Pocher Rolls Sedanca

[sjordan2]

I think several posts got lost here during the move to a new server.

[sjordan2]

I wish you'd just pick up here where you left off. No need to fill in the blanks from the outage.

[Cato]

I wish you'd just pick up here where you left off. No need to fill in the blanks from the outage.

I obviously have no choice. Six people are following this and I feel I owe them that.

[Cato]

REPOST OF LOST DATA.

Inching forward...

Since posting nearly a week ago I have been hacking away on the minute details that make the car sit 'right'. Ain't as easy as it sounds-at least for me it ain't...

Having corrected the front ride height previously, now I needed the rear to get lower with the wheel in the correct visual (and operational) position fore and aft.

After much head scratching I tracked down the the fact that the cowl and possibly the thick floorboard had warps, throwing off the works. Not really bad but not 'rest in place' for no tension on the fasteners. Sanding, nipping and refitting the major pieces a thousand times, I got it right. Really glad I switched to sturdier fasteners.

After readjusting the rear springs and adding lowering shims, (posted earlier) I still needed more drop. Discovering the warp led me to make a new attachment to the chassis for the rear fenders (which are bolted to the body), I found tightening the new bolts brought the body down flush to the chassis. Thus bringing it closer to the wheel top.This also required a small notch at the forward trunk corners to clear the new bolts. Now the 'dead cat' space was minimal and very tasteful. Dizzy yet?

Here are dead side views; I cut a simple file card to shape, sprayed black and inserted as an inner fender closure panel so you don't see through to the other side. A permanent, finished one will be made when all the attaching is finally done. I know it doesn't look like much but a lot of turmoil expended to get here. Now the body is correct fore and aft, side to side and up and down. No parlor trick in a Pocher...

[Cato]

REPOST OF LOST DATA:

The MMC work stands hold from the axle stubs, a simple and brilliant design that holds the model where the wheels attach. so the full weight is on the model all the time. It is supported by the MMC bronze front axle, the solid tube rear axle shaft and the stainless steel leaf springs, which are rigid and designed to prevent the sag. They are completely horizontal with no built-in arch. What you see you will always have regardless of the weight you add. It's just as if the model were on the ground with all the wheels attached.

Indeed I have 4, 1.5 pound weights (actually cylindrical bearings from 1:1 train axles - you've seen those gray cylinders in various photos in the thread) which I use to weight the floorboard to hold alignments for me. No affect whatsoever on ride height when they're aboard.

That's why I had to shim and adjust the hanger angles to get the springs 'up' closer to the body to lower the car - no pressure would change them. I could only take apart the eight leaves to re-arch them in the upward (at the ends), conventional way. There is no chassis clearance at the ends to arch them downward at the ends (to lower the car) and I wouldn't want to fool with changing their shape.

And to be honest, they are one of the signatures of my car; I didn't paint or gaiter them because I just love how they look under there.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Cato

[Cato]

REPOST OF LOST DATA:

For better or worse...

The final look.This is how it will sit on the ground. Photo over-exposed so that the dark fender areas are more visible. Cast your 'yea', 'nay' or 'I don't care' comments at will:

Compare here to a reference build on the Koo DVD of an out of box-assembled model:

Here is the same photo graphically altered to the spec I was shooting for.

[Cato]

REPOST OF LOST DATA:

Needing a break from the grueling measuring and fitting process, I decided to relax and install 80 PE rivets (I suspect they were carriage bolts on the 1:1) on the edges of the floor planks. They are .050" diameter heads and sub-atomic particle thick. Perfect for a twitchy, blinding afternoon.

They are fastened with a drop of clear enamel and the boards are washed around them and the edges with Tamiya Smoke.

Of course this is almost invisible, upside down on the bottom of the floorboard and covered with a nest of pipes, linkage rods and clunky under-bits. But I love detail you have to search for. I hate it when you're disappointed not finding any. I'll show you next time I invert for lower work.

[Cato]

REPOST OF LOST DATA:

Getting square...

You may want a No-Doz tablet to stay awake through this one but this is what I concocted to get the coachwork true and plumb. Or you may not. Your results may vary...

Much measuring revealed a moderate warp in the floor (.097" thick) which in turn cause the side body panels to be up in the left front and right rear. Bad words followed.

Not wishing to mess with heat gun or hot water, I hoped that improved fasteners would correct that. Here we go.

