3D printing now offered from a mainstream model company...

[niteowl7710]

Those new fangled cars will never replace horses!

Why would I want a telephone? I can write a letter!

A box with moving pictures? Bah nothing will replace my radio!

Edited May 30, 2013 by niteowl7710

[Hollywood Jim]

Excellent news. Lots of possibilities !!

[shucky]

Those new fangled cars will never replace horses!

Why would I want a telephone? I can write a letter!

A box with moving pictures? Bah nothing will replace my radio!

Not sure what this means or who it's intended for, but I'm probably on the younger side of those who are members here and fairly up to date on the "tech" side of things. Let us know when those injection molded like-quality 3D parts are printed on your coffee table for pennies on the dollar okay? Lol.

[Lownslow]

Those new fangled cars will never replace horses!

Why would I want a telephone? I can write a letter!

A box with moving pictures? Bah nothing will replace my radio!

Pretty much puts it in perspective, lol.

[CJ1971]

Ummm... If I'm not mistaken, Moebius aren't the ONLY model kit company using this 3D scanning technology. I believe Aoshima is currently using it too & have actually made ( prototype ) their latest kit, the McLaren F1 Long-Tail GT, with 3D scanning tech'....

Cheers

[Drake69]

I don't care... I WANT MY '97~'01 JEEP CHEROKEE!!!!

[shucky]

Model companies (especially of the Asian variety) are most certainly using 3D printing technology for their prototypes. For that purpose, this technology is absolutely fantastic.

[Jim Whalen]

Hi,

Interesting developments - wonder what we'll think of the predictions or pessimistic posts in this thread in 10 years time?

[Daddyfink]

Ah forget it! I'm sticking to Balsa Wood and a Butter Knife! See you in the future!!

Edited May 30, 2013 by Daddyfink

[Brett Barrow]

Ummm... If I'm not mistaken, Moebius aren't the ONLY model kit company using this 3D scanning technology. I believe Aoshima is currently using it too & have actually made ( prototype ) their latest kit, the McLaren F1 Long-Tail GT, with 3D scanning tech'....

Cheers

They all use it in some form, or they will soon.

Revell 3D scans their handmade pattern models to begin the tool-cutting process. They'd like to totally eliminate the pattern making process within the next couple years. To see the difference just that the 3D scanning of the patterns makes, compare the old 32 Fords to the new Rat Roaster, the RR used most of the same pattern parts, but the old ones were transfered to tooling by pantograph, the RR was transfered to tooling by 3D scanning.

Tamiya still begins each model with a simple hand-carved wooden buck to get proper shape and proportioning, but 3D scans that to begin the detailing phase of their design.

Round 2's Polar Lights 66 Batmobile was done with the same 3D-scanned digital files that were used to create the Hot Wheels 1/18 die-cast (pretty sure the same designer did both, or Mattel allowed the use of the files; either way, it was on the up-and-up).

If they aren't using both 3D scanning (either of 1:1's or patterns or mockups) and 3D printing (rapid-prototyping/stereo lithography, whatever you want to call it) they will be soon.

I started the thread to point out that an injection-plastic model company was now offering 3D printed parts to its customers.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Brett Barrow

[High octane]

3-D printing? Slow down, I still use a rotary dial telephone. LOL!

[Scale-Master]

You're completely misunderstanding the concept. Kits will not be "mass produced." The kit companies will sell the software to the buyer, who then outputs the kit on his own home 3-D printer. No more producing, packaging, storing and shipping thousands of kits. No more large factories and huge injection-molding machines. Think of the cost savings involved when a traditional kit manufacturer goes digital only.

So if that does happen, what do you think these old-fangled styrene kits might be worth as vintage reminders of where the hobby came from? Or maybe like fine wines they will skyrocket in value?

[Brett Barrow]

Hi,

Interesting developments - wonder what we'll think of the predictions or pessimistic posts in this thread in 10 years time?

