Dumbest Questions Ever Asked On This Forum....

[clovis]

I built quite a few kits back in the day, about 25 years ago. I've been back to the hobby for a few months now.

I knew that people collected kits, both for the fun of collecting, but also "to build someday."

Over the years, especially since the advent of the internet and ebay, we've seen a meteoric rise in the price of some kits. Many kits still bring astronomical prices, especially for rare stuff in an original box.

Here is what I want to know:

On occasion, I see a vintage kit in the completed listings on ebay that sold for $300 or more.

What is the buyer going to do with that kit? Build it, or add it to their collection as an unbuilt kit? Will they ever build it, or is it considered a Holy Grail, never to be touched...just admired in it's original box?

What makes some kits so desirable, and fetch 'moon money' when listed as an auction?

What are the driving factors that push model kit values?

Why do prices surge and then fall drastically, with no rhyme or reason?

Six months ago, 1/32 P-51 kits were smoking hot, but are now dead; P-47 kits were at give-away prices, but now super strong.

I am also curious: I looked up a Revell Corsair airplane kit last year, like the one I built as a kid, and they were selling for $65 to $100. Were those going to be built, or collected as sealed collector items? (The market is soft for that kit now.)

(I am also into Lionel Postwar trains, so I clearly understand the desirability of untouched C-9 and un-run C-10 trains in original boxes. Not too many smart people would crack open a 60 year old factory sealed Lionel box and run it, unless they were rich, and didn't care.)

Thanks in advance!!!

Edited July 15, 2013 by clovis

[Scuderia]

Those are good questions, and may help yourself or or others from falling into a trap. From my experience I see prices set by rarity. Some kits may not even be THAT old, but the fact that there aren't many to be had can pump pricing up. It also helps (or doesn't help depending if you're buyer or seller) if that kit or subject is popular in general in culture and/or that building community.

[slusher]

I built quite a few kits back in the day, about 25 years ago. I've been back to the hobby for a few months now.

I knew that people collected kits, both for the fun of collecting, but also "to build someday."

Over the years, especially since the advent of the internet and ebay, we've seen a meteoric rise in the price of some kits. Many kits still bring astronomical prices, especially for rare stuff in an original box.

Here is what I want to know:

On occasion, I see a vintage kit in the completed listings on ebay that sold for $300 or more.

What is the buyer going to do with that kit? Build it, or add it to their collection as an unbuilt kit? Will they ever build it, or is it considered a Holy Grail, never to be touched...just admired in it's original box?

What makes some kits so desirable, and fetch 'moon money' when listed as an auction?

What are the driving factors that push model kit values?

Why do prices surge and then fall drastically, with no rhyme or reason?

l believe there are many reasons some kits are so expensive on ebay. Sometimes people get into bidding wars. There are people the collect kits and never open them. l have seen guys buy AMTanual kits and build them. Sometimes we as adults buy things we wanted as kids but our parents could not afford them. There are so many factors. its hard to know what people intentsions could be. l never get in a bidding war, if you find another aution for the same ltem later you may score a bargin

[CJ1971]

A kit, vintage or not, MIB or built, is worth whatever a person, be they collector or builder or businessman, is willing to pay, be it $5, $50, $500, $5000, $50,000 & so on... Money talks BS walks.

Just recently Juan Manual Fangio's 1954 Mercedes W196R, in which he won back to back GPs at Germany & Switzerland, sold for a World

record $29,650,000.00!, in its unrestored condition! Obviously to some billionaire it IS worth every single one of those $29-odd million dollars....

There is no point discussing questions like this, which have been asked many, many, many times before on this forum, that its become very boring.

The simple fact, as I have stated & has been stated many times before, is, it doesn't matter if its a plastic model kit or a 1954 J.M Fangio GP winner... It's worth/price is whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

[LDO]

Awww, man. I thought this was going to be a thread about listing the dumbest questions we've ever seen on this forum. Leaving disappointed.

