Wonder what kit makers think?

[JollySipper]

60's customs are probably my favorite genre of build, both in models and real cars. Pie sections and chop tops are right up my alley (although I can't do them.... yet). But sometimes I wonder what kit makers think of people doing such modifications to a model that they spent a year and umpteen thousand dollars developing, getting proportions right and such.......

Maybe they think they want to provide the best raw materials for free artistic expression?Thats what I like to think, anyway.....

[bbowser]

The kit maker only cares that you bought one . You can smash it with a hammer and flush it for all they care after.

[Art Anderson]

The kit maker only cares that you bought one . You can smash it with a hammer and flush it for all they care after.

I submit that's a little bit subjective, frankly. Perhaps the folks in whatever passes for the "Executive Suite" might not grasp what modelers do with the kits they produce, but I think you can "take it to the bank" that those in the product development side as well as the marketing types are often quite impressed by what they see when they peruse such message boards as this one, or read the model magazines (and they do that!).

In a very real way, while of course, initial sales success of any new model kit is what's hoped for, it's when those people see what modelers actually do with the kits when they get them home that often gives a real "gauge reading" as to what the potential for continued sales and popularity really might be!

Art

[bbowser]

I don't disagree that there are dedicated folks working in the industry, truly interested in what the consumer does with their product. But this is America, and like it or not the bottom line is just that. If you are not producing a dividend for your stockholders next quarter you are out the door.

[Tom Geiger]

But sometimes I wonder what kit makers think of people doing such modifications to a model that they spent a year and umpteen thousand dollars developing, getting proportions right and such.......

They think you voided the warranty since you modified it!

Actually I've had the pleasure of meeting a lot of industry folks and I can say that they are all passionate about their products and do their very best to bring the right things, in as much accuracy as possible, to market. They fight the same things you do on your job... not enough hours in the day or manpower to do everything you want, working within budgets and time constraints, logistics, laws, working with sub-contractors and all those other pesky reality things.

[jbwelda]

I would think that after the fact tinkering with a kit to make variations, kustomizations, etc is a sure sign of consumer interest in and enthusiasm for the kit. That to me would indicate potential for longevity in the market, which would have to warm any industry executives heart.

jb

[sjordan2]

It would be truly interesting to hear from the horse's mouth what the kit makers think. Some people here have a connection to Ed Sexton at Revell, but I don't hear much new in the world of cars. Others have told us what Moebius has in the pipeline, but they're a relatively small company.

If these companies don't keep churning out products, new or reissued, a lot of people would be out of a job.

[LDO]

AMT's Budd "The Cat" Anderson published articles in the '60s about kit bashing their models into new projects. He also did plenty of "whackin' plastic" as he called it (modifying, not just trading parts around).

I got a Chevy inline six from a Galaxie, LTD kit from someone on this board. It didn't have instructions. I e-mailed the mfr and told them about my model engine swap project. They e-mailed a PDF of the instructions. I would think that the designers are thrilled to know that we are buying their products and modifying them.

I'll bet there are already lots of Moebius Chrysler hemis in hot rod models.

[Ace-Garageguy]

On the one hand, any manufacturer is happy you bought the product, and doesn't care much what happens to it afterwards. Look at the 1:1 kit-plane industry. The VAST majority of kit-planes never get completed, but the manufacturers survive on SALES, not what happens afterwards.

The flip side, in the model-car biz, most likely involves mild pleasure on the part of the manufacturers, as wild hacked or highly-detailed kits will show up at contests, shows, and forums like this. That builds consumer interest, and folks will definitely buy a kit after seeing what somebody else has done with it. Whether they ever build it is immaterial, but the well-built or highly modified kits function as free marketing.

[Art Anderson]

To "flesh this out a bit", I'll draw on my 50 years of being in, and around, the hobby industry: That includes working in, and owning my own, hobby shop for a total of 17 years, building box-art and trade show display models (and a bunch of "presentation models" for giving to licensors etc.) for AMT Corporation and its immediate successor Lesney-AMT. Along the way, I spent some time in the model car aftermarket "cottage industry", along with a few years directly in product development in the diecast side of things. Lately, that sort-of resume' includes being in a voluntary advisory place with a model company--from product ideas to researching for information on particular cars, to helping evaluate drawings, 3D scans, and perhaps more importantly reviewing test shots of upcoming kits (including a couple of times where I've taken razor saw, putty, files and sandpaper to make a needed correction very quickly. In addition, I've attended more industry trade shows than I can almost count, from the former Hobby Industry Association of America (HIAA) to wholesaler-sponsored trade exhibitions, to RCHTA and one iHobby show.

Along the way, I've interfaced with "Executive Suite" management who couldn't have cared less about the product beyond numbers on a spread sheet, to glad-handing sales reps who intended to convince me that "such and such" model was going to be the one that "every kid is got to have!". But that was then, this is now. Today's industry people who interface directly with modelers/consumers at shows are very much personally invested in their product, believe me. Even though they may sound at times disinterested in what someone might be saying to them--they do listen, they do filter the tidbits down, process them in their minds, looking for those customer-generated ideas that just might be the next great thing (be that a small detail or an entire model kit subject!). Anymore, it's no longer the disinterested sales rep at trade shows--even at a company display at an NNL nearly as much as it is people who are directly involved with the day-to-day job of developing new product, deciding which older tooling to get off the shelf for squeezing styrene into for that reissued kit. For the most part, those people ARE personally invested in the hobby to some level, in some scale. So to intimate that somehow, the only thing that matters to them is the next quarterly report to stockholders is just a bit disingenuous, in my opinion.

