Tom Geiger Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 On 10/15/2013 at 12:57 AM, Rob Hall said: Sad but true...there are a lot of unpleasant people on the model car side of things.. Overall, hobbies attract colorful people. The very smart, the very odd. Those who march to the beat of a different drummer, and those who refuse to march at all. That's what makes it interesting.
Harry P. Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 On 10/15/2013 at 1:04 AM, Tom Geiger said: Overall, hobbies attract colorful people. The very smart, the very odd. Those who march to the beat of a different drummer, and those who refuse to march at all... And of course, those who march to the voices in their heads...
FASTBACK340 Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 The valve cover reference is a good point. People pointed out a technical inaccuracy (NOT a debatable item....) and turned it into a lynch mob mentality because someone respected was wrong. Plain & simple. Think that makes us look like we care about accuracy or we just build "interpretations"? Military types build accurately. If it means spending a few dollars to obtain that end results, that's why they enjoy the hobby. They can get those results and build it correctly. Me personally, I would love to have a gas powered 1/4 scale R/C car running a worked chainsaw motor. But unfortunately I can't afford to indulge. But I'm not going to get semi-involved in the hobby and complain it's too expensive either..... Besides, Harry said it best.....
Tom Geiger Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 On 10/15/2013 at 1:07 AM, Harry P. said: And of course, those who march to the voices in their heads... You talkin' 'bout me???? LOL
martinfan5 Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 On 10/15/2013 at 1:07 AM, Harry P. said: And of course, those who march to the voices in their heads... Sometimes its hard to understand them when they are arguing with each other
Bennyg Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 On 10/15/2013 at 1:26 AM, martinfan5 said: Sometimes its hard to understand them when they are arguing with each other Lol! On a serious note, I feel we can learn a lot from the sci fi, military and aircraft modellers. They do some fairly cool paint work and scratch building. Ben
Tom Geiger Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 On 10/15/2013 at 2:29 AM, Bennyg said: Lol! On a serious note, I feel we can learn a lot from the sci fi, military and aircraft modellers. They do some fairly cool paint work and scratch building. Ben Absolutely right! I've gone to IPMS shows just to see the level of detail and to see what would translate to my own building. I did find people who were willing to share their expertise.
Modelmartin Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) I have been going to IPMS and various NNL and model contests for over 30 years now. When IPMSers see real workmanship on cars they recognize it. They live in fear of having to apply a gloss paint job! I have seen plenty of stucco paint jobs on F4 and other aircraft. I have seen dioramas that look like grade school class projects. I have seen aircraft so breathtakingly good that I can not believe it. I have later seen the same models at the Smithsonian Air & Space on display!!! The range of quality is massively wide on both sides of the subject wars. Even though the Aircraft, armor, ship, figure builders strive for accuracy they do use a lot of creativity to represent their subjects. I reject the argument that car builders are more creative. I can't think of anything more dull than just applying the same set of parts to a car to make it a pro/street/touring or lead sled, gasser, etc. There are creative types and dullards on both sides! There are some really boring customs and rods out there and some pretty exciting pieces of armor. I think there are tons of goodies available to model car builders. It is an embarassment of riches in my opinion. For those who have been building since the '60s you know what I am talking about. I want to know if there is even one builder out there who has finished all his projects and can't build anymore until new goodies are released!!! One member referred to the fact that car builders need to buy the aftermarket stuff for the market to expand. I have personally experienced the lack of market support for these products. Car builders are tightwads generally. I have had people clamor for a project while in development and then when it is released it totally fails in the market. My Corvette SS was a perfect example of that. Edited October 15, 2013 by Modelmartin
johnbuzzed Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 On 10/14/2013 at 10:04 PM, Tom Geiger said: Since you mentioned it... I have been astounded by the lack of respect for automotive subject builders at IPMS events that embrace the fantasy builders, the Star Trek and movie monster figure guys. Wasn't there a NASCAR Tide version of the Enterprise from the original series at the NNL East one year? That was pretty cool.
johnbuzzed Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 On 10/15/2013 at 12:57 AM, Rob Hall said: Sad but true...there are a lot of unpleasant people on the model car side of things.. There are unpleasant people in all facets of scale modeling, but "that's life".