[niteowl7710]

Kit value has two components. First is the recent spate of shows on various reality TV channels all touting how everything old is worth a small fortune no matter what it is...that deludes people into believing their plastic models are cast in platinum encrusted diamond dust. You see this with a lot of 80's/'90's AMT & Monogram annuals. They are $10-15 kits all over eBay and at shows, but there's always someone trying to sell them for $50 or more.

Second as Cliff points out is rarity. The one thing that drives the price on a lot of AMT Annuals is the fact that those kits were changed each year that the tooling was run. So that if the tooling exists at all it's "stuck" at the last year or modification that the tool received. Now we have seen recently where Round 2 has been willing to backdate some tools to stock condition - in the case of the Gremlin, or through all of it's variations in the case of the 1:16 DoH Charger/Street Charger/Petty Charger. Obviously a bunch of people with older kits got "burned" with those back-dates were done, but it's not likely we'll ever see Round 2 backdate the tooling to say a '61 Ford F-100, if that annual tooling even exists at this point.

The other side of rarity is what you see with JoHan and Aurora. Where the tooling (or the majority of it) has ceased to exist either through maleficence of employees in the first case, or a train crash in the latter. Those kits will never be run again because the tooling had been melted down into a refrigerator three decades ago.

Lastly for newer kits it's the "OOP - One Run" syndrome. Basically the kit is out of production, and was only ever run once. You can see that in the prices of things like the '58 & '59 Corvettes that Revell/Monogram did in the mid to late 90's. Both of those kits fetch a hefty mark-up over the $12 they cost new because for whatever reason Revell hasn't ever run them a second time. The prices on the '65 Impala Convertible was in the $40-50 range right before it was reissued (mercifully, as I refused to pay that kind of price for that kit) recently. That can also be what you see in the spike of prices on certain kits at certain times. When the news comes out that a kit that was either once several several years ago or last done a long time ago - The AMT Ford Racing "Wedge" Hauler is a good example it's been 30+ years since that was run last - you see everyone who bought the kit as an actual investment scramble to try to unload them at the "rare" price before the reissue hits the market and guts the price down to the MSRP of the reissue - or perhaps even lower since who knows what kind of shape that decades old kit and decals are in, when you can have a minty fresh one. The "OOP - One Run" hits Asian kits a good deal as well, they do business differently there, and their runs aren't 10s of thousands at once. They may run off a few thousand of a specific variation, and then that variation may never be reissued again - or at least not for a decade or more.

One thing you have to also take into consideration is that just because a eBay auction is completed, doesn't mean it actually involved a sale. There are two different categories when you search "the past" one is Sold, the other is Completed, they're not the same thing.

I think it's somewhat of a fools errand to collect models as an investment. Now perhaps for some of us it's an investment just because we wind up with stashes well beyond our years of existence to be able to build them all, but to do it solely for financial reasons seems dubious. It's not gold, it's not a stock or bond, and it takes up a lot of space and is going to stick your kids/spouse with a mound of boxes that is more than likely going to be bought for pennies on the dollar and then sold on at a premium to the next collector. I know a few people who have purchased a "rare" collectible kit just to open it in front of the vendor. Not sure the morality involved in trying to kill a vendor via cardiac arrest.

It's perhaps not pleasant to think of it this way, but the Baby Boomers all will go the way of their parents and grandparents and at some point in say 20-25 years there's going to be a glut of old "rare" and "hard to find" kits all come on the market at once with not nearly as large a group of people willing to purchase them. What will the value of these multi-hundred dollar kits be then?

Edited July 15, 2013 by niteowl7710

[zenrat]

There are no stupid questions.

Just stupid people.

I think you can be pretty sure that is a kits going for $300 it's going to a collector.

Or to someone who'll open it, remove the contents to build or cast, refill the box with old sprues and broken parts to the correct weight, re-seal it and then sell it again. To a collector.

