mike 51 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) Yes..please fix it...I think it will be well worth it for your sales and reputation. Edited October 3, 2014 by mike 51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Metzner Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) I have a test shot body with bumpers sitting on a ruler right now - to these tired old eyes it is 213.5mm long - if you do the math that translates into a full sized car at 210 inches 61 Ventura is 210 inches over all length! (Bonneville is 218)The wheelbase of is 121mm - that translates to 119 inches at full size - right on the money for a 1961 Ventura (Bonneville is 123). Edited October 4, 2014 by Dave Metzner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 And please fix those otherwise awesome 8 lugs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Metzner Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 may not be able to do much to change the centers of the 8 lugs - will see what can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972coronet Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 may not be able to do much to change the centers of the 8 lugs - will see what can be done. Dave , I wish to give kudos to you and your organisation ; the multi-piece 8 lug Pontiac wheels is a great idea ! Now , I'm no Pontiac expert ; those lugs appear to be slightly off in their "crown" shape . I'm not going to say a single negative word concerning the fins' spacing / thickness , as they look fine to me ! Keep up the great work ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Let's compare. Swing and a miss... The ribs are clearly not spaced correctly. On the real thing they are spaced equidistant from each other, not in pairs of two. Also, that round edge just inside of the lugs (between the center cap and the outer rim) is missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisc63 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Look at the difference between Gerry's pic and Mike's....note the relationship between the backlite and the rear wheelwells, doesn't match to my eye. The rear end seems too long,reminds me of the Trumpeter 60 Pontiac. I sure hope I'm wrong..... Appears to be quite a bit of lens distortion in that test shot pic, where the blue car is a nicely photographed profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysleder Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Also, that round edge just inside of the lugs (between the center cap and the outer rim) is missing. I am not certain which round edge you find missing, Harry. I for me find all the round edges to be present, however - the inner edge of the rim (test shot) seem to have gotten a profile, an edge, that is winding it's way around all the lug nuts. I cannot find this shape on the 1:1 rim. And in the extension of this discovery, if this edge is removed maybe that would free up space for the fins to move apart. Edited October 4, 2014 by lysleder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Metzner Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Here is the 8 lug wheel on the 1961 Ventura that we measured as you can see there is a raised rib around the bolting flange, There are several different versions of the 8 lug wheel depending on the year of the car.. they are not all alike. I'll see what can be done to correct the spacing of the ribs on the kit wheel but there may not be much that can be done. Edited October 4, 2014 by Dave Metzner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azers Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I learned something about wheels today. Thank you dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrObsessive Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I have a test shot body with bumpers sitting on a ruler right now - to these tired old eyes it is 213.5mm long - if you do the math that translates into a full sized car at 210 inches 61 Ventura is 210 inches over all length! (Bonneville is 218)The wheelbase of is 121mm - that translates to 119 inches at full size - right on the money for a 1961 Ventura (Bonneville is 123). I'll take your word for it Dave as you have the body. I truly hope that it is indeed lens distortion and not mis-proportioning on their part. This is another of my favorites of the '60's (not to mention my year ), and I really would like to get all the versions of this one that Moebius will offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrObsessive Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 On the subject of the wheels--------perhaps the lugs could be made smaller to suit more even spacing? Looking at the pics it appears that they might be a tad oversized, thus throwing off the spacing of the fins. Just wonderin' out loud here as I do like the execution of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangodart Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I'm pretty sure that these wheels will look terrific when painted and detailed, thanks for the pics !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1930fordpickup Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 On the subject of the wheels--------perhaps the lugs could be made smaller to suit more even spacing? Looking at the pics it appears that they might be a tad oversized, thus throwing off the spacing of the fins. Just wonderin' out loud here as I do like the execution of them! Bill I think you hit this right on the head with the looks of the wheel. Good eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exotics_Builder Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Appears to be quite a bit of lens distortion in that test shot pic, where the blue car is a nicely photographed profile. No parallax as this is a cropped image. However, the Camera lens is slightly higher than the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Goschke Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) I have a test shot body with bumpers sitting on a ruler right now - to these tired old eyes it is 213.5mm long - if you do the math that translates into a full sized car at 210 inches 61 Ventura is 210 inches over all length! (Bonneville is 218)The wheelbase of is 121mm - that translates to 119 inches at full size - right on the money for a 1961 Ventura (Bonneville is 123). I'm a bit late to this discussion but Dave's comment here is proof of the pudding that his measurements are correct and he's the only one with model in hand. So I'm happy to take his word for it. There's certainly a fair amount of distortion in the photos we're seeing of the assembled model. In at least one shot the length of the front also seems exaggerated, in the other, it doesn't, so we don't really have a lot of information to go on. The sticking point though is that the rear looks over-long in all the shots. So, is there something else off making it appear so? If I had the model in hand and the rear seemed a bit long, I'd want to confirm the correct length of the greenhouse, especially the length of the side window opening at the beltline and the overall length of the interior opening at the centerline from the base of the windshield to the base of the rear window. Then from the base of the rear window at the centerline to the edge of the decklid. Using a nice line illustration from the '61 Pontiac dealer album of color and upholstery here are some other points to ponder... Edited October 4, 2014 by John Goschke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Goschke Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) With regard to the wheels, I think if the engineering of the four-piece wheel assembly requires compromises in the proportions and relationships of the various design details to the point where the essential character of that trademark feature of the car is lost, I'd rather see the accurate proportions and details preserved so an authentic "look" is captured by simplifying the engineering. Would it be possible at this point to make the wheel rim and hub one piece with accurately space fins, smaller lug nuts, and perhaps an adjustment in proportion of the rim to hub? This would still enable the builder to paint and detail it correctly and easily if the plated hubcap and trim ring remained separate pieces. Edited October 4, 2014 by John Goschke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrObsessive Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Ya beat me to it John! I was going to comment after my one post about the possibility of the roof being too short, which would throw off the proportions of the tulip panel/trunk area......thus my "misproportioned" statement. Everything else would average out equal. We wouldn't know until we have the model in hand......guess we'll have to wait with bated breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Metzner Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Sorry, the measurement from back edge of windshield post to front edge of C pillar is correct within a tenth or two of a millimeter - the length of the roof panel itself appears to be correct. Photos here are the car we were able to photograph and measure. I'm having a very hard time finding that the proportions of our body are off. I can probably get the detail of the bottom of the C-pillar corrected. Not interested in going back to on piece wheel for the 8 lugs @ this time - I need to see if we can fix the pieces we already have.. As of today I have not had time to spend writing a review of the test shot for our factory - been too busy trying to get the Ford Pick-up trucks and 54 Hudson Hornets done as I have test shots for all those projects here now. I hope to be able to devote my undivided attention to the Pontiac test shots later this week.. Edited October 4, 2014 by Dave Metzner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrObsessive Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Thanks for the info Dave. As I've said, I'll have to wait until I have the body in 3D before I can pass any final judgement. Pics are nice as far as it goes, but all is not always as it seems when looking at photos. Also, I'm glad that you'll pass on the info about the belt line kickup. That 1:1 Ventura is a BEAUTIFUL car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Goschke Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Thanks, Dave & Co. for the care and attention you've given to this great subject. Sounds like you've gone above and beyond at this point addressing our concerns about the body proportions, admittedly, in my case anyway, based on less than conclusive info from three photos displaying distorted perspective. If the measurements are right along with the proportions and reference point relationships then I'm sure it's fine. Thanks also for considering the C-pillar fix and taking another look at the wheels. From what little I can see the kit seems to already be head and shoulders above AMT's rendition of the '62 Catalina and an improvement over the original '61 Bonneville annual kit. For what it's worth here's a scan of an original AMT '61 kit wheel (these were the "custom" option in that kit over the "stock" full wheel covers) on an apparently lopsided kit tire. It's pretty clear that they've sacrificed details of the rim's bolting flange to get the proportions right. Those and other compromises aside, these wheels capture quite well the character of the real item. The unfortunate thing is they are a real pain to detail, being all one piece. If Moebius can improve the appearance of their clever wheel assembly to more faithfully replicate the original 1/1 wheel, I could certainly see myself (and more than a few other guys) begging leftover sets from other builders and buying additional kits to retrofit my '59, '60, and '61 and '62 Bonnevilles! Dave, I really hope that this comes across less as nit-picking and more as constructive criticism. Thanks for everything you folks are doing to truly raise the bar in the 1/25th scale world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclescott58 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I'm sorry. But the more I look at those 4-piece 8 lug wheels, the less I like them. Is this a deal breaker in me buying the kit? No, but they just don't look right, or good to me. It's interesting, I've never compared other 8 lug model kit wheels to the real thing. Never thought to. They just looked right over all. The Moebuis ones, while I like the technical sophistication of them, allowing them to be more easily painted. The fin spacing and the lugs do not not look right. And shouldn't the hub caps have PONTIAC MOTOR DIVISION stamped in them? I hate to criticize anything Moebius does. They are still some of the best kits out there. This kit scares my a little bit. Great choice for subject matter. But, the wheels and the belt line at "C" pillar worry me that the kit may not be up to previous Moebius standards. Again, it will not stop me from buying the Ventura at least. But, I will not be as pleased with the kit as I have been with previous Moebius purchases. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Metzner Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 To me, It comes across as judgements being made based on a single photo of the test shot judgements made without any consideration of camera angle or camera lens distortion. So it seems some are ready to pronounce it wrong from one not very good photo before they ever lay hands on it. I just got the test shot back , about 2 hours ago, I was told that the test shot was only out of the display case once for a few minutes during the I-Hobby Show.. I have, thus far seen only one photo of the test shot from the show - that being of it sitting in the display case from an angle that you'll never see of a real car. I've measured the real car - I've measured the test shot I've compared the test shot to lots of photos of real cars and I can't find any significant errors in dimensions on the test shot. So I must wonder how anyone who doesn't have this actiual chunk of plastic in hand can know that the body is so wrong. I'll keep looking at it and try to get some additional dimensional info to check but I can't find the problem now..If I can find a significant problem, I'll do my best to get it corrected - just saying the significant error in the body size, shape, proportion eludes me @ his time! As for the 8 lug wheels I can see the error and I will do my best to make revisions to correct that - but the notion that we'll just go back to a one piece wheel right away is not an attractive option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Goschke Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Dave, between this thread and the I-hobby thread we've seen three pics of the model with admittedly distorted perspective at wacky angles, so, yes, not a lot of info to go on. Since you're saying it looks right "in-hand," speaking for myself, I'm good with that. I'll reserve further comment till we've got more info. Again, thanks for taking another look at the base of the C-pillar. As it stands now your rendition of this roof looks better than the five previous replicas I can think of. Get that little detail right and it's golden! Just hope it's not so accurate to my old 1/1 Catalina that it develops a crack there when the rear body mounts rot out! As for the wheels, believe me I don't want one piece wheels with the trim ring and and hubcap molded on like the AMT piece! Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Goschke Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 And shouldn't the hub caps have PONTIAC MOTOR DIVISION stamped in them? I might be wrong but I think that sort of fine engraving is frequently left off till later in the kit's development cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.