Lot going on in this photo. The left rear corner, floor resting on the chassis rails. First is the big central slot I cut so that the crossmember would not push the floor up off the rails (thank you Pocher). At the rear corners of the floor, I drilled the floor for 2mm 'studs' I made from threaded rod and styrene rod I used as locators to center the floor side to side and to stop it's rearward location. Finally, just below and aft of the floor is a chassis bracket which is supposed to attach to the rear fenders and isn't even close after you move the body aft to correct the wheel location. It has a white styrene insert, more about that later:

Note the floor only touches the chassis here in the rear and at the cowl in front, a recipe for a squishy model:

Seen here is the 2mm stud, (plus the styrene rod 'stop') tapped through the chassis rail top and bottom and epoxied in place. This makes a secure rear anchor point:

Moving forward; after discussion with an experienced Pocher builder (thank you Harry), the idea was presented to add spacers to secure the forward end of the floor which has no provided way to secure it. This lets any twist take the body where it wants. So I dreamed-up some basswood blocks, easy to cut and sand to correct dimension to touch the floor bottom and chassis top without altering the dimension. The space was .354" on each side with the floor weighted so it would touch flush. But how to secure? First, note the silver circle on the chassis just below the block; that's where the body gets 'pinned' to the chassis at the lower attachment point by a Pocher wonky screw. You're supposed to locate this spot on the body side (which overlaps and obscures it) and is all that holds the body to the chassis. The body separately attaches to the floor-more another time. Did I mention that they're not the same on each side?

The same area on the driver side. Note the silver circle here is drilled way off center compared to above. You want to tear your hair out. My immediate solution was to redrill and tap for 0-80 bolts to get a secure body side attachment. Locating where to drill on the body sides took may holes (which will be filled) and not just because the body is moved aft 5mm. Note that the levers are dead center in the floor opening where Koo recommends they be to get the rear wheel correct. He got that right:

A good look at the spacer blocks; they have a .140" styrene rod inserted and CA'd and they are attached to the chassis with epoxy. Finding their correct location was tedious. The rod is drilled and tapped (.072") for 2mm bolts which I make by CA'ing a nut to the threaded rod. OK but how does the floor attach?:

The floor bottom. Because the bolt head would stick-up through the floor top (where the carpet will be), I needed to counter sink the head so the upper floor would be smooth. So here are .060" 'sub-floor' plates. Their thickness must be subtracted from the .354" space dimension and the basswood reduced to .294" height to accommodate them. They are the size of the wood blocks and drilled for the 2mm bolt diameter ONLY. This is a 'stop' for the nut. Not attached yet but located to clear the wood plank flooring and provide a location to drill the floor itself:

The floor top side, drilled .155" to clear the nut driver needed to install the fastener. Now the carpet will rest in peace:

Remember that chassis bracket way back in the 1st snap? Here's its reason for being; a bracket cast onto the inner rear fender. It has been drilled for a 0-80 bolt (seen here) and secures the fender to chassis where previously, Pocher only has the fender attach to the trunk side. The chassis bracket has been tapped also in the new correct location. This anchors the rear body securely (the fenders normally bolt to the body inner sides and 'float'). Locating this improvement requires all the previous centering and securing the floor.

My sincere hope is that I didn't put-off the few remaining faithful that have followed this saga. Again I say you can build a wonderful Pocher without all this mechanical engineering and pig-latin. But should one of you venture into a big classic, I've hoped to provide all the answers to troublesome situations.

You may resume snoring...

[Cato]

REPOST OF LOST DATA:

Not exciting but needed...

So much of what I'm doing lately is structural improvement, as evidenced by the previous body alignment and attachment posts. I felt I needed to make the parts and fasteners strong enough to withstand the constant assembly / disassembly needed for fitting and finishing. And to correct locations for fastening by redrilling and gusseting certain areas.

Nearing the end of this process, here is the attachment of the body sides to the floorboard. Having gotten the floor to attach firmly to the chassis (above), this is the last major improvement to get a straight, and rigid body. It's awfully wobbly the way they give it to you.

The orientation here is that the body and separate floor is upside down. The planking was placed on the floor bottom just to have something pretty to look at. The floor sides fit into a channel in each body side. In the floor, Pocher molded 3 holes per side. In the body side, they molded 3 slots. The floor slips into the sides and the wonkey screws are used with 2mm washer to 'clamp' the body side to the floor. Total junk.

