classes. And with many of these kids' parents still using them as so-called "electronic tethers," I watched with amazement and horror simultaneously at the amount of how much the onset of maturity had been retarded by these behaviors. It troubles me, greatly. To the point that I'm considering designing a class around it for college once I complete my M.Ed.

Perhaps we, as modeling hobbyists, should make our hobby more visible. And use it as an allegory for the benefits of taking a slow, considered route through life. Unplugged, unbridled, no bleeping, blatting, buzzing disruptions. Just you, a few pieces of plastic and the tools to make your visions come to life.

Perhaps if we can use that as a way to demonstrate to people that greatness does not come immediately, but only with time, effort and skill, this might be the true key to helping rebuild our world culturally, socially and in terms of fundamental civilization.

Maybe we should stop saying "perhaps" and simply begin doing so. I'll leave exactly how to do that to each of you.

Charlie Larkin

[charlie8575]

I agree with a lot of what seeker has said here. Not only do I feel the youth, but society in general has lost the ability to figure things out for there selves. If there isn't something telling them how to go from point a to point b then it must be broke, or its not user friendly and they drop it and move on to the next thing. I myself only use the computer for recreational purposes. It saddens me to see how dependent living has become on them. If the computer goes down at my place of work then nothing gets done till they're back up. Its no different with cars now a days. If a sensor fails or the computer doesn't like something then the car is down. The times are gone that the average person can give it a "patch"or quick fix" to get it to the shop. You can't even really work on your own car anymore without a computer to tell you whats wrong with it and how to fix it. And its prolly not just with cars. I'm not of the "older crowd" here (29) but I'm told by wife that I have a old soul. I don't agree with technology and I'm always fighting it. I know its a loosing battle. I myself would much rather build cars from the 50's and 60's cause of the time that it represents rather then memories from that time. A time when things were much simpler and men worked for a living. Common sense and logic was the way of living. You could take something apart and fix it for a couple bucks instead of the part costing just as much as a new unit. Now if it doesn't work you just throw it away and get a new one. I don't think its an accurate assessment to just blame video games but rather technology in general for what I believe is gona be the down fall of this hobby. Society doesn't take pride in the things that it used to like automobiles as just one of many examples. Auto's have become throw away items. The change in generations is so great anymore that parents can hardly have anything in common with there kids unless the parents make the effort to be on they're level so to speak. Anything a parent does is yesterdays thing and gets thrown away.

I could've written about 98% of this myself. I agree with just about everything here, Bill, and have a similar problem with my girlfriend, who just looks at what I do, and goes and plays her video games, although she can at least appreciate the time and effort I put into things.

She, at 29, exhibits many of the childish behaviors I alluded to above, and you also discussed in the age group. I'm 36 and most people are convinced I was born ready for Social Security, although some people will try to be nice and call me an "old soul." But, such is life. It's one of the ways we balance each other out.

You can take the lead and show your age group (our generation, really,) that technology isn't the the be-all, end-all, and it's not the answer to all the problems.

I'm laughed at...for my 35mm camera, my drafting board, my ledger books, my adding machine, and my typewriter.

Until everyone's electronic junk breaks, the batteries go dead or the power goes out. And I happen to be the only one still getting things done. While I have had the batteries go dead in the camera (the reason I had no pictures from NNL-East this year,) I just keep clicking along without artificial, digital tethers.

Charlie Larkin

[niteowl7710]

I feel stupid that I even have to type this, but so a flame war doesn't develop - *DISCLAIMER* - The following comments are not directed at any one poster or posters in this thread or at MCM. But speak to the general sentiment some members have here about the subject matter contained within - Reader Discretion is advised*

The plain and simple fact is someone has always had SOMETHING to complain about when it comes to technology.

What are these new trains you speak of? My team of oxen can move any good more reliably and dependably. Sure go ahead use your steam powered contraption, it will never catch on!!!

People were furious when automobiles came into being, because they scared the horses on the street. I'm sure that if you could go back into the early 1900's you'd hear plenty of people complaining about them, and how horses never break down, etc.

What's this you turn a KEY to start your car? NOOOOOO I prefer the days when they had cranks on the front. You go ahead with your fancy key start, but when that doesn't work, I can always crank my car to a start...