I remember when I was a kid acrylic paints were supposed to be the death of enamels, but enamel paints are still far and away the sales leaders in model paints. (Don't know why, I'm an acrylic and lacquer guy myself)

Desktop printing hasn't killed paper modeling (talk about some hard-core dedicated modelers, paper modelers are insane!!! - in the good way...). You can print your own paper models, but print quality isn't as good as the commercial products (many of which now include laser-cut and/or photo-etched parts) not to mention you'll probably kill a set of ink or toner cartridges that cost more than buying the model outright. Factor in the cost of paper and ink and it's just not worth it. I think this will be the case with desktop 3D-printing for many, many years. We'll still be buying injection-plastic consumer goods probably forever and as long as those injection molding facilities are up and running, they'll be cranking out plastic model kits for us to buy, too. Will companies come along that offer esoteric subjects that will be printed at home? I'm sure of it. In fact they already exist; just browse Shapeways.com and you'll find tons.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Brett Barrow

[sjordan2]

Harry P., on 29 May 2013 - 9:06 PM, said:

You're completely misunderstanding the concept. Kits will not be "mass produced." The kit companies will sell the software to the buyer, who then outputs the kit on his own home 3-D printer. No more producing, packaging, storing and shipping thousands of kits. No more large factories and huge injection-molding machines. Think of the cost savings involved when a traditional kit manufacturer goes digital only.

That's what I would be hoping for. I wonder, however, about the problems of piracy, unauthorized copying of digital files. And if one person can print it out for himself, and replace parts, he can print it out for others, lessening the amount of sales for the manufacturer. Some sort of safeguards would have to be in place to do it that way.

Of course, that sort of pirating is already being done by people with the resources to have 3D scanners and printers.

The spread of the technology is inevitable, though, and there's no telling how fast it will become more evolved and affordable. One of the most exciting current uses is 3D printing of human tissue for replacement body parts.

Edited May 30, 2013 by sjordan2

[Brett Barrow]

You're completely misunderstanding the concept. Kits will not be "mass produced." The kit companies will sell the software to the buyer, who then outputs the kit on his own home 3-D printer. No more producing, packaging, storing and shipping thousands of kits. No more large factories and huge injection-molding machines. Think of the cost savings involved when a traditional kit manufacturer goes digital only.

Cost savings only for the manufacturer. Passing all the costs on to the consumer. You're asking a lot from them. Got to remember these are folks that will drive an hour both ways to a hobby shop to grab a bottle of gray paint just to avoid having to mix black and white that they already have. Having to buy a model then print it out at their own expense? They'll never go for it.

[Deathgoblin]

3D scanning would solve a lot of issues with "out of proportion" kits. It would be difficult for it to be out of proportion if it's a direct scan of the real car. Personally, I'm kid of excited about the scanning and printing sides of this technology.

[Casey]

You're completely misunderstanding the concept. Kits will not be "mass produced." The kit companies will sell the software to the buyer, who then outputs the kit on his own home 3-D printer. No more producing, packaging, storing and shipping thousands of kits. No more large factories and huge injection-molding machines. Think of the cost savings involved when a traditional kit manufacturer goes digital only.

I understand the point, Harry. I just don't think it's as close as you do, don't think it will be as affordable as quickly as you do, and see other problems and challenges this technology will bring into play, challenges injection molded kits never had to face.

If people want to build slammers with windows painted black from the inside, or models with no chrome plating, no decals, and no rubber/vinyl tires, this technology will be perfect. I have my doubts the average consumer is going to pay $29.99 for a model kit, print it out at home, then spend the time to figure how s/he is going to fabricate clear "glass", search and pay separately for decals, seek out a chrome plating business and also pay for that separately, then wait for it all to arrive so s/h can build the model. They'll probably have spent close to $60 for all the parts needed to complete the model, and they're just starting to build it. Suddenly that injection molded model they can pick up off the shelf at their LHS or Michael's for $29.99 which already contains all the parts needed to build the mode is looking awfully good.