Eshaver Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Tom, that bunch of people you refer to as those who don't follow the leaders, yeah, that's ME !!!!!!!!! I'm headed to two contests between October 26th and Richmond Virginia in February . The same crowd that calls itself an Automobile plastic model group also seems to be the same bunch who judge at a I P M S competition in Richmond . I'm going to show both the former Zeppelin Diner , ( Shown below ) and a model of a Metal Pre fab Gilmore station, ( Hey Donnie Bogger - where you be ? ) Yes, once again, I'll be competing against a kit of a star ship , a kit of a train and some little fence with a muddy car . look, I'm the Rodney Dangerfield of model building in Virginia . I follow no one , I am not a club member , nor do I wish to do the same subjects that I see here on this board . anyone here wanna start a casual group of Misfit model builders ? Yeah, the line forms to da left !
Art Anderson Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 On 10/14/2013 at 10:04 PM, Tom Geiger said: Since you mentioned it... I have been astounded by the lack of respect for automotive subject builders at IPMS events that embrace the fantasy builders, the Star Trek and movie monster figure guys. I think one ought to consider where IPMS and IPMS/USA got their start here: The original IPMS was formed in the United Kingdom (England) as an organization focused on the building of plastic scale models of aircraft, in a time when the "serious" scale modeler there did his/her work in WOOD. Those wooden model builders looked severely down their noses at plastic model builders as little more than "kit assemblers". Fast forward to about 50 years ago: A small group of primarily 1/72 scale model aircraft builders (1/72 was just then beginning to appear on hobby shop shelves here in the US) got together, by phone and snail mail to form IPMS/USA. One of those founders was a woman from here in Lafayette, whom I knew very well until her untimely passing in 1999-Doris I. Reeves. The club's focus was military aircraft, and that with a fairly rigid rule that the model (in order to be entered in competition at a regional or national convention) simply HAD to be built from plastic--no metal, no wood allowed. Sometime about 1970 or so, they broadened the scope of the organization to admit armor modelers (and, there was a good bit of angst over that on the part of some original "purists"!). Shortly thereafter, IPMS/USA allowed the entry of 54mm (approximately 1/35 scale) military figures and the modelers who were painting and detailing them. This was followed in a couple of years by the encouragement (at least tacitly) of modelers of ships. But in all this, there still was a fairly rigid requirement that the models for contest entry be all plastic (with the exception of those 54mm white metal military figures). Sometime in the early 70's, as metal detail parts, even metal kits became available in IPMS/USA's main areas of interest, there was even an attempt to specify a limitation as to non-plastic content of a model entered in competition--even that created controversy--was that to be a percentage by parts count, by weight, by visible portions of the model? Some even went to the point of reminding people that even metal is "plastic" in its characteristics, capable of being molded from it's liquid state, bent, pounded or otherwise formed into infinite shapes, and so on! About 1975 or thereabouts, IPMS/USA began to recognize car modelers (I was one of the early entrants of model cars at the Region IV Convention hosted by the Roscoe Turner Chapter of IPMS/USA in Indianapolis--which group, by reason of their proximity to Indianapolis Motor Speedway embraced car builders early on. However, rather than just classifying model cars as exactly what they were/are--model cars--termed them "Non-Military Vehicles". That "Non'" handle spread across IPMS/USA, their not realizing (perhaps not caring) that classifying the cars and trucks we here like to build as "Non-Military" was seen (and I think rightly so!) as somewhat of a slight against our part of the larger scale modeling hobby. An even older scale modeling organization existed here in the US: The International Association of Automotive Modelers, or IAAM. IAAM began in 1951 as the Chicago Association of Automotive Modelers in 1951 (later morphed into the Lake Michigan Model Car Club--making that club perhaps the oldest model car club in North America I believe). IAAM considered automotive modelers to be legitimate ONLY if they scratchbuilt their models, from wood, metal, paper, or even raw plastic materials--but model cars built from kits were decidedly looked down upon--and even when IAAM tried to broaden their scope to include kit-originated models, the older "purists" tended to have a collective cow. Needless to say, by the early 1980's, IAAM (never a huge organization to begin with) gradually faded away as their membership was reaching their seventies and eighties (Hmm, now that is beginning to sound familiar?). The interest, even "thrust" of any scale modeling organization pretty much depends on the collective interests of those who spearhead(ed) that group: If they are primarily a military modelers' group, of course the interests of the members of that group will be biased toward military models. If a car group, then when they decide to hold a contest embracing all manner of scale models, often the non-automotive subjects placed on their tables are at least considered to be just that, non-automotive, whether or not they are officially classed as such. We as model builders, when going to a contest as car/truck builders, tend to cluster around the model subjects that interest us, do we not? Sure we do! Factory stock enthusiasts tend to seek out their fellow travelers, drag race builders gravitate to other drag race builders, and the same thing goes on with truck builders, custom car builders, NASCAR builders--and so on ad nauseum. With only a small number of exceptions, that does seem to be the case. It's pretty much the human condition--we, all of us, tend to seek out and interface primarily with others with whom we share common interests. And, so it goes, or so it seems to me--and I've been attending model car contests (with more than a few IPMS Conventions) for a good 40 years. Art
ZTony8 Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 I'm one of Art's exceptions.When I go to a model car contest/show I look at all the categories probably because I'll build something in any category(maybe that's partly why my skills are lax). Having said that,I've only attended one IPMS show and that was out of curiosity.I wanted to see if the stories about snobbery were true.I didn't notice any personally but I did get a sense that many of those IPMSers were WAY round the bend,far worse than ANY car/truck modeler I've ever encountered.Their intensity bordered on the scary.