Most i've paid for a pre loved kit is $60 (+shipping from Canadia to Aus) for the MPC '78 Dodge van. The one that came with the optional dual engine drag set-up & the Crazy Van decals.

I bought it to build and I will.

Of course last month I found one here at a swap & sell for $25. I'll build that one as well.

If buying at swap & sells I always open second hand kits in front of the vendor before paying. How else can I check the condition of the kit?

If they won't let me then I don't want it. There'll always be another one along later.

[Scuderia]

Fred brings up a good point that got me out of the 'chasing' phase quick also. I was mostly an online buyer but once i went to my first model car show and swap meet I was floored at the value i could get in person. I don't know why that is, but it certainly rings true. For that reason I don't have 'grails' anymore. That and my personality I'm more into that chase than the capture, which can be bad in life.

I finally found my 93 Cobra after many sleepless nights scouring the internet to find one under $30 over a year ago. (before reissue plans) It sat in the corner for months before I actually built it.

[Dominik]

in my opinion, i build all kits i buy. it doesn't matter, how old or rare they are. I am no collector - i am a builder.

If i look backwards and see, how much mony some people pay for kits i have built, i will go nuts.

there are about ten kits, i will never build. but thats more emotional thing. Most i have two of them: one to build, one to collect.

My "never-will-build-kits" for example are a NIB "Force 440", "Diamond in the rough"-Combo, different factorysealed issues of the Turbinecar (brown-/blue-/white boxed and Snap) or a Fujimi Honda Prelude.

for my own, i build them because thats what they are made for. I like the smell if you open the old box

If i couldn't find a rare kit, i buy it as a gluebomb and restore it - and that makes me proud, if i get the goal that i want.

[gwolf]

I think it's definitely bidding wars but also some people see a kit they had as a kid and momentarily go insane wanting it and post very high bids.

I love the Jo-Han USA Oldies kits and seeing them on eBay gets my heart poundin' but will not pay outrageous amounts for them on eBay because I know they're out there for sale much cheaper within the hobby.

Sometimes though, there's just no logic to what goes on in an eBay auction.

Glad to see the forum back up.

[Danno]

Title doesn't reflect topic. Fail.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Danno

[mikemodeler]

Niteowl pretty much nailed it. I have yet to buy a kit for the sole purpose of collecting, although my build rate suggests otherwise.

A good example was the Revell Stepps Wrecker kit. I bought it years ago for about $80, one of my first online purchases. I have always intended to build it but have not made the time. Starting seeing them on eBay for $200+ and thought maybe I should sell it, after all I have had it 10 years and it still isn't built. I could use the money for a spray booth or more models and was getting ready to list it when Revell announced they were re-issuing it, for $89!!!!

Needless to say it will be built one day, hopefully soon!

[DrKerry]

I'd build, cut up, chop what ever was thrown my way. I had a vintage kit years ago (forget what it was). I was going to chop the top and make a kustom out of it. He had me at a $125.00 bid to buy it just so I wouldn't cut it. Needless to say I watched him cry when I drew the saw accross the posts. To me plastic is plastic!!!!!!!!!

I know that may upset some on the forum, but I'm sorry, just how I see it..

[Harry P.]

There are no solid answers to any of the original questions.

Some people buy kits to build them. Some people buy kits with no intention of ever building them... or even opening the box. They buy them as "investments" and either hold them in the hopes they increase in value, or they turn right around and resell them, hoping to make a quick buck. And of course, some people build and collect.

As far as explaining a given kit's value or "worth," again, no simple answer. There's no science behind a given kit's price (aside from the original MSRP the kit had when first manufactured). Vintage "collectible" kits values rise and fall, they're not necessarily constant. But as with any item considered "collectible" (and that would include pretty much anything you can think of!), the current "market value" is a factor of rarity and demand. An item can be rare, yet not in much demand, so price stays relatively low. An item may be more common but have much more appeal to collectors (more demand), so prices can climb. And as already stated, the bottom line is that any kit is worth whatever a particular buyer feels like paying for it on any given day.

