What Irked You Today?

[Harry P.]

First the salesman tells you how great and trouble free the car is, than the finance man tells you how you better buy the extended warranty on that piece of junk before it bankrupts you.

True!

[Joe Handley]

My daughter has had her Fiat 500 for two years now and the car has never been back to the dealer. Something about Americans building Italian cars in Mexico must have gone right!

That's what I've found with my 200, only time it's been wrenched on at the dealer was for oil changes and tire rotations, outside of that, it's had computer updates for the trans and a recall for the active head restraints, which also were just more software updates as well. A friend of mine had a 2008 Sebring with the 2.7l Flex Fuel motor and 4 speed trans that had 160k on it when he recently bought a '12 3.6l Charger, and the feel of that car was horrible, the interior plastics alone were so bad I was about to start looking for Racing Champions/RC2 copyrights molded into the door panels and dash!

[Joe Handley]

Oh, for A new irk;

People whe park their cars in the fire lane right on the ramp for handicap access! Saturday is wzs a woman waiting for her kids in a small crossover and today is was a father in an Audi A8 sedan....

[martinfan5]

My daughter has had her Fiat 500 for two years now and the car has never been back to the dealer. Something about Americans building Italian cars in Mexico must have gone right!

But Fiat is not an American car though

Edited June 24, 2014 by martinfan5

[Joe Handley]

But Fiat is not an American car though

IIRC, those are being built in the same plant that the P.T. Cruiser was built in

[Tom Geiger]

IIRC, those are being built in the same plant that the P.T. Cruiser was built in

Yup, I was upset when they cancelled the PT Cruiser. I figured we hadn't seen the crusing van yet, and maybe it had a few years left in it. Then I heard that the capacity was needed to build the Fiat 500s.

[martinfan5]

IIRC, those are being built in the same plant that the P.T. Cruiser was built in

So Toyotas are American too then

[Harry P.]

Why do Japanese car makers have assembly plants in the US, but American car makers don't have any assembly plants in Japan?

[Rob Hall]

Why do Japanese car makers have assembly plants in the US, but American car makers don't have any assembly plants in Japan?

Japan is pretty much a closed market, I've read..very few imports.

[Harry P.]

Japan is pretty much a closed market, I've read..very few imports.

Not fair.

[Rob Hall]

Not fair.

Reality isn't fair, nor is international trade...it is what it is

[Harry P.]

Reality isn't fair, nor is international trade...it is what it is

Guess so.

[Tom Geiger]

Japan is pretty much a closed market, I've read..very few imports.

It's actually too small a market to aggressively pursue. And Japanese are terribly loyal to their local brands... but they import US antique and muscle cars like crazy. Go figger.

What was interesting is that when Honda first started building cars in Ohio, they exported LHD Accords back to Japan and they sold them as a novelty. Japan also has laws that make owning a car older than 5 years old very costly to keep their internal auto market going. Those cars were low mile, perfect condition cars that caused havok in other RHD markets like Australia until they put roadblocks on their import. Still they are chopped up and sold for parts, which are then exported to Australia. I was told about entire front clips of cars including the dashboard being sold that way to display the low mileage.

The US manufacturers are all focusing on partnerships in China right now. The few US cars we sell in Japan will probably be sourced from China soon enough.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[Harry P.]

I'm waiting for the day that India starts placing their customer service call centers here in the US.

"Howdy! Sanjay's the name and customer service is the game! Now what kin I do ya fer?"

[Joe Handley]

It's 5 years old, but this article should give some idea. http://m.autos.aol.com/article/japan-bias/

[Ace-Garageguy]

... it's had computer updates for the trans and a recall for the active head restraints, which also were just more software updates as well...

And a car needs software to run the transmission and the HEAD RESTRAINTS...why, exactly???

[Rob Hall]

And a car needs software to run the transmission and the HEAD RESTRAINTS...why, exactly???

..software to control the electronics.

[Ace-Garageguy]

..software to control the electronics.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. There is NO compelling reason for automatic gearboxes to be computer controlled, or at least not as heavily software-dependent as they currently are. Neither is there for head restraints.