Eshaver Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 You may have heard the term, Heavy Veggie , greenie weenie . O K I P M S to me translates to a relentless Rivvetter
Bigjeff Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Rivet counting isn't fun for most armored or plane guys IMO...I think for most of us is still about enjoying ourselves and a loud minority is giving us a bad rep
Tom Geiger Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Quote The interest, even "thrust" of any scale modeling organization pretty much depends on the collective interests of those who spearhead(ed) that group: If they are primarily a military modelers' group, of course the interests of the members of that group will be biased toward military models. If a car group, then when they decide to hold a contest embracing all manner of scale models, often the non-automotive subjects placed on their tables are at least considered to be just that, non-automotive, whether or not they are officially classed as such. Agreed. The experience you have at your local IPMS group or show will vary by group and region, depending on what interests their membership.
martinfan5 Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 I dont think that anyone was brought this up yet, but the key difference is the people , now I am just going out on a limb, or guessing here, but isnt the make up of military /aircraft builders of guys that were in the military at some point in their life, where as the automotive side, its a little bit of everyone.
Eshaver Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Jonathan B) , seriously, yer onto something !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Art Anderson Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 On 10/15/2013 at 11:38 PM, martinfan5 said: I dont think that anyone was brought this up yet, but the key difference is the people , now I am just going out on a limb, or guessing here, but isnt the make up of military /aircraft builders of guys that were in the military at some point in their life, where as the automotive side, its a little bit of everyone. Not necessarily true, in my experience. Art
martinfan5 Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) On 10/15/2013 at 11:58 PM, Art Anderson said: Not necessarily true, in my experience. Art Care to share why you think I am wrong? Key word with that you said being "my", I think what I said holds some water if you will, I thought the Milarty instilled discipline , attention to detail, just a few things that I can think of that go hand in hand with building models, and are not most military /air craft model builders all about attention to detail, having the discipline for the attention to the details, I mean, from my little understanding of that side of the hobby, those guys wont accept a kit unless its 100% accurate as it can be, they build to perfection and for perfection. It makes some sense to me, but again, what do I know right? I could say that in my experience , Desert Scale Classic is the best model show/contest in the US, but I have only experience DSC, so that wouldn't hold much water now would it? Edited October 16, 2013 by martinfan5
Danno Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 The concept and the word you are looking for is 'respect.' The military and other paramilitary callings teach and embed that. The general, unwashed masses occasionally, but seldom really learn it. You're actually 'onto something' . . . you just misfired a little . . . because 'respect' is a large part of discipline and self-discipline. Attention to detail may be a side-effect but can be learned even while having no respect for others or for oneself. And, some people who exhibit great respect for others may still not possess the ability to devote attention to details. In those contexts, it's actually quite obvious, as you said.
Casey Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 On 10/14/2013 at 9:10 PM, Shardik said: Wow! This has gotten to be a very interesting and passionate discussion, but I do believe we've gotten a little off topic. I guess what I'm saying is that, IMO, this is really a non-issue. I agree on both counts, and we seem to be straying off topic again. I think we'll follow Shardik's sage advice here.
Recommended Posts