Is Model building going to die off after our Generation goes?

[Art Laski]

The local Hobbytown USA has contests about 3 times a year. I am trying to do my part in keeping the hobby alive. I am organizing a 1:1 car show for this weekend on Sat. Hobbytown USA is hosting their contest at the car show as well as I purchased a st of kits for a "Make and Take" for the younger kids. I want this hobby to go on because that is where I got my start in cars. See post http://www.modelcars...showtopic=56698

I got excited for a moment that there might be another local contest, but Texas is a bit away from Laguna Niguel!

[Chuck Kourouklis]

Now as somebody with actual experience of several generations of Mustang, I can only characterize certain observations of the current one as ridiculous on their face, redolent and reeking of willful, mulish ignorance and the very worst kind of nostalgia.

It was my Mom's original-order Frost Turquoise '67 289 hardtop more responsible than any other vehicle for starting me on this crazy love affair. It was the first car I learned to drive on. It's beautiful to this day. You stop it by slamming all your leg muscles onto the non-assisted, 4-wheel drum brake system and praying. Cornering and steering feel are theoretical at best. But hey, for its 190 gross ('round 135-140 net) hp, you might get 22 mpg downhill with a tailwind.

My first car was a '70 hardtop with the first of three 302s I would own. Brakes were a lot better on that car; in fact, it would gladly swap lanes in a panic stop, they were so quick to lock. Had more feel in the steering too, even though you'd spend all day muscling it from one non-assisted stop to the other. It had some notion of handling too, long as that notion was sideways.

Did time in a '77 Ghia II, one of the key reasons I have no nostalgia at all for ANY p o s built between 1973 and around 1982. Less said about it, the better.

My first new car was a 1993 5.0 LX, the 2nd 302. Now we were getting somewhere. You could lean on a front fender and not compress the suspension. It rode like a freakin' coal cart, and it could get tail-happy at the most inopportune times. But it would have spanked either of my two first-generation Mustangs on ANY level of performance, with better economy to boot.

On to my '11 GT, the anodyne, the faceless government car with less room than an Opel GT, oh PLEASE. It's been trouble-free these first 18,000 miles, the first of the four cars I've bought new I can actually say that about. It's got a level of comfort and confidence-insipration the previous cars couldn't even imagine. It is violently more capable than both the '93 and the '01 LS F-car that preceded it, and it trumps the '93's fuel economy with double the horsepower. And ANYONE who feels retarded enough can turn off traction control with one press of the Advance Track button and hoon its Pirellis down to the bare belts. Now THERE are some "facts".

Edited April 27, 2012 by Chuck Kourouklis
cleaned up by da Big Kahuna

[martinfan5]

I kind of like the Toyota 86, The US version its badged as the Sicon, I for sure will be getting one of the kits when it comes out

Let me clear something up, it may have seen or come off like I have something against older car kits, I dont, I just think there is going to come a time in the next 10-20 years where the Model companys are going to have to think about and start putting more kits out that a little newer.

I like to be able to build kits of cars that I know of and have some knowledge about, with stuff from the 40's-60's, I dont, so that means a lot research, which dont get me wrong , I like doing research, but then it starts to be come a chore, thus taking the fun out of this hobby.

[Gregg]

We all have our opinions, but to bash other's opinions, is going to get you banned, and kicked out of this forum.

As for my two cents (I expect some change back please), I think the hobby will grow in ways that none of us ever imagined.

I have seen some of the new work by our friends Tim and the others here that do that 3D modeling/printing (sorry if other names slipped by me right now), and the quality has gotten better and better it seems every month.

Sure, the price is high right now, but the possibilities will be endless.

As for the video games, I hope that they are bringing in modelers, and this is something I will pursue. I just got hold of a PS3 Gran Turismo 5, and I want to build some of the cars in my garage now! There are some awesome rides there, and I hope that I can bring others into our hobby this way. The PS3 is something I can do when I am down for the count (which is most of the days now), and it does give me inspiration to look for new models to build.

With that, I have seen some great new companies popping up, with some diverse and unique subject matters being produced. You'll have to wait for the printed reviews to see what I'm talking about.