BTW-you have to do this right side up because the roof will touch the table top if you don't, which means you're working a screwdriver blind and upside down and fiddling with tiny washers. The washers are to allow the screws to not fall through the slots. Phooey.

First step was to drill and tap the holes for 2mm threaded rod, making studs out of them. Then CA the 11mm long studs in:

This stops a lot of fiddling. Wanting a simple one-piece 'clamp' to take the place of 3 tiny washers, I settled on the 3 ply wood I used for the floor. It is .035" thick and nicely rigid. Carefully locating the stud holes, I trimmed each piece to fit the length and width of the body side.

I may for the sake of overkill, epoxy the washers to the wood clamps at each hole to allow a seat for the 2mm nuts. But it works well without them. I may also coat the ply with CA (an old R/C plane trick) for additional strength.

Eventually all parts will be painted and finished. The floor sides (seen when you open a door) will be the yellow of the body sides.

About ready to do the body work (filling) and cut the doors out of their openings.

[Cato]

REPOST OF LOST DATA:

The next phase...

The beginning of body and paint work. Here are my methods and some wacky ideas to share.

First off, my filler of choice is Bondo 2 part Professional Glazing and Spot Putty. Hands down the best I've used. Never shrinks, dries as quickly as you mix the hardener (more dries faster) and sands to a feather. Here's my filling 'kit'; a soft plastic lid from a coffee can, a steel mixing rod from a hanger, and two 'spatulas' made from credit cards. All these parts clean easily as soon as you finish applying with a bit of lacquer thinner on a paper towel. I use them over and over.

Here's a secret; First, KNEAD the tube of hardner every time you use it. It's either water or goop and it's better like heavy cream. Use a DOT of the red hardner (put down first) about the size of a dress shirt sleeve button to a blob of the white putty the size of a watch (remember those?) face. Mix and you'll get a shade of pink filler. USE LESS HARDENER and you get a lighter colour, longer-working putty. Useful when doing multiple spot fills. If you want a faster cure, mix to a full pink colour but work fast. As soon as it kicks on your palate, throw it out.

A word of caution; the sanding dust is as fine as resin dust so do your usual precautions to not ingest / inhale it.

Next up in my mad scientist gallery are these pads cut to size and shape to hold big parts while sanding and filling. They are 1/2" thick firm but compressible foam. Sold in home supply stores as mats for standing comfortably while doing shop (or any) work. They cut very easily with a large old carving knife (stolen) from momma's kitchen . They let you bear down while sanding without damage to your part. I'd hate to snap off those door pillars for example. I find taking a bit extra time to make stuff like this makes the job easier and maybe quicker in the long run:

Here's how it looks in action. This is the passenger side after a couple of rounds of filler. The door is only placed. You can see I added a .020" styrene filler to the body edge. Needed because of Pocher's creative sizing of mating parts. The door gap sukked...

A view from inside the body:

The driver's side. The filler has been added to wavy dips in the plastic after it had been leveled with 220 and 400 grit wet-or-dry paper. The lower front corner has filler due to the 4 holes I had to dill to find the exact correct forward body bolting point to the chassis. That was a time-consuming and frustrating exercise. An 0-80 bolt will go there when painted. Every one of the outer edges on all parts had a hard, raised flash which needed leveling:

The rest below.....

[Cato]

REPOST CONTINUED:

Here is the inside of the body, aft of the door. Early on I had decided no turn indicators; I wanted purity of body line above 'correctness' so blanking them off was the answer. Because the body is .095" thick here, I back fill with a strip of styrene so the Bondo has a base. Then, fill the slot in layers-not a huge blob all at once. It adheres to itself just great. As far as making 1:1 safe turns, 'Let them eat cake' as a famous (briefly) woman once said. After all, the Cannonball Run demonstrated that rear view mirrors should be jettisoned:

Here's the outside, with the third layer of putty curing and awaiting sanding:

Here is the central roof section with the lower body piece that connects to the sides. The bottom portion was a flimsy, thinner mold of plastic (why Pocher?) so I added this .060" styrene doubler to make the body 'tub' more sturdy:

And finally for now, the cowl / windshield section. It's important because it connects the two body sides at the front and must be square. Mine had a slight twist in it and my trusty Milwaukee heat gun solved that. It seems to not need filler, just sanding for primer:

Questions or hate mail welcomed...

[Cato]

That's it-up to date right now. Currently adding inner liners and panels for body parts. ALL are modified from how the kit comes. Making it up as I go and fingers crossed. I DO have a nice sturdy, square structure now and that feels good.