Sure most of us are willing to pay $10 for an aftermarket decal sheet of spend another $30 on detailing parts, styrene/brass/aluminum tube/rod/sheet to make our own additional details, maybe even get the hang of Alclad and accept it as being an acceptable substitute for vacuum chrome plating. Fine for those of us who are on the fringe, but for the average consumer, who makes up the bulk of model kit sales, I've got to be honest and say I don't see that happening.

I have no doubt some of these challenges will be met in another decade or so, and maybe some won't. People continue to use VCRs, CDs and other electronic products as example of how 3D printing will make IM technology obsolete, but IM is wide-ranging, adaptable, and used in a product we put our hands on every day of our lives. I agree that digital music is much more convenient and easy that buying and using a 5" CD, but you still need the player to use the music file, and the music file comes complete, ready to use, with no additional work required by the consumer. Models have and always will be made by hand and involve a totally different set emotions, skills, and consumer habits. People are willing to invest days, weeks, year in a model, then keep it to display, while most consumer products in the same price range (say $30-$60) are viewed as disposable.

Charlie mentioned Objet's ability to print clear parts in another forum topic, so I have no doubt that obstacle will be overcome without too much trouble. Here's another example of a company printing transparent objects: http://www.stratasys.com/materials/polyjet/transparent

It's still not clear to me if the same printers can print both solid and opaque mediums, though.

There's also the issue of people not liking hard plastic tires, for whatever reason. To most they seem to be viewed as toy like and not fit for use on accurate models, and while I don't fall into that category, I do have to acknowledge those feelings and that attitude as another challenge 3D models will need to overcome.

[sjordan2]

"There's also the issue of people not liking hard plastic tires, for whatever reason. To most they seem to be viewed as toy like and not fit for use on accurate models, and while I don't fall into that category, I do have to acknowledge those feelings and that attitude as another challenge 3D models will need to overcome."

I don't think it will be too much of a stretch to be able to print in a variety of materials, such as rubber. As I mentioned in my last post, human tissue is already being experimented with for replacement body parts, and are being used for testing the effects of new drugs on specific body organs. This scientist says it's only about 10 years away to be able to print usable issue for a variety of organs:

http://www.dezeen.com/2013/05/02/michael-renard-print-shift-interview-health/

Edited May 30, 2013 by sjordan2

[Casey]

I don't think it will be too much of a stretch to be able to print in a variety of materials, such as rubber. As I mentioned in my last post, human tissue is already being used for replacement body parts.

Yeah, I could see that happening, too, but again, will the same printer be able to output all these different media?

[Brett Barrow]

3D scanning would solve a lot of issues with "out of proportion" kits. It would be difficult for it to be out of proportion if it's a direct scan of the real car. Personally, I'm kid of excited about the scanning and printing sides of this technology.

Direct scans of 1:1's are still a lot of work. I know that on the Kirkham Cobra Daytonas that were 3D scanned to make 1:1 replicas, that process took 17 hours of actual scanning, then another 80 hours of computer work just to get the point cloud down to a manageable level that could be used to make cross-sections for further manipulation, and that was just for the body panels...

[thatz4u]

scan some old Johan kits and bang, everything old is new again!!!

[Art Anderson]

Cost savings only for the manufacturer. Passing all the costs on to the consumer. You're asking a lot from them. Got to remember these are folks that will drive an hour both ways to a hobby shop to grab a bottle of gray paint just to avoid having to mix black and white that they already have. Having to buy a model then print it out at their own expense? They'll never go for it.

Brett,

Agreed.

And, another thing: Present day computer technology relies on information in, and then spits information out. Computers as we know them really do not think for themselves, at least not yet, and certainly not to the extent that a truly realistic small scale model would require.

An excellent video, "Design and Development Of a Plastic Model", put out by Tamiya nearly 30 years ago said it very, VERY well: "It is possible to make a scale model numerically correct, but it may not 'look' right". Yes, I know that dimensions should, and can be made, exactly numerically correct, but it's the subtle curves and contours that may very well NOT look correct to the modeler's eye IF they are exactly numerically perfect--due to the characteristics of human vision.

