Harry P. Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 ...remember, it's only a hobby, and we, rise to our own levels of satisfaction and willingness to astound ourselves. But that's the problem. To a lot of guys it's more than "just a hobby"... they enter contests and take things really seriously-and some of them get seriously upset if they don't win.
Dr. Cranky Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 The minute you take it all too seriously it starts to fall apart. Also, a good sense of humor helps.
gtx6970 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 I to go to contests from time to time , but ONLY as a spectator . I could care less if a judge likes they way I built it or not. I learned a long time ago build for yourself and yourself only. You will sleep better trust me
Tom Geiger Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Bottom line is, most contests are sponsored by the bigger aftermarket companies and surreptitios points are always awarded to models using the sponsors products. That's just politics. It's all a corporate conspiracy. Those millionares in the aftermarket business have it all wrapped up to screw the little guy! Actually as someone involved in one of the largest shows in the country... NNL East, as 99% of the model shows we enjoy, is run by a non profit club. We probably have the most aftermarket companies in attendance and I can say that nobody in that arena is making mega bucks at it. Not enough to buy a show! and the nickel commercial... I love NNL style events because there is no judging. People don't give a darn what you added to it if it doesn't have curb appeal. I long ago lost interest in contests and competing. I still go to the contest events for the social aspect, to see the models and shop the dealers. I may put a model down on the table to participate but I often don't even listen to the contest results!
Terry Sumner Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Maybe the guys who rail against aftermarket and PE parts just aren't skilled enough to use them???
ZTony8 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 I've been one of the judges at the Detroit Autorama model contest for the past few years so I'm able to speak from experience as to what criteria are used in judging.We look for build quality first and then the amount and type of modifications.If the modifications aren't done well then that model doesn't fare as well as a model with fewer (or no) modifications but better assembly quality.The things we look for in build quality are: 1) How well the model is painted.Does the gloss paint shine?Has the model been color sanded and/or polished?Is there rub through or runs or sags or thin spots?Fingerprints?Are underhood and interior details highlighted by paint? 2)How cleanly the parts are attached.Are there visible glue spots or marks in the paint from glue seepage?Are parts firmly attached or just barely hanging on? 3) Are parts attached where they should be attached?Are they lined up properly(i.e no sagging bumpers or exhaust pipes or wheels wth excess camber)?Are there major parts missing?( I don't know how many times I've seen nice appearing models downgraded by missing driveshafts-and no, these weren't entries in a Curbside class) 4)How well any modifications are done.This ranges from heavy ones like sectioning or top chopping to easier ones like added photoetched pieces or wiring or plumbing.Are the body mods done cleanly?Is the wiring/plumbing done neatly?Is it routed to the proper location?Are the photoetched pieces installed neatly and in the correct location? Futurabat-I've never seen or heard of a contest where "surreptitious" points were given for a particular company's products.Sometimes an aftermarket company will sponsor an award for best use of it's product(s) but there's nothing sinister in that. Chuck- a model can't have "too many bits added on" unless those bits were added in duplication or put in the wrong place.What matters is if they were added correctly and cleanly.It all comes down to build quality.More doesn't always mean better.
southpier Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) But that's the problem. To a lot of guys it's more than "just a hobby"... they enter contests and take things really seriously-and some of them get seriously upset if they don't win. anyone who makes the jump from hobbyist to mechant will agree. ask anyone who derives a living from what consumers consider a hobby. how many hobby shop owners, parts manufacturers, or magazine producers actually still have time to build the things which brought them to where they are now? Edited December 31, 2012 by southpier
Art Anderson Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Futurabat, on 30 Dec 2012 - 19:35, said: Bottom line is, most contests are sponsored by the bigger aftermarket companies and surreptitios points are always awarded to models using the sponsors products. That's just politics.
Guest Johnny Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Maybe the guys who rail against aftermarket and PE parts just aren't skilled enough to use them??? You just had to go there, didn't you terry! I don't use much aftermarket stuff because I can't really afford it. But I would if I could to a certain extent.