And so on and so forth...I believe that the so called "downfall" of the automobile in the sense that it's an appliance (as some here call it) is the simple fact that everyone has one. It's not a big deal anymore. Even when I was growing up in the 1980's my parents only had one car, which my dad drove to work. So doing anything during the day (shopping, doctor's appointments, etc) required driving my dad to work in downtown Pittsburgh, then going back out to the suburbs, and returning to pick him up at the end of his work day. It wasn't until I was nearly a teenager that my family had the ability to afford a second car.

Let's step back in time again for a second...it was a BIG deal to have a telephone at one point (for the longest time my grandparents abjectly REFUSED to get touch tone dialing, along with a *gasp* CORDLESS phone), it was a BIG deal to have a radio at one point, then it was a BIG deal to have a television set, then it was a BIG deal to have your OWN PERSONAL computer. For a sports fan you might toss in it was a big deal to have cable, and then a large screen TV set of some sort. My family used to talk about the party they had when they got a TV set for the first time, with everyone coming over to watch it. People used to gather around these events, along with the purchase of a new vehicle. Now if you come home with a Corvette, your neighbors are probably just going to come to the conclusion that you're having a mid-life crisis. But all of the technology in that previous example was NEW and HATED by people at one point. Now I bet a fair amount of people here don't even have landlines, but rather just a cellphone. Who has a separate radio anymore? And how many TV's does your house have?

I get being put off, or even intimidated by new tech. I don't get the point of an iPad, it's a computer...sorta, with no keyboard. I can't possibly see how that's a useful tool. For years I clung to my dying ancient flip cell phone, because I didn't need a camera and computer, I needed a TELEPHONE. But I finally had to break down and get a new one, which is a "smart" phone, and ya know what...it's pretty flippin' handy to have all that stuff in one place. For years after they were ubiquitous and everywhere I resisted getting a digital camera. I shot 35MM film, had a nice SLR, and that was that. Now I have a very nice DSLR and wouldn't go back to shooting film for the world. (To pick on Charlie a bit - I feel I can do that to my friend) I can shoot circles around Charlie's camera, even when he has batteries in his camera. I can shoot several thousand photos that will be just as good, if not better than anything his camera is capable of, I never have to reload the thing, don't have to spend money on film (a one time $40 investment in a 12GB memory card), and I don't have to pay to have bad photos processed. I can see instantly what my camera captured. Best of all, the prints I DO want made into hard copies cost me 5 cents, I don't even know what it costs to get a roll processed anymore, it was over $5 last time I had one done years ago. Does this mean we can't be friends or get along? No. He does it his way, I do it my way, his way just seems awfully expensive and complicated.

Furthermore where exactly does technology "hating" end? Would the seasoned citizens of this board like us to roll back all the medical tech too? I'm not even talking about drugs, but rather procedures and whatnot. No saving any of you from heart attacks with AEDs. Got cancer? Put your big boy pants on and tough it out to the grave cause we're taking away chemo and radiation therapy. No hip or knee replacements, I don't know how your gonna test your blood glucose, and you can kiss that Hover-Round good bye! Failing eyesight? Totally taking your lighted visor, those LEDs and advances in optics and plastics that make the whole ball of wax function are evil evil technology.

Gonna take away all your hobby tech too, no more photo-etch or resin. No more acrylic paints either. Back to those old enamel cans and bottles. Hell back to models that were blocks of wood. Let's see how good everyone here is at whittlin' themselves a Ferrari!

My overall point being you can't pick and choose your technology. Kicking and screaming at it doesn't do any good either. Is it more complicated to fix your car now than it was in 1967? You bet your hiney it is. Could you, if you applied yourself to learning the tech, and investing in the tools necessary do it? Yes you could. Under all those plastic covers and whatnot is still an internal combustion engine. You might have to take some specialized training and/or *gasp* adapt your knowledge base to do it. My cousin is a diesel tech at the local Ford garage, and I like to tease him about how he just plugs in a computer and downloads the trucks fixed. But underneath it all you're still busting knuckles and spinning wrenches to fix it.