So, in closing, keep this civil.

We all have opinions, and we/you have to learn to respect them, and treat them as you would like your opinions to be treated.

Unless you are just looking for a fight, then, mi pana, you are in the wrong place.

[martinfan5]

Gregg, I get a lot of my build ideas from Grand Tursimo 5

[lordairgtar]

What I don't understand is the "Buy American" mantra. Who cares? They're all made in China anyway, other than the Revell AG stuff that is made in Poland then packaged here.

Actually, Lindberg and some selected Monogram subjects are made in teh US

[lordairgtar]

Model companies are going to produce kits of cars they see the broader market as wanting--and from the looks of things, they are hitting things pretty much right from their business perspective. Sure, the modern exotics seem all to come from Japanese or European manufacturers, but then consider that Japan hasn't got much in the way of any automotive heritage prior to the 1970's, and while europeans were buying some pretty neat daily driver stuff prior to the 60's, a lot of that heritage was lost forever in the horrible years 1939-45.

Art

Interesting. Japan's automotive history goes back a lot further and there has been some interesting things out of japan.

http://www.toyota.co.jp/Museum/data_e/a03_08_7_3.html

http://www.toyota.co.jp/Museum/data_e/a03_08_2_1.html

http://www.toyota.co.jp/Museum/data_e/a03_08_3_3.html

http://www.toyota.co.jp/Museum/data_e/a03_08_3_1.html

http://www.toyota.co.jp/Museum/data_e/a03_13_1_7.html

[Harry P.]

Gotta agree with Gregg K... Japanese auto heritage dates back to waaaaaay before the '70s...

[martinfan5]

Gotta agree with Gregg K... Japanese auto heritage dates back to waaaaaay before the '70s...

Same with the European's cars as well

[garryrenfro]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-24-Scale-Short-Nosed-Jaguar-D-Type-Model-Car-Body-/300530320782?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f900c58e#ht_500wt_1177

[seeker589]

I truly believe that the scale automotive hobby will not entirely die. Enjoying miniatures will go on. But it will most likely be with whatever we leave them and a whole lot of scratchbuilding. I can't relate to 3D modeling - but it's really cool and I would think that as this process becomes more refined and cheaper - it will allow unlimited possibilities including original design.

The internet is and will always be a very good source of sharing info. This will also keep modeling alive. It won't die - just shrink.

I don't think modeling is uninteresting to youth due to subject matter - even those interested in cars respect the older stuff. Younger people are not inquizative about mechanical things. When I was a child I had mechanical toys like Take-apart-car. Legos. Erector-sets. As I got older - I took apart everything! Old hair driers, clock radios, etc. I used to go out to the garage and lift the hood on my mom's Mustang and just look at it. I wanted to know what it did inside. I read car magazines I bought with my allowance to feed my need for information. I still can't get enough automotive info or imagery. I love mechanical things.

Today many of our youth are waiting to be told what to do. They are so distracted by media - internet, social sites, video games, music, and texting, etc. They aren't allowed to get bored enough to take things apart. They want easy. Being inquizative isn't easy. Building models to the level found on this forum is most definately not easy.

Edited April 28, 2012 by seeker589

[Tom Setzer]

Seeker

You are right about the problem with todays youth! My son and I built model Cars, and raced Slot Cars together, from the time he was eight years old, and we had a great time doing it. He now works as a Website Developer, and when he isn't at work he live on online Games and Social Sites. He has wrecked his health because he barely ever leaves his apartment. Erik lives on frozen dinners and take out, and he has gone from a Tall Muscular person to one that is severelly over weight. I also have two daughters that live on the Web and Video Games. All of their real world friends keep asking about them, and when I try to tell them their freinds would like to see them, they all say all of their real friends are on the Web.

I don't know what to do about it as they are now adults. I have talked to a lot of people that say their children are acting the same way. We live in Fla where there are a lot of storms, and if our web conection is enterupted me one Daughter acts like the world has come to an end!

[Art Anderson]

Same with the European's cars as well

By stating that Japan has very little in the way of an automotive heritage prior to the 1960's, I think I am right. To be sure, there were cars and trucks being built in Japan prior to say, 1960, but they were very few in number, most never seen today by even people in that country.