Art

[Harry P.]

No matter the product... model kits, microwaves, Ginsu knives... the bottom line is units sold. What the consumer does with it after they buy it, the manufacturer couldn't care less. Sure, there may be individual employees in isolated cases who "care," but the manufacturer as a whole cares about one thing: units sold.

[keyser]

Hiya Art:

I hope that manufacturers care. You've bumped around 'em all, through multiple owners. I know you care about end product, and other guys here do too.

The thing that baffles me is the issues that consistently slip through with body details. I'm not a wiper motor or horn mount counter, but when I ordered anything from you, Don, Norm, Brad, etc. I never even considered anything would be off. Used to be that way with annuals, lots of stuff from manufacturers, even subjects they never tried before.

Now, errors that really shouldn't make it to production do so. What changed fundamentally? Moebius gets it, and this board is the lunatic fringe, but stuff that would have IPMS howling blows right thru. Someplace this issue gets approved I'd expect.

No single person is responsible, but errors compound. Customers deserve better. I've not seen anything like this in all my years in the hobby, nor do I know anyone that'd tolerate that.

[sbk]

Sort of a derail, but I'd prefer if the manufacturers stayed away from "customizing" a model & stick to putting out an accurate stock car with optional custom parts.

Edited August 7, 2014 by sbk

[Art Anderson]

Hiya Art:

I hope that manufacturers care. You've bumped around 'em all, through multiple owners. I know you care about end product, and other guys here do too.

The thing that baffles me is the issues that consistently slip through with body details. I'm not a wiper motor or horn mount counter, but when I ordered anything from you, Don, Norm, Brad, etc. I never even considered anything would be off. Used to be that way with annuals, lots of stuff from manufacturers, even subjects they never tried before.

Now, errors that really shouldn't make it to production do so. What changed fundamentally? Moebius gets it, and this board is the lunatic fringe, but stuff that would have IPMS howling blows right thru. Someplace this issue gets approved I'd expect.

No single person is responsible, but errors compound. Customers deserve better. I've not seen anything like this in all my years in the hobby, nor do I know anyone that'd tolerate that.

Well, ultimately, every model kit is designed by human beings--computers, etc. are but a tool. And, even in the best of situations errors can happen, and do. Remember, with a model car, someone is charged with the job, the responsibility of creating in miniature, something that millions have seen in real life--and that model, just by being quite small in relation to the real thing, can never be viewed in exactly the same way as the real car (angle of viewing, human "binocular vision", the differences in which we perceive depth model VS a real life car--all of that!). Additionally, while of course, injection molding has its limitations with respect to exact scale of many small, delicate parts (I'm almost shuddering at having to remove the windshield wipers for assembly on my ICM '37 Opel Admiral Kabriolet--they are barely .015" thick, by that measurement wide in cross section!). Even a model car body shell has compromises, most visibly in thickness--20-gauge sheet steel would be membrane thin (almost anyway) in 1/25 scale, and that alone translates into thicker-than-scale details. Windshield glass, in scale, would be about .005" thick were it actually scaled down to 1/25 scale thickness.

All of those things come into play as well.. There are further limitations due to our demand, as model builders, that car bodies be molded in one piece, where the actual car body surface can be a dozen separate sections of sheet metal, all welded together.

So, some errors happen due to limitations, others may be visual, especially if a model car is EXACTLY numerically accurate, due to the human vision factors mentioned above.

Art

[Guest]

Customizing is best left up to the individual. That way, it's exactly how they want it. There aren't many people that liked the chop on the Revell '49 Mercury or the '48 Ford coupe. I have the Mercury and still haven't built it. I'm going to go with the AMT kit and do the chop myself if I ever get the urge. The '48 has more of a hot rod chop than a custom chop on it. I did build it. But, I converted it over to a '41 and built it as a hot rod.

[johnbuzzed]

I don't think it's fair to compare the model manufacturers, which are relatively small companies, to the larger production corporations that are publicly owned and their shares traded daily. Everyone is into business to make money, no two ways about that, no matter what the business is. But some people actually have more of an interest than just making money- in my opinion, some are the model manufacturers, and I'm sure that there are more in so many other companies and corporations around the world. Others are strictly for the money- else, how can one explain the recent GM recall debacle? People died because less money spent on the initial outlay looks great on the spreadsheets and yields bigger dividends to the shareholders. I don't believe that the people in charge at such corporations have any personal interest or investment of any type in what they produce. But, I digress.

I believe the model manufacturers enjoy seeing what we do with their products and they do realize that our creativity can be used to their advantage. For example, we now have another issue of the old AMT Parts Packs. Why? Because we have shown interest in them, because we want to incorporate them into our future builds. The best part for them? More revenue- and, happy customers! I might not be a big fan of everything that has been and will be produced in polystyrene, but I will go to bat for my fellow modelers so that we have a better chance of getting those products that we want. The manufacturers are paying attention.