2002p51 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Maybe the guys who rail against aftermarket and PE parts just aren't skilled enough to use them??? This is kind of a slap in the face to some of us. I've used lots of photo etched parts and other aftermarket products over the years. I no longer use much of that stuff any more because I'm over it, it's a PITA, and an expense I don't need. About the only aftermarket stuff I use anymore is ignition wire and braided fuel lines. But, for example, I don't use any of those turned metal A/N fittings 'cause, well, see above. As far their use in helping you win contests; I was a judge once and I examined a car that was loaded down with photo etched stuff and aftermarket details and it really looked pretty good. Until you noticed that not all four wheels touched the ground. I passed it over for any award and the builder was irate! One other time I won the "Best Engine" award in a contest with a factory stock engine that had no other aftermarket details but plug wires and heater hose. A couple of guys with loaded down race motors weren't too happy about that, but in spite of all their effort, mine just looked more real.
CadillacPat Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Is there really a clear division among Model Builders against anyone who can afford to embellish their projects with fine detailed parts????? Is this becoming a trend, hating people who are successful. There may be a segment of Stage Mom Modelers who MUST see their baby win. But, Most people I know, even if they enter works of their own, attend Model Shows to see what is on the table. Drama, drama, drama, who needs it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh yeah, and about those mentioned Aftermarket Supply Companies who are determining contest winners??? That's baloney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CadillacPat
Hollywood Jim Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Is there really a clear division among Model Builders against anyone who can afford to embellish their projects with fine detailed parts????? Is this becoming a trend, hating people who are successful. There may be a segment of Stage Mom Modelers who MUST see their baby win. But, Most people I know, even if they enter works of their own, attend Model Shows to see what is on the table. Drama, drama, drama, who needs it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh yeah, and about those mentioned Aftermarket Supply Companies who are determining contest winners??? That's baloney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CadillacPat Right on !
JustBill Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 I think of winning a contest as more of a compliment then a goal. I build more for realism as my goal. If it happens to place then that's just a great compliment for me. Same with making it into a magazine. I don't believe realism is achieved with the amount of aftermarket/pe parts that are used but rather with good solid "basic" skills. Which I believe are a must. They're just as important as adding paint and glue to your kit. Don't get me wrong, I love to use aftermarket and pe parts to do what is mentioned above, enhance the kit and to achieve realism. Same with scratch building. I don't see much use in taking the time to "add" things if the basics are missed.
scalenut Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 I respect the realistic type builds , I think they deserve a point for however being modified yet still remain realistic. these cars that are slammed with huge wheels that could not even clear the fenders to steer or change a tire and the front bay completely chopped out where nothing could possibly hold the remaining sheet metal from crumpling in a pile if you leaned on it...or where the suspension is non existant so the builder never showcases the chassis .. I consider that "art building" but not deserving of points above a vehicle that the builder addressed these necessary issues... these builds should be judged differently.. perhaps in a "curbside plus" category I have nothing against p.e.details and all that but I agree clean is everything
Guest Johnny Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 Is there really a clear division among Model Builders against anyone who can afford to embellish their projects with fine detailed parts????? Is this becoming a trend, hating people who are successful. CadillacPat Pretty good rant but I do not see that in any of the posts. Seen some models that were loaded and looked great and have seen some loaded that just look cluttered and gaudy. Seen base build models that were way more impressive than one with lots of aftermarket. Some just seem to look even more unrealistic when you balance the look of the PE and the plastic. Has nothing to do with whether or not someone is more "successful" and can afford the aftermarket parts, but rather what they do with the parts. Can't figure where that one came from at all.
Darren B Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 Lets just build and be happy, no matter what thats what it is all about anyway.