Bear in mind here, a Century ago, Japan was still an agrarian (farm oriented) society, only barely an open society. The Japanese Navy that defeated the Imperial Russian Fleet at the Battle of Toshiba Strait in 1905 was virtually ENTIRELY built in British shipyards, indeed several older battleships that the US Navy faced in the Second World War were built either by Vickers in England, or were direct copies thereof. Japanese automobiles were few in number as well. Keep in mind that when speaking of Japan, we are looking at a country whose main asset was, and still is, a very industrious society, but a country pretty much devoid of what we consider to be "natural resources". Japan has virtually no iron ore, nor any other mineral deposits of the likes found in the Western Hemisphere, Europe or Scandinavia. Japan has very little in the way of coal, and certainly almost no oil underground--all things necessary for the manufacture of things such as automobiles.

During the 1930's, Japan was marching toward conquest--Manchuria in 1932 was to become their source for fuel (coal) and also iron ore for making steel. Japan looked to our country for those resources as well, including oil in crude form as well as gasoline--and bought huge quantities of scrap metals from the US. Even His Imperial Majesty, Emperor Hirohito, rode in a limousine built in Germany, by Daimler, a Mercedes (I believe he rode in that car to meet with General of the Army Douglas McArthur who was appointed the US Military Governor of Japan in September 1945, to tender his respects to McArthur). This is NOT to denigrate anyone in Japan--but the history books do detail all of what I am saying here. When Tokyo was devastated by a massive earthquake in the early 1920's (which Japan responded to US aid by sending hundreds of Cherry Tree seedlings to Washington DC, which was the impetus for the annual Cherry Tree Festival in our Nation's capital city nowadays), Tokyo turned to US manufacturers, most notably Ahrens-Fox, for modern firefighting equipment (and during the Second World War, those Cincinatti-built piston pumpers performed yeoman duty!).

Yes, the likes of Toyota and Nissan existed, but as very small producers, mostly of light commercial vehicles, and with the coming of war to Japan in the 1930's, military vehicles. Mitsubishi was primarily involved in shipbuilding and of course, military aircraft through to the end of hostilities on September 1, 1945.

At war's end in 1945, heavy industry as we know it today in Japan was virtually non-existant--several years of B-29 bombing raids, along with US Navy carrier aircraft saw to that during a very intense and tragic war; and Japan was forced to rebuild all of that, generate enough foreign exchange to be able to buy the resources necessary to support such as an auto industry. Bear in mind that Honda, today a major power in the world Auto Industry, started out making motorized bicycles in the late 1940's (as did Peugeot in France, and several iconic but now gone US carmakers, BTW). Subaru didn't get started until the 1960's for all intents and purposes. Kawasaki began by making aircraft and ships for the Japanese army and navy, only coming into the civilian market in the postwar era--on and on.

So when I say that Japan has very little in the way of an automotive heritage prior to say, 1960, I believe I am pretty much right; they didn't have the resources, nor really much of a market at home prior to that, for all the reasons I have sketched out here. Yes, there were a smattering of Japanese vehicles, but they were few and far between, until the economic miracles those of us in our 60's and beyond in this country have witnessed.

In short, Japan has experienced the Industrial Revolution in less than half the time that it took for Western Europe, even this country to go from a rather primitive, agrarian/shopkeeper economy to being an industrial superpower. And in that, I do respect Japan, and the Japanese people for all they have accomplished.

'Nuff said? I think so.

Art Anderson

[Art Anderson]

Same with the European's cars as well

By stating that Japan has very little in the way of an automotive heritage prior to the 1960's, I think I am right. To be sure, there were cars and trucks being built in Japan prior to say, 1960, but they were very few in number, most never seen today by even people in that country.