Don't know how the internet works...go learn how. Don't understand how the MCM forums stays afloat and operates (in a technical sense), go educate yourself. It really is that simple. There's nothing scary about new tech, it may be more complicated, and require more education/study to master it, but once you master something you find it's not that scary anymore. This is directly applicable to THIS hobby. Were you scared of your airbrush, terrified of the results of your paint jobs, were you nervous about photo-etch, did the idea of pouring resin puzzle you to no end?

I'm guessing that through coming online (BAD BAD NEW TECH) to this and other forums (EVIL TECH!), perhaps watching YouTube (EEEEEEVIL TECH!!!) and perhaps exchanging e-mails or PMs (NOOOO EVIL TECH!!!) with those people who knew what they were doing you learned the proper techniques, and then through practice and application you to now can do whatever it was that you considered "beyond your skill set". To make this hobby and thread related, I believe the next big thing will be 3-D Printing. Models ON-DEMAND! Now if you need that one cool make or break part for your next build, you can just print it out. The people who want to, and are inclined to make the commitment are going to have to learn AutoCAD or something quite like it to be able to design parts that don't have a file that exists, but those people are also the ones that you're going to give your money to, to get said part, if you refuse to educate yourself!

Technology itself hasn't done anything to civilization as whole other than to help it. It's akin to the old "Guns don't kill people, people do". Learning, mastering and applying new tech doesn't make you a slave to it. Knowing how to get onto MCM and use Photobucket (or whatever) to share your builds, your passion and your opinions with the rest of us didn't make you a slave did it? Just like having a PS3, a Facebook account, or anything else I see constantly berated around here doesn't mean you have to use them to the extreme and exclude all other forms of entertainment and societal interaction.

Having spent a fair amount of time out in the real world of assembly lines and factories, and now in the natural gas fields of the Marcellus Shale, I can tell you without a doubt there are real men still doing "real work", and they all take great pride and satisfaction from that work. It's fun sometimes to poke fun at the lazy UAW guy, but the large majority of those guys really do take pride in making that new fangled car full of technology you hate, that you wouldn't buy because it was made after 1972.

[Harry P.]

I think you have just officially replaced Art Anderson for the "Longest Post Ever" award...

[niteowl7710]

I think you have just officially replaced Art Anderson for the "Longest Post Ever" award...

WHOOO! Do I get a t-shirt? Or maybe a Purdue bumper sticker?

[Harry P.]

WHOOO! Do I get a t-shirt? Or maybe a Purdue bumper sticker?

[fumi]

The change in generations is so great anymore that parents can hardly have anything in common with there kids unless the parents make the effort to be on they're level so to speak. Anything a parent does is yesterdays thing and gets thrown away.

I find it interesting to have this come out from someone younger than me. Fact is, I never had any common interests with my folks while I was growing up. They were dismissive about my interest in plastic models, and the music I listened to was just "noise" and "wouldn't stand up to the test of time". Yet we got along just fine. And I'm pretty sure it was the same with them and their parents.

[JustBill]

Haha! James your a trip man. I'd love to be able to sit and have a conversation with you. Maybe I came off a little one sided in my first post. Do I HATE technology? Not necessarily. But I do believe its crossed lines and when do we say its too much? Like you, I'm in the industrial field as well. And like you I'm sure, I've seen a lot of jobs taken due to technology as have everyone else. I'm sure your thinking yea yea same old song and dance but its happening more and more and faster and faster to the point that everything will be controlled by computers and what good will people serve? There are some wonderful things that come from technology and I'm sure that will continue but I also see people who can't seem to put there phone down and look at you just to have a simple conversation. I was at a bull and oyster roast last week and there was a guy there who's phone sat right in front of him the whole time. He got up to dance and his phone was in one hand the whole time. I just don't get it sometimes. I'm a forklift technician and all the lifts are more electrical then mechanical anymore. So I can relate to your friend at the Ford dealership. Just seems to me that we have lost sight of what purposes things serve. I'm just more of a simpler person and don't need a phone as a computer. Only need it to call someone. I like technology to a certain point but some things just seem blown out of proportion.