There is a propensity today to think that EVERYTHING has to be computer-controlled, and mindlessly over-complicated "technology" is fashionable. I'm expecting computer-controlled toilet paper to enhance the butt-wiping experience in the near future.

More complication IS NOT NECESSARILY BETTER. "Drive-by-wire" is a perfect example. It takes several sensors, stepper motors, many wires and connectors, and an electronic throttle control module and software to run it...just to replace one little cable that was ACTUALLY CONNECTED TO THE GAS PEDAL AND THE THROTTLE BUTTERFLY. Simple, idiot-proof, and dead reliable...and not subject to "unintended acceleration". Please.

"Fly-by-wire" was a system introduced on the F-16 fighter for a VERY GOOD REASON. To make the aircraft extremely responsive, it was designed to be slightly unstable. It was SO responsive that it reacted to pilot input far FASTER than any human could anticipate and correct, so a computer interface was developed to dampen out pilot over-input and make the thing usable by humans. Cars ARE NOT F-16 fighters.

[booboo60]

Having Painted my Snake Monza, and applied the decals, let it stand about 36 hrs, then grabbed the Tamyia clear Coat, only too find out the hard way thats its "pearl White" and not clear, yup, had the wrong top on the can, yea I looked, but should have did a test spray! Son of A,, so, wasn't to heavy a coat, just a cpl quick passes but,, bad enough, I used some light thinner and light wipes, and got most off, need to do a little touch up, but looks good, or not as good, but. It is what it is! Good luck, and always do a test spray, lol

[Rob Hall]

Computer controlled transmissions are for greater efficiency and economy. Active head restraints are a safety feature. Cars are more complex today, that's just the way it is in the 21st century.

[Modelbuilder Mark]

Why do Japanese car makers have assembly plants in the US, but American car makers don't have any assembly plants in Japan?

Ford builds a few vehicles in Japan including an Escape and Escape Hybril.

They also build cars in France, Germany, Brazil and of course Mexico.

Chevy builds the Colorado in Japan as well as other cars globally.

Toyota builds so many cars in the US now that they are also going to start exporting Toyota's from the US.

The automotive landscape needs to be looked at much like the rest of the world, as a global market, not just US cars, or Japanese cars. In addition to where they are built, who owns the companies? There are Japanese companies that own stock in GM, Ford etc, and the other way around? Ford increased is a major shareholder in Mazda, and Ford maintains a regional office in Minato, Tokyo, Japan.

http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/content/db/b-db-autos.shtml

There is more info out there on the web, but there is more and more "US cars" being built in Japan.

[Joe Handley]

Computer controlled transmissions are for greater efficiency and economy. Active head restraints are a safety feature. Cars are more complex today, that's just the way it is in the 21st century.

This, I beleive the headrest computers use an gyros or something to activate the active restraints in the case of a rear end collision, which is basically a fancy way to get the head rests to pop forward to catch your head in case if a rear end collision to reduce, if not prevent a case of whiplash.......now if something goes wrong and it activates without an impact to set it off, you might run the risk getting DiNozo'd by your own car, but hopefully you just did something to deserve it before that happens

Now with the trans, these reflashes will allow the manufacturer to change the transmissions behavior and performance without pulling it out of the car and replacing or rebuilding it. Even though he knew it was only a software change, Dad swore it felt like my 200 has had a couple torque converter swaps and maybe a shift kit installed just from what these software updates did from the way it was when I bought it in April 2012. If you did this to any of the 100% mechanic Torqueflight based transmissions than came before this one, FWD or RWD, you would have to remove it and at least install a shift kit if not a new converter too to get the same change as this simple update that took an hour or so (including the trip to and from the dealer) out of my day off did!

Now so far as the "drive by wire" nonsense, I agree fully, that, the stability control system, and the factory installed at T rated Eagle LS2 tires are the only real dislikes. I have found that those 3 do work against some of the more spirited driving manuvers I've tried and I do think the traction control sometimes makes the torque steer worse under hard accelleration too.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Joe Handley

[martinfan5]

Ford builds a few vehicles in Japan including an Escape and Escape Hybril.