Mind swirling with top covering, upholstery, carpet, seat - making ideas. Can't prime the body work as the weather is lousy for it.

Patience required.

[sjordan2]

Unbelievably impressive. But it makes my head hurt.

[Cato]

Reached a point...

Continuing to the inner side of the body panels-which are horrible. This brittle brown plastic comes pre-broken in some of the thinnest areas so you have to improvise. I made neat cuts in non structural areas so they will attach as smaller bits. I paid a lot of attention to the joining of these inner structures to the outer body - mainly so the panels will lie flat and be as 'thin' as possible to allow for the coming upholstery thickness.

Seen here is the piece that goes under the door opening. The inner is straight and brittle, not matching the curve of the outer body and floorboard. So working the heat gun carefully, I tempted fate and bent it to match-and got away with it-twice! Heavily clamped and CA'd multiple times:

Here is the rear inner panel over the wheel arch. I opened the screw holes (which I will glue not screw) and used 1/16" styrene to get good flat contact with the outer body shell. Again, this sinks the panel in and allows upholstery thickness:

Here's a sort of cut-away of the assembled shell. The driver side is not attached but the central roof, pass. side body and door (taped in) are fixed to the floor. That's very easy and sturdy to do now that I sorted a better clamping system for the floor / body join. Seen placed here is the Pocher rear seat shell. I may use it as the base for the seat I will eventually make. I've been studying 1:1 passenger compartments to see which style seat I will copy errr... replicate. Will probably use basswood or balsa for the seat areas:

At this juncture, life is forcing a slight detour in the progress curve. A recent family health scare, now happily resolved, made the Big Rolls the last thing on my mind. That's saying a lot because I love it more than any project I've done other than my 1:1.

A much more pleasant delay is coming; family from across the country will spend 10 days of Christmas with us and it's very welcomed.

To my friends, supporters and viewers, I promise that I have not 'lost interest' in the Rolls; it's just under a dust cover right here next to the (now cleaner) bench. I see it every day and in fact, have gathered vital materials for completion.

I've made decisions and now acquired (with help and kindness from wonderful Pocher friends) the roof fabric and leather for upholstery of the interior. I'm tremendously excited to test my skills again past my limits to get those looking 'right'.

Indeed, the sharp-eyed among you may detect some silver marker dots on the body work which hint at the next 'off-the-beaten-Pocher-path' zaniness I'll attempt. Suggested by a dear friend and Pocher expert builder, I will attempt what he can do with his eyes closed. I can't wait to get back to work. Hope you all stay interested.

Meantime, I'll be on board here frequently to chat and enjoy all the work you all do:

Edited December 16, 2014 by Cato

[sjordan2]

I'll be going into withdrawal through the holidays.

[bbowser]

Enjoy the family holiday break Cato! We'll be here when you get back . Many times a short respite will allow more ideas to come forward and create more enjoyment and satisfaction.

[Twokidsnosleep]

What a fantastic build, you have some superb skills

Thank you for opening my eyes to these wonderful model kits

[jbwelda]

that is a fantastic build and its really heartening to see you meet and defeat these challenges! boy I didn't know Pocher kits were so sketchily engineered! I thought they were real high quality with impressive hardware. I guess not! its fantastic to see you get through this project and thanks for reposting all those pics!

jb

[Cato]

Scott, Bill, Bruce and Skip;

Your extremely kind words and support are most appreciated at this time. Hope you stay on board; I will surely continue in a brief while and would love to have your comments.

Thanks and best holidays to all.

C

[peekay]

Looking forward to more progress in the new year, meanwhile have a great holiday.

BTW I much prefer the lower stance you're aiming for.

[Cato]

Thanks Peter and glad to have you.

[Twokidsnosleep]

Ohh boy, I think I have Pocheritis of the brain...considering pulling the trigger on a couple kits

But the large scale and $500 and up price tags have me uncertain

Edited December 20, 2014 by Twokidsnosleep

[Cato]

Ohh boy, I think I have Pocheritis of the brain...considering pulling the trigger on a couple kits

But the large scale and $500 and up price tags have me uncertain

Just do it....

[Twokidsnosleep]

Just do it....

Wife may shoot me

Both kits are selling as is, one without box and instructions!

Me very chicken

[Cato]

Wife may shoot me

Both kits are selling as is, one without box and instructions!

Me very chicken