[JustBill]

I find it interesting to have this come out from someone younger than me. Fact is, I never had any common interests with my folks while I was growing up. They were dismissive about my interest in plastic models, and the music I listened to was just "noise" and "wouldn't stand up to the test of time". Yet we got along just fine. And I'm pretty sure it was the same with them and their parents.

Ok, so your about my age, do you have kids? I have three I'm raising, 17, 12, and 8. There is only 12 yrs between me and the 17yr od and there is a huge generation gap there. I can only imagine it getting worse as time goes on due to how fast technology moves. I get along with my folks just fine too but from me to my kids, totally different world.

[fumi]

Ok, so your about my age, do you have kids? I have three I'm raising, 17, 12, and 8. There is only 12 yrs between me and the 17yr od and there is a huge generation gap there. I can only imagine it getting worse as time goes on due to how fast technology moves. I get along with my folks just fine too but from me to my kids, totally different world.

I don't recall it was particularly smooth between me and my parents when I was 17, neither.

I guess it has less to do with technology and more to do with teenagers being, well, teenagers.

[Rob Hall]

Good post James...it's best to just ignore the grumbling of the luddites and carry on

[CadillacPat]

People who were born in the last 30 or 40 years only have life experience within those 30 or 40 years.

They are stuck with the last 40 years as their view of the world and have no life reference of what came before.

Of course they can always Google to answer any questions.

They can't really relate to how unemcumbered and logically things were once designed without all the unnecessary built in costs.

Many need a GPS to get from their living room to the garage so they can turn on their other GPS to find the driveway.

It's flagrantly naive to think the car companies today want to make our lives better, they want to add on all the cost they can to a vehicle.

People born in 1950 have more than 60 years to draw upon to accurately gauge whether or not the car industry has improved or gone downhill (pun intended).

We rode in cars that were built for the American Dream, and have the experience of both then and now, of 25 years of beautul cars and then seeing it all come to a stop.

But those born in the last 40 years have only the last 30 or so years of recall, consisting mostly of same size, same shape, same style cars.

No one is trying to hurt any feelings here, it's just a fact.

That extra 20 years of life and history gives us much more data to draw our conclusions from.

The socalled "improvements" to todays cramped look a like vehicles are not for anyones enjoyment, don't be naive, they are for profits.

Bib Brother telling people,"These improvements are for your safety. Now you have to pay for them and we will collect the extra taxes."

I don't see the more experienced Modelers complaining about Technology because most are quite aware that some Technology actually does improve things (like the Automatic Trunk Release) but Technology for the sake of Technology, for the sake of profit, makes fools of those who never question it and slaves of those who are forced to use it.

And face it, the design of cars today, I should say modes of transportation, is forced on the public.

CadillacPat

[Harry P.]

I think most of the technology on today's cars is all for the better. And a lot of it is on there not because the automakers are padding their profit, it's because the feds forced them to add those things. Sure, cars were simpler and more straightforward 40 years ago. But that was before the EPA, and before federal safety and economy standards were put in place.

Plus, today's consumers want and expect the "bells and whistles." They expect a car to have a killer sound system, a GPS system, a bazillion cupholders, heated seats, etc., etc. People today want that stuff in their cars, so the automakers are giving the people what they want.

However... there are examples of technology for technology's sake. Like BMW's ridiculously complicated I Drive system. Tuning in a radio station was once a simple process that required a twist of a knob. Now, you need an advanced degree to figure out how to do it. That sort of over-the-top complication of a simple process for no good reason other than the "wow" factor is a step backwards, IMO. Tuning a radio should not require a session with the owner' manual.

[CadillacPat]

Harry, the Feds forced the technology because the Car Company Lobbyists paid them to.

CadillacPat

[Chuck Most]

But those born in the last 40 years have only the last 30 or so years of recall, consisting mostly of same size, same shape, same style cars.

Same size, same shape, same style cars. You mean like the '50's, when every car was 20 feet long, had tailfins, a huge wraparound windshield, and acres of brightwork? Or the '40's, when every car had pontoon fenders? Or maybe the '70's, when all the US manufacturers had full-blown love affairs power-bulge hoods and formal roof lines? Yeah, this 'all cars look the same' idea must be a symptom of the modern era.