Bear in mind here, a Century ago, Japan was still an agrarian (farm oriented) society, only barely an open society. The Japanese Navy that defeated the Imperial Russian Fleet at the Battle of Toshiba Strait in 1905 was virtually ENTIRELY built in British shipyards, indeed several older battleships that the US Navy faced in the Second World War were built either by Vickers in England, or were direct copies thereof. Japanese automobiles were few in number as well. Keep in mind that when speaking of Japan, we are looking at a country whose main asset was, and still is, a very industrious society, but a country pretty much devoid of what we consider to be "natural resources". Japan has virtually no iron ore, nor any other mineral deposits of the likes found in the Western Hemisphere, Europe or Scandinavia. Japan has very little in the way of coal, and certainly almost no oil underground--all things necessary for the manufacture of things such as automobiles.

During the 1930's, Japan was marching toward conquest--Manchuria in 1932 was to become their source for fuel (coal) and also iron ore for making steel. Japan looked to our country for those resources as well, including oil in crude form as well as gasoline--and bought huge quantities of scrap metals from the US. Even His Imperial Majesty, Emperor Hirohito, rode in a limousine built in Germany, by Daimler, a Mercedes (I believe he rode in that car to meet with General of the Army Douglas McArthur who was appointed the US Military Governor of Japan in September 1945, to tender his respects to McArthur). This is NOT to denigrate anyone in Japan--but the history books do detail all of what I am saying here. When Tokyo was devastated by a massive earthquake in the early 1920's (which Japan responded to US aid by sending hundreds of Cherry Tree seedlings to Washington DC, which was the impetus for the annual Cherry Tree Festival in our Nation's capital city nowadays), Tokyo turned to US manufacturers, most notably Ahrens-Fox, for modern firefighting equipment (and during the Second World War, those Cincinatti-built piston pumpers performed yeoman duty!).

Yes, the likes of Toyota and Nissan existed, but as very small producers, mostly of light commercial vehicles, and with the coming of war to Japan in the 1930's, military vehicles. Mitsubishi was primarily involved in shipbuilding and of course, military aircraft through to the end of hostilities on September 1, 1945.

At war's end in 1945, heavy industry as we know it today in Japan was virtually non-existant--several years of B-29 bombing raids, along with US Navy carrier aircraft saw to that during a very intense and tragic war; and Japan was forced to rebuild all of that, generate enough foreign exchange to be able to buy the resources necessary to support such as an auto industry. Bear in mind that Honda, today a major power in the world Auto Industry, started out making motorized bicycles in the late 1940's (as did Peugeot in France, and several iconic but now gone US carmakers, BTW). Subaru didn't get started until the 1960's for all intents and purposes. Kawasaki began by making aircraft and ships for the Japanese army and navy, only coming into the civilian market in the postwar era--on and on.

So when I say that Japan has very little in the way of an automotive heritage prior to say, 1960, I believe I am pretty much right; they didn't have the resources, nor really much of a market at home prior to that, for all the reasons I have sketched out here. Yes, there were a smattering of Japanese vehicles, but they were few and far between, until the economic miracles those of us in our 60's and beyond in this country have witnessed.

In short, Japan has experienced the Industrial Revolution in less than half the time that it took for Western Europe, even this country to go from a rather primitive, agrarian/shopkeeper economy to being an industrial superpower. And in that, I do respect Japan, and the Japanese people for all they have accomplished.

'Nuff said? I think so.

Art Anderson

[Art Anderson]

Same with the European's cars as well

Bear in mind, the gasoline automobile truly had its start in Europe, primarily in Germany then France, before the dawn of the 20th Century. I know that, have never ignored, nor denigrated that fact.

Art

[Jon Cole]

All interesting historical stuff, Art. Thanks! I would draw a blank if I had to picture Japanese pre-war mass produced automobiles.

Which means, someone here will post just that!

Edited April 28, 2012 by Jon Cole

[Junkman]

The Japanese are just now waking up to their automotive heritage.

It is a cultural thing. For the longest time, Japanese people wanted their stuff new. Even cars only a few years old were considered extremely outdated and 'unwanted'. It's the younger generation that recently (in our terms) started to resurrect older cars, especially from the seventies and eighties, and there is a fully fleged 'nostalgia wave' going on now. Interestingly, they still call their cars 'unwanted' in a clear case of self-mockery.