There are no hard and fast "rules" that can explain kit prices. On any given day, a kit can sell for a crazy price to someone who really, really wanted it for his collection, and was willing to pay a crazy price to get it. On another day, the very same kit can sell for much less. Don't bother trying to make sense of kit prices, because it can't be done.

[Guest Johnny]

Always was told the only dumb question is one not asked.

As far as price I have seen a collector about have a coronary after someone bought a rare sealed kit from him for 300 dollars and immediately open it up and when asked why he would do such a thing announced he intended to build it!

The guy was offering him more than he paid trying to get it back even after it was opened!

Two different ideas of what have a certain kit is about. One looking at it as a "collectors item" that would go up in value and the other seeing it as a kit he had always wanted to build but never could find and was willing to pay a high "collector" price to get it!

There are some out there that if I had the money to play with would buy to build too.

[Ace-Garageguy]

There have been a couple of times, when I've actually been making decent money, that I've paid what was a lot for a kit at the time. Never more than about $100, but still a lot at the time. What I bought were sealed 1/25 kits that I'd had as a kid, and had a particular fondness for. I opened them, and savored the smell and all of the associated memories of a more peaceful and hopeful time. It was like going back to being young, for just a few minutes. Was it worth it? Yup. Will I build the 'collector' kits? Yup. I don't see any point having them otherwise.

[Mooneyzs]

Awww, man. I thought this was going to be a thread about listing the dumbest questions we've ever seen on this forum. Leaving disappointed.

I thought the same thing.

[Greg Myers]

A sign I had up in my class room for many years :

don't be afraid to ask stupid questions. They're easier to answer than the hard ones.

[Tom Geiger]

What makes some kits so desirable, and fetch 'moon money' when listed as an auction?

All you need are two numpties who both want the kit very badly. Kinda like dueling mo'runs.

What are the driving factors that push model kit values?

The auction result of the above duel

Why do prices surge and then fall drastically, with no rhyme or reason?

Both numpties now have a copy of the kit.

[Alyn]

This has got to be one of the Dumbest Questions Ever Asked On This Forum ....

[zenrat]

I love duelling morons.

My wife's $200 pushbike was bid up to $650 by duelling morons. Heck, for that I threw in free delivery!

Jo-Han Turbine Car - i'd love one of them. It's just begging to be built into a radical bubble topped custom...

[Fabrux]

I have been tracking the prices of the MPC GM pickups since December and the average price for the most recent reissue (1984 GMC) goes on average for $40. A guy on a Facebook buy/sell page has two of them and wants $80 each for them! Don't think he'll get it...

[Danno]

I have been tracking the prices of the MPC GM pickups since December and the average price for the most recent reissue (1984 GMC) goes on average for $40. A guy on a Facebook buy/sell page has two of them and wants $80 each for them! Don't think he'll get it...

But IF he does, he'll laugh all the way to the bank and 20 more kits will show up on eBay for $40 apiece the next day. Gahrunteed!

[mikemodeler]

I have been tracking the prices of the MPC GM pickups since December and the average price for the most recent reissue (1984 GMC) goes on average for $40. A guy on a Facebook buy/sell page has two of them and wants $80 each for them! Don't think he'll get it...

If that is the case, then I just might sell a couple that I have in the garage that I just found! I believe the Big Lots sticker with $5 is still on them so it would be a good return on my investment!

[Harry P.]

I love duelling morons.

My wife's $200 pushbike was bid up to $650 by duelling morons. Heck, for that I threw in free delivery!

Don't be so quick to play the "moron" card.

Just because someone is willing and able to spend a lot more on a kit than you think is appropriate doesn't automatically make them a moron. That person may have a personal reason for wanting a particular kit... maybe it was the first kit his father ever bought him when he was a kid... maybe it's the kit he always wanted but never had the chance to get until now... there are all sorts of reasons why a person would be willing to pay big bucks for a kit that you don't think is worth the price.