[Rob Hall]

Plus, today's consumers want and expect the "bells and whistles." They expect a car to have a killer sound system, a GPS system, a bazillion cupholders, heated seats, etc., etc. People today want that stuff in their cars, so the automakers are giving the people what they want.

True...if there was more demand for stripped models w/ AM radios and crank windows, the companies would build them. In a daily driver that I'm going to spend an hour or more in every day I want it loaded w/ all the modern creature comforts...

However... there are examples of technology for technology's sake. Like BMW's ridiculously complicated I Drive system. Tuning in a radio station was once a simple process that required a twist of a knob. Now, you need an advanced degree to figure out how to do it. That sort of over-the-top complication of a simple process for no good reason other than the "wow" factor is a step backwards, IMO. Tuning a radio should not require a session with the owner' manual.

Another thing I find annoying like iDrive is the push-button start systems.. I don't see much value in not putting the key in the ignition.

[CadillacPat]

Same size, same shape, same style cars. You mean like the '50's, when every car was 20 feet long, had tailfins, a huge wraparound windshield, and acres of brightwork? Or the '40's, when every car had pontoon fenders? Or maybe the '70's, when all the US manufacturers had full-blown love affairs power-bulge hoods and formal roof lines? Yeah, this 'all cars look the same' idea must be a symptom of the modern era.

Every car Chuck??????

Didn't all that "wide open American styling" produce cars that could be distinguised from one another from half a mile away on the highway, day or night????

The '57 Chevy and '57 Plymouth had gorgeus huge fins but anyone can tell them apart. The same comparison can be said over and over, wild and outlandish, beautiful and sexy, spacious and epic proportions, but all of them easily told apart.

CadillacPat

Edited April 29, 2012 by CadillacPat

[niteowl7710]

Harry, the Feds forced the technology because the Car Company Lobbyists paid them to.

CadillacPat

So in your view there was some dark smoke filled boiler-room full of Senators and Big 3 Lobbyists in 1985 swapping money and influence so the Feds would make the Center High Mount Stop Light mandatory in 1986?

[Rob Hall]

Every car Chuck??????

Didn't all that "wide open American styling" produce cars that could be distinguised from one another from half a mile away on the highway, day or night????

The '57 Chevy and '57 Plymouth had gorgeus huge fins but anyone can tell them apart. The same comparison can be said over and over, wild and outlandish, beautiful and sexy, spacious and epic proportions, but all of them easily told apart.

CadillacPat

No different from today...take a typical '12 Ford or Chevy, '12 Hyundai or Honda...anyone can easily tell them apart if they pay attention to modern cars.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Rob Hall

[Harry P.]

Another thing I find annoying like iDrive is the push-button start systems.. I don't see much value in not putting the key in the ignition.

Plus, don't you have to shut the engine off by turning the key? In other words, you need the key in the ignition anyway... so what's the point of pushbutton start? Answer: enough consumers think it's "cool," so automakers offer it.

[Rob Hall]

So in your view there was some dark smoke filled boiler-room full of Senators and Big 3 Lobbyists in 1985 swapping money and influence so the Feds would make the Center High Mount Stop Light mandatory in 1986?

Sounds like tinfoil hat conspiracy theory stuff to me..

[Rob Hall]

Plus, don't you have to shut the engine off by turning the key? In other words, you need the key in the ignition anyway... so what's the point of pushbutton start? Answer: enough consumers think it's "cool," so automakers offer it.

Not sure about other brands, but on Cadillacs you push and hold in the button to shut the engine off w/ the car in park. The key can stay in your pocket or in the console all the time...I've left the key in my car several times, still getting used to the push button.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Rob Hall

[Chuck Most]

No different from today...take a typical '12 Ford or Chevy, '12 Hyundai or Honda...anyone can easily tell them apart if they pay attention to modern cars.

Basically what I'm getting at. Even someone who might be lost in earlier automotive era could pick a Fusion or Camry out of a lineup of modern-day sedans. I just think the 'all cars look the same' mentality is questionable when it's only applied to modern cars, because it has pretty much held true the entire history of the auto industry. One manufacturer comes out with a style or design that 'works' with the buying public, and the competition will follow suit sooner or later. Same as it ever was.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Chuck Most