Ace-Garageguy Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) There's been some interest on this forum about the current state of development of 3D printing technology and what it means for the future of the hobby. Here's a little news about a recent partnering in the industry. Look at the prices for a desktop machine now, at the bottom of the article...$2200. A lot of money from some perspectives indeed, but absolute infinite capability (and the prices should continue to drop). A member of ACME here in Atl. has created digital files for 1/24 scale bodies in google Sketchup, and had them printed by a jobber shop. Finished price, including shipping to him, is about $30 for a one-of-a-kind model (that can easily be used as a master to copy in resin), or about the same price as a mid-level resin body. When the URL comes up, wait for the page to load in about 10 seconds..... http://www.rapidread...s-objet-merger/ Edited October 12, 2012 by Ace-Garageguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffs396 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Bill, we can have one-offs done by Rapid Prototype printing for only $30 as long as we have the files? I'm going hunting for some files at decent prices!!! Thanks for the link & heads-up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groo12 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Try here as well. Www.makerbot.com The other cool resource is make magazine. Www.makezine.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMP440 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 The $2200 price for the desk top unit is pretty afordable. This will revolutionize the resin casting industry. No need for making a mold when you got the file in 3D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 And I've seen first-hand the quality of the higher-resolution goo on small parts....a quick-change gearbox housing extension....and it's only slightly grainy. A single wet coat of high-build primer should get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Joseph Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Makerbot has really stepped it up with this new machine! The DLP resin printers have some real competition now. The build envelope is fantastic for the new Replicator 2, and I can see it easily handling a scale car body for much cheaper than has previously been possible. For very fine details, though, it's still not quite there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxer Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 These are getting developed fast .. soon 3D printers for the masses. Now I'm going to have to look into what I have to do to the hundreds of 3D auto files I've collected over the years so they can be used on a 3D printer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draggon Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Imagine if Jeff Allison's work became models! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 For very fine details, though, it's still not quite there. And for most who are used to building 1/24 and 1/25 scale, that is the main hangup IMHO. Until desktop 3D printing resolution becomes so fine that any texture is imperceptible to the human eye, I don't think I'd be interested in owning one. What size are these 3D files? Just curious if that will be another obstacle for the average modeler looking to get into a 3D setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) And I've seen first-hand the quality of the higher-resolution goo on small parts....a gearbox housing extension....and it's only slightly grainy. A single wet coat of high-build primer should get it. For very fine details, though, it's still not quite there. I wouldn't have bothered starting this thread unless I'd actually held-in-my-hand some VERY impressive output. I'll describe one part I've actually examined closely in person. It's a heavily-finned transaxle rear-cover / bearing-carrier for a Shelby King Cobra. The fins and bolt-head detail need magnification to properly appreciate them. The detail is finer than what could be produced using conventional subtractive-machining of a master for resin tooling or a reverse-image injection-mold. The part of the gearbox sticking out under the pipes is what I'm referring to. I don't have photos of the model part, but I'll ask the creator if he's willing to let me post some. Edited October 14, 2012 by Ace-Garageguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 What size are these 3D files? Just curious if that will be another obstacle for the average modeler looking to get into a 3D setup. I'll post links to some of the tutorial sites relating to this tech. I rather doubt the "average modeler" will embrace this stuff until it's almost free and totally automatic, as average modelers tend to be, um.....average, and this is kinda leading-edge and kinda hard (not hard as in 'difficult', but there is a rather steep learning curve). File size isn't an issue with fairly recent desktops (and multi-gig off-machine storage) and requisite processing power is easily within the capabilities of current generation desktop consumer computers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxer Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) Just to add a small bit to Bill's excellent and very interesting comments, I've been messing with 3D files since 1992 when 3D Studio came out. I became interested in acquiring 3D files of cars soon after. I have tried modeling some cars but it IS a steep learning curve and I never pursued it very far. I expect when 3D printing becomes common in price and quality you will still be buying "bodies" from 3D vendors as you now do resin bodies. The variety will be astounding compared to resin bodies now on the market. File sizes is a non-issue. As I said, I had 