The Japanese government has responded to this growing trend and pre-1985 cars are now exempt from the stringent roadworthiness and emissions tests.

This is reflected in the offerings of the Japanese model car industry, which include ever more seventies and eighties cars. And the first foray into the sixties has been made, too, with the Fujimi Prince Skyline S54J. There will be more to come, that's certain.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Junkman

[Harry P.]

All interesting historical stuff, Art. Thanks! I would draw a blank if I had to picture Japanese pre-war mass produced automobiles.

Which means, someone here will post just that!

Here ya go. 1930 Datsun 91:

[modelmike]

It pains me to say it but yes it will.... modeling has no immediate gratification that todays youth have learned to depend on...

[Dr. Cranky]

I am a strong believer kids can be brought into the hobby and maintained interested. I have a friend who has been building model planes with his son, who is 7, and the kid is crazy about planes. He says he's going to grow up to be a pilot and an aeronautical engineer . . .

One kid at a time, the hobby can be rebuilt this way, and it's up to us, the older generations to help. Again, just my 2 cents worth.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Dr. Cranky

[sjordan]

The Toyota Automobile Museum in Nagoya, Japan has an excellent collection of great cars from around the world, plus a lot of Japanese cars you may never have seen before. Check out the Possessions list. (In fact, many of their cars served as the basis for a number of model kits boxed by Entex, Gunze Sangyo, Revell, etc., several in 1/16 scale. The Entex/Anmark/Gunze/Revell 1937 Rolls Phantom III is one of them.)

If you look on the other thread about kits you never knew existed, you'll see many examples of mundane daily drivers, post-60s, that never were issued officially in the US. Meanwhile, the Japanese kitmakers and Revell of Germany continue to fill the need for exotics (I wonder how that might change now that RoG is back under the overall REvell brand).

http://www.toyota.co.jp/Museum/

I have no idea about the production numbers of the homegrown cars, but Toyota is trying to bring to light and preserve the country's automotive heritage.

Edited April 28, 2012 by sjordan

[Fat Brian]

I want to say something about video games since they are being brought up a lot. I love video games, I play all kinds and can do so from morning til night for weeks on end. But eventually they wear thin and I'm back on models or building 3d models on the computer. The thing is, you can enjoy video games without them being your whole life or being a brain dead ADD addled basket case. Video games are one of my many interests and I kind of rotate between them every so often.

[JMD904]

Kits seem to be dissapearing more and more; As a avid model railroader, in the past 5 years, everything is becoming Ready-To-Run. Before ya know it, kits will almost be assembled and everything pre-painted!

[martinfan5]

I want to say something about video games since they are being brought up a lot. I love video games, I play all kinds and can do so from morning til night for weeks on end. But eventually they wear thin and I'm back on models or building 3d models on the computer. The thing is, you can enjoy video games without them being your whole life or being a brain dead ADD addled basket case. Video games are one of my many interests and I kind of rotate between them every so often.

I have a Xbox 360, and a PS3, and I grew always having a gaming system, but still built models as well, I love both, I dont play as much video games as much as use to do.

[Junkman]

I am a strong believer kids can be brought into the hobby and maintained interested. I have a friend who has been building model planes with his son, who is 7, and the kid is crazy about planes. He says he's going to grow up to be a pilot and an aeronautical engineer . . .

One kid at a time, the hobby can be rebuilt this way, and it's up to us, the older generations to help. Again, just my 2 cents worth.

Kids are not the filtrate of their predecessors. They are completely individual personalities.

You are perfectly right insofar, that parents should expose children to as many facets of life as humanly possible, just to show them, how diverse this planet really is and what it has to offer to any halfways intellectual mind.

But the kids make their own choices and decisions and shouldn't be too much influenced in this process.

The only 'kid' (he is now 22) in my family - except me, of course - who is into something that can be called modelling, is my nephew. He does Warhammer figures. His ability to detail those is mindboggling. So much so, that my father has commissioned him to detail some HO Scale engineers and stokers for his locomotives - with equally mindboggling results. Believe it or not, the engineer of his HO scale Reichsbahn Baureihe 01 now has a moustache!

Edited April 29, 2012 by Junkman