They also build cars in France, Germany, Brazil and of course Mexico.

Chevy builds the Colorado in Japan as well as other cars globally.

Toyota builds so many cars in the US now that they are also going to start exporting Toyota's from the US.

The automotive landscape needs to be looked at much like the rest of the world, as a global market, not just US cars, or Japanese cars. In addition to where they are built, who owns the companies? There are Japanese companies that own stock in GM, Ford etc, and the other way around? Ford increased is a major shareholder in Mazda, and Ford maintains a regional office in Minato, Tokyo, Japan.

http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/content/db/b-db-autos.shtml

There is more info out there on the web, but there is more and more "US cars" being built in Japan.

Ford has 80 plants world wide, I am not going list all them, so check the link

http://corporate.ford.com/our-company/operations-worldwide/global-operations-list

And General Motors has just as many world wide

http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-manufacturing/

And I think this needs reposting again showing just how much we live in a global automotive world, that old foreign vs domestic stuff is long gone, and is no longer relevant in 2014

http://www.toomanycars.info/CarRelationship/Car_Rel-Image2.html

Edited June 24, 2014 by martinfan5

[Ace-Garageguy]

Computer controlled transmissions are for greater efficiency and economy. Active head restraints are a safety feature. Cars are more complex today, that's just the way it is in the 21st century.

I'd really like to see an unbiased engineering analysis of just how much "efficiency and economy" are realized by computer-controlled transmissions, as opposed to well-designed and calibrated valve-body controlled transmissions. A hydraulic valve body is nothing more than a speed-and-pressure-sensitive liquid / mechanical computer anyway, and the non-computer 700R4 I swapped in to my Jag XJ-6 accelerates much better than the standard Borg Warner, and still returns 23mpg on the highway. Not bad for a big, heavy car.

Active head restraints? Just more silly bell whistles to fail. Again, I'd like to see unbiased engineering data on the actual EFFECTIVENESS of them, as opposed to marketing "feel-good", sense of security BS.

"Cars are more complex today, that's just the way it is in the 21st century." Yes, and not always for good reasons...just because, as you say, that's just the way it is. Nobody seems to question the actual NEED for some of the idiot stuff that's creeping into everything. Engineering philosophy used to have as its mantra "the SIMPLE solution is the better". I guess simple and elegant is out of fashion too.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

Now with the trans, these reflashes will allow the manufacturer to change the transmissions behavior and performance without pulling it out of the car and replacing or rebuilding it. Even though he knew it was only a software change, Dad swore it felt like my 200 has had a couple torque converter swaps and maybe a shift kit installed just from what these software updates did from the way it was when I bought it in April 2012. If you did this to any of the 100% mechanic Torqueflight based transmissions than came before this one, FWD or RWD, you would have to remove it and at least install a shift kit if not a new converter too to get the same change as this simple update that took an hour or so (including the trip to and from the dealer) out of my day off did!

A "shift kit" in the older transmissions was installed from underneath, requiring only the oil pan to be dropped, not removal from the vehicle. It effected the valve body, essentially a hydraulic / mechanical speed and pressure sensitive computer that controlled shift points and shift firmness. Upgraded clutches and bands did require removal, and they still do. Varying the stall-speed of a torque converter can not, to the best of my knowledge, be accomplished by a computer. The point at which a "lockup" converter locks CAN be varied, but I believe that's all.

Yes, the computer-controlled trans can make sense where every last bit of economy is being squeezed from a slushbox-equipped car (avoid the problem entirely...drive a manual gearbox), and where a "performance" valve-body analog and late converter lockup are desired. It's STILL over-complication for limited gains in reality.

The question is whether the tiny ACTUAL improvements in economy and safety are really worth the complication, expense, and over time, frailty and un-repairability of many of these perceived-as-necessary systems.

I currently own 4 over-25 year-old vehicles that have been rendered USELESS by aging onboard electronics. I know America has become a throw-away culture, but it's being almost enforced. The typical owners of these things simply couldn't justify the expense to get and keep them running again. Crush 'em, and buy new? Nah. I'll deal with it.