CadillacPat Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 Pretty good rant but I do not see that in any of the posts. Seen some models that were loaded and looked great and have seen some loaded that just look cluttered and gaudy. Seen base build models that were way more impressive than one with lots of aftermarket. Some just seem to look even more unrealistic when you balance the look of the PE and the plastic. Has nothing to do with whether or not someone is more "successful" and can afford the aftermarket parts, but rather what they do with the parts. Can't figure where that one came from at all. Well Johnny you just keep figuring on it, I'll give you some more time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read all the posts real slow and take your time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CadillacPat
Terry Sumner Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 "This is kind of a slap in the face to some of us. I've used lots of photo etched parts and other aftermarket products over the years. I no longer use much of that stuff any more because I'm over it, it's a PITA, and an expense I don't need." I said that in jest Drew...that's why I had the "winking" emoticon there at the end.
martinfan5 Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 I dont use very much P/E stuff just mainly because the cost factor
Abell82 Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 Personally, I try to just finish a model . If I choose to add a detail thats slightly outta scale, so what? Atleast I (and other builders, for that matter!) tried. Offer a suggestion and move on. I (personally) am not above critisizm, as long as it's helpful and comes with a suggestion on how to improve, said detail. Honestly, sometimes people are WAY too over critical. Maybe the Ford's fender mounted starter solenoid is out of scale, ever tried to make one in 1/25th scale? So what if it's actually closer to 1/22nd? It's not the end of the world. And sometimes a detail is just too fine to add, but my OCD compels me to try anyway!. (Besides, maybe it's scale is perfect, and it's the model that's underscale. It happens!)
skysoldier46 Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 ask any NASCAR model builder if they can do without aftermarket or photo etch stuff. they can't and won't. I use all Evergreen when I build from scratch and also brass rod. I never use photo etch things. I try to make what I need. I just enjoy the idea of creating something with my own hands. And skill first with basic build techniques always makes a better model IMO.
XJ6 Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 Because the builders you are talking about believe that the ohhh shiny if you will of adding P/E sets and aftermarket goodies will make up for not covering the basic's of modeling building. It is what it is, just build your builds and dont worry about what other builders do , or dont do on their builds, like is to short for it . 100% Agree....that is just a Fact..... There is no difference between a Good Built Model....and a Bad Built Model...Just some are better then others....a Model Built is a Model Built....it's the Hobby...that is what it is really all about.....The Hobby...Hobbie....Just a Ha be
Joe Handley Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 anyone who makes the jump from hobbyist to mechant will agree. ask anyone who derives a living from what consumers consider a hobby. how many hobby shop owners, parts manufacturers, or magazine producers actually still have time to build the things which brought them to where they are now? Time or desire, I know I've largely lost mine.
southpier Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 i think there's something to be said for that #46. but i also understand that when a person (read = me) is learning anything, there's a tendancy to buy one's way to understanding. it's the old 80 / 20 rule: we use 20%, 80% of the time. it can be vocabulary, mechanic tools, or _______ (fill in the blank). just check the micro-mark catalog. how many gadgets for $19.95 plus shippng & handling are in there that are - well, not that useful, to be kind - to someone with modeling skills above beginner level? yet, people buy them because they have money but have not yet developed skills or have experience to do the task another way. this is true with a multitude of things; the next i am most familiar is woodworking catalogs. but after doing something as a vocation for 40 years, i routinely use the same handful of tools every day instead of running out and getting the latest gee gaw or doo dad which is purported to do the job for me. unfortunately, my automotive & mechanical experience is not advanced to enable me to make blowers, heads, kidney slot wheels, or pie crust slicks. so i go out and buy them in hopes that getting something built will actually encourage me to learn more and in time grow my ability to keep up with my imagination. photo etch? i'd rather take out my own appendix with a spoon!
Nick Notarangelo Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 Dude best advice,build how you want and just enjoy it. I would stress at one point about the right color or the right detail,then the hobby for me became no fun,then I realized I didnt have to do like everyone else and it became fun again.
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