Now, with a model kit of type of car that almost no modeler has seen up close and in person, nor ever will see in it's 1:1 incarnation (say that forthcoming 2016 Pungs-Finch GT Prototype -- a fictional car of course) I can see this sort of technology coming into play--but an model of an iconic mass-produced automobile (you can fill in the blank here) I have to wonder, given that thousands of modelers likely will have seen the actual car, each with his/her own opinion (and perception) of just exactly how it SHOULD look, say in 1/25 scale.

I am well aware that 3D printing has seen some fantastic uses--consider that just within the last year, a little boy was implanted with a 3D printed "windpipe" to supplement his real one which kept collapsing as he breathed, and that kid is now thriving--stuff like that.

Where do I see 3D printing of finished model parts? For the forseeable future, I see this technology entering our hobby in aftermarket parts and accessories, perhaps even limited run kits--but in mass production? For that to be viable, successful, the process would have to be speeded up by quantum factors--given the relatively slow speed of any printer compared to the 1-3 minute cycle of an injection molder, which itself can produce a complete kit in that period of time. Also consider that printers can suffer failures--be they 3D or the inkjet or laser printer at your own computer, failures that can be as small as a munged area on the page, or of course, complete and total stoppage. That kinda makes me think of the "widget machine" which when working went Ka-Chunk, Ka-Chunk, Ka-Chunk, until one day when while nobody was watching it, started going -Chunk, -Chunk, -Chunk, -Chunk. How many defective parts might be made before someone notices that? Again, a further problem that will have to be solved. But, for those added pieces that some modelers will want, but that whose potential sales don't warrant the expense of steel tooling, yeah--bring 'em on.

But, I'll not hold my breath waiting for that $25 3D printed 120-piece kit of an actual production car in scale? I don't think I would look very good in cyanotic blue.

Art

[Art Anderson]

Those new fangled cars will never replace horses!

Why would I want a telephone? I can write a letter!

A box with moving pictures? Bah nothing will replace my radio!

FWIW, there are more horses in the US today than at any time in our past history. We still write letters, albeit just not on paper. And radios? They are still everywhere.

The automobile replaced horsepower for the VAST majority of people, but horses are still around, for pleasure. Pencils are still being made the same old, same old way--a rod of graphite encased between two sticks of cedar. Stationery and pens can still be had as can postage stamps and the mailman. And, we listen to radio still--in ever evolving ways.

Art

[Ace-Garageguy]

They all use it in some form, or they will soon.

Revell 3D scans their handmade pattern models to begin the tool-cutting process.

If this is true, they're missing the point of the technology they have, and it could explain some of the appalling accuracy problems.

Step 1) Design the model in CAD, either from a digital scan of a FULL SIZE car, factory blueprints ( CAD files) or using measurements taken manually.

Step 2) Print the model parts out in whatever scale is desired. Verify the parts meet the requirements for injection molding i.e. draft angles etc. One team works on parts layout on sprues.

Step 3) Assemble the printed parts to verify fit, build-ability and proportions, stance, etc. Tune the design as necessary and re-print as necessary.

Step 4) Using the verified digital design from the above steps, go DIRECTLY to CNC steel die-cutting.

[Guest G Holding]

FWIW, there are more horses in the US today than at any time in our past history. We still write letters, albeit just not on paper. And radios? They are still everywhere.

The automobile replaced horsepower for the VAST majority of people, but horses are still around, for pleasure. Pencils are still being made the same old, same old way--a rod of graphite encased between two sticks of cedar. Stationery and pens can still be had as can postage stamps and the mailman. And, we listen to radio still--in ever evolving ways.

Art

And a sad FACT...cursive handwriting is no longer being taught in our schools, "as there is no need" So I guess we really won't need pens or pencils..........Oh and Art, my trusty Cross pencil has been in use since 1969......no cedar