3D files on my DOS computer. For the printers they would a bit different as to type to include instructions the printer can understand and not much larger in size. I can't wait for this to come to be as I need a body of a 1972 Volvo 140 I had! Edited October 14, 2012 by Foxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) Here's a tutorial on building a 3D digital model when you have accurate 4-view (top, side, both ends), 2D drawings to work from. If you're careful and obsessive, you can generate these drawings yourself from a 1:1 vehicle you have access to. Then follow the tutorial to convert that data to a 3D digital model. This is the early part of the process the model-manufacturing companies go through to bring out a new model. The availability of 3D printing (in case you're not exactly seeing where this is going) allows the whole tooling-process to be sidestepped. http://www.3dtotal.c...fiat500_m04.php Edited October 14, 2012 by Ace-Garageguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Brian Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) The models will most likely have to be designed for printing since most 3d models don't need to represent material thickness. Models made now are a framework of wires holding micron thick faces that represent a structure. If an attempt was made to print one the parts would be paper thin and far too fragile to work with. Bridging that gap will take reworking most models to represent not only the appreance of the original but also to have enough rigidity to be able to work with it. Here are some basics about 3d models to aid in this discussion somewhat. In the pics below the the views on the upper left, lower left, and lower right all show the wireframe model from a differnt angle. The upper right window shows the model with the faces in place and painted with the texture that will give them their color. Faces make up the surface of the model and the wireframe gives them their shape. Faces do not have any thickness or mass to them. Think about building a cube from the thinnest possible styrene strips and wrapping it in clear plastic wrap, the cube will have a shape but it will be hollow and not have enough density to work with. Another aspect of faces in that they are only visible from one side, if you were to paint the outside of your cube you can clearly see the faces from the outside but if you were inside the cube and the faces behaved like 3d model faces and not plastic wrap the colored faces would be invisible. See how they behave in the pic below showing the inside of the model above. To give the appearance of mass the guys on the site I was modeling trucks for developed what we called "fiberglassing", where we would take the outside model and turn it inside out to create an inside surface and then add it back into the outside model to make a body shell. The pic below illustrates this technique, it now looks like the body has mass or density. It appears to exist in 3d since it has an inside and outside but it would still not be printable because it still doesn't have any thickness, it's basically the front and back of the same sheet of paper. More advanced 3d models and most of what you find available on the web have their interiors built in such a away as to be truly 3d but they still would have the same material thickness issues as the pics above. The models will have to be made with an inside and outside surface and in a way that tells the printer that the area between those surfaces needs to be solid. Newer 3d programs are beginning to have this ability, a lot of this really depends on how the software is programed. Here is an model I made for the inside of a truck cab to give it more depth, some areas are just reversed faces to represent sheet metal and others I built out deeper to give the appearance of interior panels inside the cab. Edited October 14, 2012 by Fat Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 The question I'm wondering is, will this help the industry or kill it out right? At first it will be like any other cottage industry/aftermarket type thing. It will help you change your '67 Whateveryacallit into your dads old '68. But as 3d files become heavily traded and available and the printer drops in price, I can see this hurting the manufacturers. If I can print my own parts entirely then the only thing missing is a way to chrome plate and make clear parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Brian Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 This may put the kit manufacturers completely out of business but it won't matter because we can do everything they do at home. Instead of buying a kit we will buy a file like from iTunes and print out a copy. If it really catches on I can imagine instead of mailing parts to Chrometech you email them your pieces and they print them, plate them , and mail them back to you. As for clear parts it would be very easy to make and print a model buck of the windows that could be used to vac or heat form them. It will be different but better in so many ways, imagine going to model shows and not seeing the same kits over and over again. You will be able to build whatever you want with as much or as little of the work done in the computer as you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 The question I'm wondering is, will this help the industry or kill it out right? At first it will be like any other cottage industry/aftermarket type thing. It will help you change your '67 Whateveryacallit into your dads old '68. But as 3d files become heavily traded and available and the printer drops in price, I can see this hurting the manufacturers. If I can print my own parts entirely then the only thing missing is a way to chrome plate and make clear parts. Excellent point. So, a model company wishing to stay in business and profit from the emerging technology, and having a little vision instead of running scared, might decide to modify their business-model to include providing the files that the printers will have to run on, and adding a don't-copy provision similar to other software. Build a cloud-or single-server-based file library, and charge a licensing fee each time a particular file is accessed for "print". Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The70judgeman Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 This may seem like a really stupid question, but is this the same technology that Jay Leno has and uses in his shop to reproduce small parts in plastic to make a master mold from? That show was a "My Classic Car" with Dennis Gage episode...I think. Jay made a chain from a solid piece of plastic with all the individual links interlinked when it was completed. Like I said...stupid question, but I just want to make sure I'm following the thread correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 This may seem like a really stupid question, but is this the same technology that Jay Leno has and uses in his shop to reproduce small parts in plastic to make a master mold from? That show was a "My Classic Car" with Dennis Gage episode...I think. Jay made a chain from a solid piece of plastic with all the individual links interlinked when it was completed. Like I said...stupid question, but I just want to make sure I'm following the thread correctly. Not a stupid question at all if that's the only exposure you've had to this tech. And the short answer is "yes", it's pretty much the same thing. But it's not made from a single piece of plastic. There are various machines and procedures that work in several materials from sintered-metal to UV-activated liquid plastic resin. Research "rapid prototyping". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadillacPat Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 This is not going to happen tomorrow. Maybe in 20 years there might be a handfull of people in the world printing obscure home designs of scale bodies, But, Factories will always have the edge on perfection and quality. Think of the tens of millions of Model Kits in home closets and factory warehouses coupled with the loss of the baby boomers. Kits will be for sale but there will be less people who want them, leaving even less of those who would take the initiative or have the interest to "create" their own bodies and parts. It's a nice utopian thought but I dont see it happening. But, As cities double in size and more and more people spend the majority of their lives indoors. there will still be Model Builders in the future, 20-50 years from now, but the interest in Model Cars that the baby boomers created, nourished, and passed on to two successive generations will just not be around. The abundance of kits still on hand will serve to fill the needs of those wanting to build Model Cars. CadillacPat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draggon Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Chroming is not a problem. Perhaps Chrome Tech Bob or Little Motor Kar Company will get a boost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The70judgeman Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Not a stupid question at all if that's the only exposure you've had to this tech. And the short answer is "yes", it's pretty much the same thing. But it's not made from a single piece of plastic. There are various machines and procedures that work in several materials from sintered-metal to UV-activated liquid plastic resin. Research "rapid prototyping". Oh yeah...think I've heard of the UV-activated too. Thanks for clearing it up. Sounds like some interesting stuff. Didn't they do something like that on American Chopper too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 This is not going to happen tomorrow. Maybe in 20 years there might be a handfull of people in the world printing obscure home designs of scale bodies, CadillacPat Ummmmm........guess you missed the part where I said a member of my club is doing outstanding work NOW, and I'm on the bandwagon and in the learning curve. Surely we're not the only two on the planet. This tech is HERE, it's REAL and it's as accurate as the man doing the computer-modeling wants it to be. You can already BUY 3D printed models from a number of suppliers and you can have a one-of-a-kind model body-shell printed (from your own files) and shipped for about $30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadillacPat Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Ummmmm........guess you missed the part where I said a member of my club is doing outstanding work NOW, and I'm on the bandwagon and in the learning curve. No AG, I didn't miss any parts, But, When you say you and your friend are OUTSTANDING, is that up to par for what people would want to purchase?? That's subjective isn't it?? Sure the tech is here but it will cost you a Million Bucks if you really want to make Models. These $2200 Printers are encouraging but they won"t work magic. Let's see some Macro pictures of the bodies that people are 3D printing? Nice closeup shots for detail and finish. Considering the number of Model Kits out there and the changing state of Modeling, I don't see this 3D thing, with it's current ability, making much of a showing. CadillacPat Edited October 15, 2012 by CadillacPat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 From what I have seen (a few 3D bodys and parts) and have read, that parts or bodys come out really rough, almost like a sand finish, so while 3D printing is coming, I dont think its 100% ready for models, but I could be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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